Build up on Lid


 
Well,

I also have the black tar-like build up on my lid. I run with a Guru with the top vent 100% open all the time, so I don't think it due to smoldering. I have use Kingsford, Rancher, Royal Oak Lump, Wicked Good Lump, and some other high end lumps and they all seem to do it. There have been times when I couldn't get the lid off without banging and prying. VERY FRUSTRATING !!!!

This stuff is like the hot asphalt that roofers use. Have any of you guys tried oven cleaner to remove this stuff. I tried scraping, but couldn't put a dent in this crap.

Al
 
Oven cleaner work but it still take some muscle to get the gunk off. I immediately cleaned things up after last nights cook. I will continue to do immediate cleanup until this thing gets figured out.
 
Originally posted by Al Silverman:
Well,

I also have the black tar-like build up on my lid. I run with a Guru with the top vent 100% open all the time, so I don't think it due to smoldering. I have use Kingsford, Rancher, Royal Oak Lump, Wicked Good Lump, and some other high end lumps and they all seem to do it. There have been times when I couldn't get the lid off without banging and prying. VERY FRUSTRATING !!!!

This stuff is like the hot asphalt that roofers use. Have any of you guys tried oven cleaner to remove this stuff. I tried scraping, but couldn't put a dent in this crap.

Al
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From all the descriptions stated about the "gooey substance" inlcuding yours, they all have the common characteristics of creosote and soot build up. Whether the fire is naturally drafted or a draft control device is used, it is still either creosote and/or soot build up! Which is caused by smoldering wood and coal in your cooker. See below for a better description.

Creosote is a gummy, foul smelling, corrosive and inflammable substance that, if no precautions are taken, will coat the insides of everything it passes through. It is formed when volatile gases given off in the burning process combine and condense on their way out of the chimney.
The gases leave the burning wood with the smoke. If the smoke is cooled below 250 degrees F, the gases liquefy, combine, and solidify, forming creosote. Creosote takes several forms, all bad. As a liquid, it can run down the insides of the cooker, oozing out of any openings. It can form a hard layer coating the inside cookers.

Soot is a fine black to brown powder which is formed through incomplete combustion. The process of partial combustion also makes soot slightly sticky, and it can be found clinging to the inside of your cookers as a result.
 
My lid looks like Larry Wolfe's lid. Sometimes I get little flakes that I just wipe out with a paper towel. I also get a little goop (that I am assuming is creosote) on the rim where the lid sits. But it wipes off EASILY with a paper towel. I would expect a "normal" build up as we are burning (I use Lump and wood chunks exclusively). Sometimes the lid sticks (A LITTLE). But, I can always get it off with a little tap or a little bit of muscle when I pull it off. I NEVER have had any goop as extensive as yours. When I am done with a cook I usually close all lower vents to see if I can save some coals in the ring for the next cook (I usually do). Maybe I should just let them burn after reading about the creosote. Maybe if you're doing the same, this may be part of the problem. Also, how green would the wood chunks have to be to cause this? Don't (some) people soak their wood chunks overnight before a cook (I know I do)? I don't know. I'm just trying to think of everything I can.
 
Originally posted by Keith Wilson:
...When I am done with a cook I usually close all lower vents to see if I can save some coals in the ring for the next cook (I usually do)....
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I usally close all the vents, top and bottom to put the fire out and cool down the smoker... this could be the culprit!
 
I've been keeping tabs on this thread hoping this problem isn't one I'll have. I've had my WSM for about 11 months with no gooey issues. The lid does stick, but a couple of taps with the side of my fist loosens it. I also close all my vents at the end of each cook, and I'd be very much surprised if most users don't. It seems to me that if closing vents after cooking was the source of the problem, everybody would be complaining. I'm wondering if a call to Weber's R&D or some such department might shed some light on this issue. I'd call but (LOL) I'm at work
BTW, good luck. I hope the reason is found soon.
 
i have no experiance with this as i don't have a wsm yet. but i'm really wondering if its just a combination of low temps and to much wood? although i use my kettle for smoking i rarely find any of these symptoms. the one time i did have a goo it was when i used to much wood. maybe someone who does alot of smoking could run a test and see what combinations cause this and ones that don't. sure would be interesting.
 
Originally posted by george curtis:
i have no experiance with this as i don't have a wsm yet. but i'm really wondering if its just a combination of low temps and to much wood? although i use my kettle for smoking i rarely find any of these symptoms. the one time i did have a goo it was when i used to much wood. maybe someone who does alot of smoking could run a test and see what combinations cause this and ones that don't. sure would be interesting.
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George,

I plan to run a burn this week with on Royal Oak lump - no smoke wood. I will definitely post my progress. But before I do that, I am going to clean my smoker to pristine condition. That will be a lot of work but worth it to me.
 
Here are a couple snaps of the lid and center section after my first two smokes. It's not as tarish looking in the day as it is as night - and after spraying it with Purple Power and going at it with a scotch brite pad it all came off easier than expected.

However, it is still very ooey-gooey compared to yours Larry, any ideas? If you look at the pic of the center section, it seems like all the gunk is from the water pan, up? I'd think if it was creosote it would be the entire inside, not just above the water pan?

Tony, how does this compare to your center section?

wsm060808_2.jpg


wsm060808_3.jpg
 
ooo, yuck. that is not good eats. i've tried differant things to clean the hard stuff off my kettle and i've just about decided that nothing works except oven cleaner, long soaks, copper wire scrubs and elbow grease. i also found that i need to rinse it out after several smokes and to give it a good cleaning several times a year. this is all after i finished cleaning one of my kettles that had several years of stuff on it about as tuff as the original coating of porcelin.
 
Yep, I got the gooey gunk too. I bought some Dawn Power Dissovler and am going to give that a shot this weekend. I'll post the results.
 
Originally posted by Branon S.:
Yep, I got the gooey gunk too. I bought some Dawn Power Dissovler and am going to give that a shot this weekend. I'll post the results.
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Chris A,

Do you have any input on this? You have the Weber contacts... or least more than we do. What are your thoughts and do you think Weber will have any answers?
 
Originally posted by Tony Hunter:
It doesn't sound like we are doing anything to cause this. Chris addresses some of this here. This sound like a common problem for the WSM as I don't have any issues with my offset.
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This may be common, but it's not normal. I've run my wsm for a few years now and I've not seen anything like the pictures in this thread. That asphalt looking stuff is down right nasty. I have from time to time got something that looks like that light brown stuff but it was no where near that pronounced and it basically wiped right off with a nylon brush. I do think the light brown stuff that kind of looks like a rust does have something to do with moisture because I've noticed it in the summer during high humidity. I don't use water in the water pan so that may be one reason I don't get so much of that.

Question - does everyone who gets this or worse use water in the pan?
 
Originally posted by Mitch Josey:
Here are a couple snaps of the lid and center section after my first two smokes. It's not as tarish looking in the day as it is as night - and after spraying it with Purple Power and going at it with a scotch brite pad it all came off easier than expected.

However, it is still very ooey-gooey compared to yours Larry, any ideas? If you look at the pic of the center section, it seems like all the gunk is from the water pan, up? I'd think if it was creosote it would be the entire inside, not just above the water pan?
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Mitch from your pictures I will bet you're using water in the pan, correct? Your problem is condensation mixed with soot. You can see where it's literally rolling down the lid and the sides. Does it look like that after every cook? What temps are you cooking at? How much meat do you typically have on it when it looks like that? That is NOT normal at all. Water should not cause that unless your temps are very very low. I haven't used water in the pan for years, but when I did I did not have a problem. I generally cooked then with water and now with sand or fire bricks at a dome temp in the 240º-260º range.

Tony and anyone else that is having this problem, are you all using water? If so this could end up being the root of the problem?

Just noticed that Jerry pointed out the water as well, I didn't see it prior to my post. So we're thinking the same way.....
 
What about the people who have used water for years and swear by it? Any input here? You have these problems ever? If so, what's the cure? Frequent cleaning? Just like to hear what you water folks have to say. I'm not endorsing the use/lack of water. Just curious.
 
Originally posted by Larry Wolfe:
Tony and anyone else that is having this problem, are you all using water? If so this could end up being the root of the problem?

Just noticed that Jerry pointed out the water as well, I didn't see it prior to my post. So we're thinking the same way.....
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Larry,

For the past year I used a foil-wrapped pan and had the problem. I recently switched back to water (just the last 2 cooks). Now, here is what I typically do whether I use water or not...

The meat is usually very cold going into the smoker. When the meat goes in, the smoker temp is very low - well below 200*. During the time when the meat is in and smoker is coming up to temp, smoke wood is roaring! The smoker does not actually come up to temp (240*-250* Lid Temp) for at least an hour and a half, sometimes a little longer. All vents are 100% open during this time. Once I get to 240*-250* in the lid, I close the bottom vents to 50% and I normally don't touch it again until the meat is ready to come off the smoker - that can be up to 16-20 hrs sometimes. When I come to remove the lid to pull the meat off, usually it is stuck and after prying it off, I get the tar-ish goo around the rim and lid. Nothing ever gets on the meat, it just runs down the inside of the lid, causing it to stick.

This is what I do every time.
 
Originally posted by Larry Wolfe:

Mitch from your pictures I will bet you're using water in the pan, correct? Your problem is condensation mixed with soot. You can see where it's literally rolling down the lid and the sides. Does it look like that after every cook? What temps are you cooking at? How much meat do you typically have on it when it looks like that? That is NOT normal at all. Water should not cause that unless your temps are very very low. I haven't used water in the pan for years, but when I did I did not have a problem. I generally cooked then with water and now with sand or fire bricks at a dome temp in the 240º-260º range.
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Larry, here's the scoop.

1) Yes I am using water in the pan
2) Yes it looks like this after every cook (only 2 cooks so far)
3) Once it gets up to temp (takes about ~1hr) I am cooking at 250-270 for ~4.5hrs
4) First cook was 1 rack of spares, 2nd cook was 1 rack of spares w/ 1/2 rack of BBs

After reading your post Tony, I wonder if the common denominator is the 1hr long rise to 250 cooking temp. It seems like our lighting methods are near identical. I have noticed for the first 1hr or so that the cooker gets up to temp, white smoke is billowing out of the top vent due to the smoke wood (which I thought was common on the initial light?).

Larry, you keep bringing up that very low temperature can be the culprit. Is it possible that most of this gooey forms in the hr long rise to cooking temp? After dumping the chimney starter, adding water and then the meat and placing the dome on top, she hovers at 100, creeps to 150, and then slowly makes her way to 200 and so on. All the while all bottom vents are open, once she gets to 220 I start adjusting.
 
Originally posted by Mitch Josey:

Larry, you keep bringing up that very low temperature can be the culprit. Is it possible that most of this gooey forms in the hr long rise to cooking temp? After dumping the chimney starter, adding water and then the meat and placing the dome on top, she hovers at 100, creeps to 150, and then slowly makes her way to 200 and so on. All the while all bottom vents are open, once she gets to 220 I start adjusting.
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Yes it could. Are you using hot or cold water when you fill up the pan? That would make a difference mixed with alot of cold meat.

If you have a good hold on controlling your temps, try switching to either a 1/3 pan of play sand or 2 firebricks in your water pan covered with foil. That will help the condensation/humidity problem in the cooker. The only thing different you should do is close the bottom vents down a little sooner. I close my bottom three down 75% when the dome temp gets to 200º. The temps will intially drop several degrees but will then slowly creep back up and settle in around 240º to 260º.
 
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