Anyone bought a gas range lately?


 
Truly sad news
In a way yes...in a way, perhaps a good thing. Too soon to tell. Having Haier and now Hisense in the US major appliance market at very least provides alternative choices to Samsung and LG...both of which make generally garbage appliances. TVs, phones, tablets....they lead the way. Appliances, not so much.
 
Sad because what used to be great high end products will now be reduced and cheapened, sold with a premium name and be only run of the mill like all the other "stuff" being foisted on us.
 
Sad because what used to be great high end products will now be reduced and cheapened, sold with a premium name and be only run of the mill like all the other "stuff" being foisted on us.
<shrug> Everything is getting designed & manufactured to last just past warranty. After that, replacement parts are significant revenue streams, if not outright replacement. Build something to last forever? End of revenue.
 
<shrug> Everything is getting designed & manufactured to last just past warranty. After that, replacement parts are significant revenue streams, if not outright replacement. Build something to last forever? End of revenue.
Now I'll weave in my opinion on big box stores.... Buying inexpensive appliances from a big box store is a double whammy. I think some folks have forgotten about the the locally owned appliance stores. I am blessed to have one just down the street. People who have years of experience with home appliances and will share their "wisdom". I distinctly remember buying our washer dryer there about 5 years ago. Looking at the latest front loader washers and the guy says "Yeah, they look cool, but there isn't one model that we don't have issues with. You'll save $300 bucks and be a lot happier with the old top loader". So, we saved money, and have had zero issues with that washer in 5 years.

A lot of folks can't afford the higher end heavy duty stuff built like a battleship, and need the affordable appliance price. This generally turns out OK, but buying from a locally owned retailer who can help you avoid the known bad selections and then SERVICE what they sell is KEY. Lowes, Home Depot, and Menards are all great places to go by commodity use up/throw away items but I'll never buy a durable good (such as a home appliance) from those places until the little stores take more than two hours to drive to. I feel the same way about bbq grills.

Thank god we still have some regulation in the home appliance market that requires UL or CE listing..... could you imagine if that was up to private industry? We'd have to quadruple fire department budgets across the whole country! If anyone reading this is in the market for a major home appliance, do yourself a favor, don't hit the easy button and go to a big box store. Look a little bit harder and find a family owned appliance store. There is no guarantee of a great experience, but I'm pretty sure of what you'll get at the Big Box*

Finally - there was the the day I learned that appliance manufacturers make special sku's which are "Value Engineered" for the big box stores. Thinner metal on stoves, different processors in TV's, etc... I heard this from a Sam's Club employee who was a former owner of a TV repair shop..... They sell as the same model # and everything but it's a different UPC code on the box. Manufacturers compete with other manufacturers for shelf space at the big box stores and want to give the big box guys a better price than the family owned joints.

Sorry if this is off putting to any big box store fans, or members who may work at these stores. It's just the way things are these days and I don't want offend anyone. I have on about 1 in 10 trips to a big box store received good advice from a store employee. There are some folks who shop there often enough to know the store like the back of their hand and better than most employees, and become "Fans" of the big box. If you're own of those folks.... please help me next time I'm there 🤣
 
Finally - there was the the day I learned that appliance manufacturers make special sku's which are "Value Engineered" for the big box stores. Thinner metal on stoves, different processors in TV's, etc... I heard this from a Sam's Club employee who was a former owner of a TV repair shop..... They sell as the same model # and everything but it's a different UPC code on the box. Manufacturers compete with other manufacturers for shelf space at the big box stores and want to give the big box guys a better price than the family owned joints.
This is far more than home appliances. I first ran across this with printers, when you simply could not find the equivalent product outside of the big box store: "Sorry, that's a different product number, we will not price match." The box contents may differ by only an extra CD, the main part of the product may be completely identical. Price match, cheaper components, there's a whole raft of reasons that a vendor may want a specific SKU to sell. Lawn equipment is the same way, the John Deere lawn tractor you get from Home Depot will not be the same that I can get from the dealership down the road. It's done because it pays.

We bought a new Bosch refrigerator a couple of years ago. I tried to buy it from the shop who'd be servicing it under warranty, and was willing to pay a premium. Bosch very specifically would not allow him to order it for sale to me.
 
This is far more than home appliances. I first ran across this with printers, when you simply could not find the equivalent product outside of the big box store: "Sorry, that's a different product number, we will not price match." The box contents may differ by only an extra CD, the main part of the product may be completely identical. Price match, cheaper components, there's a whole raft of reasons that a vendor may want a specific SKU to sell. Lawn equipment is the same way, the John Deere lawn tractor you get from Home Depot will not be the same that I can get from the dealership down the road. It's done because it pays.

We bought a new Bosch refrigerator a couple of years ago. I tried to buy it from the shop who'd be servicing it under warranty, and was willing to pay a premium. Bosch very specifically would not allow him to order it for sale to me.
Yeah...no. I'm not believing that manufacturers use inferior materials on the same model lines and model numbers that are sold by various retailers. I'm sure they make models specifically for certain big box retailers but they'll be different model numbers...mostly TVs.
I bought a John Deere lawnmower years ago from Home Depot, it lasted for years but ultimately I needed to get it serviced so I took it to a local John Deere dealer...owner confirmed it was the same as what they sold.
Where is the profitability in having to create completely different assembly lines with different machines, tooling, specifications, etc... to make identical models, but one uses lighter guage steel, cheaper rivets, etc...?
People have said the same thing about Weber grills. Sure Weber made a Spirit line sold exclusively at Home Depot but the differences were cosmetic...a PVC cabinet "cover" instead of a metal door...but the tradeoff was it included the Weber Gourmet cooking grates and a CI griddle insert. But for those two differences, the grills
were identical in every way to the ones the local Ace sold for $200-$300 more.
I believe that to be urban legend...at best.
 
When you think about it, why would a manufacturer make an inferior product to sell through the mass marketers? All that would do is reduce the opinion of the product in terms of value and reliability. Not a good marketing strategy to sell an inferior product though the retailers that sell the most of them..
 
When you think about it, why would a manufacturer make an inferior product to sell through the mass marketers? All that would do is reduce the opinion of the product in terms of value and reliability. Not a good marketing strategy to sell an inferior product though the retailers that sell the most of them..

It's all about driving costs out and down. It may make sense to tool up for thinner sheet metal if enough units are sold to cover the cost. It's all about the money, who can extract the most profit at each change of ownership from raw materials to end user. This has gotten so prevalent that in some high volume cases, pennies alone make it worth the effort.

I'm going to politely suggest this as light reading: https://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart I do see some confusion in the writer's words, they're confusing Simplicity and Snapper (two different brands.) I have to believe that one of a small businessperson's biggest nightmares is to come up with a product that rises on Walmart's radar, because if they don't sell it to Walmart, Walmart will simply send it overseas for manufacture.
 
Now I'll weave in my opinion on big box stores.... Buying inexpensive appliances from a big box store is a double whammy. I think some folks have forgotten about the the locally owned appliance stores. I am blessed to have one just down the street. People who have years of experience with home appliances and will share their "wisdom".
When we bought our house in 1990 we bought the appliances from a local big box discount store (American TV, for those of you in southern WI). We did save money (very important at the time) and the appliances lasted us for a number of years, but all of our subsequent appliances save one have come from the local store. Delivery, setup and removal (if applicable) are all included in the price and their schedule flexibility can't be beat; at least once they've delivered to us after supper.

Confession time: I bought a new ignitor and the oven's working again, so no new range at this time. I bought it at the aforementioned local store and while it cost more than an online purchase would've, the owner took the time to make sure I knew what I was doing.
 
It's all about driving costs out and down. It may make sense to tool up for thinner sheet metal if enough units are sold to cover the cost. It's all about the money, who can extract the most profit at each change of ownership from raw materials to end user. This has gotten so prevalent that in some high volume cases, pennies alone make it worth the effort.

I'm going to politely suggest this as light reading: https://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart I do see some confusion in the writer's words, they're confusing Simplicity and Snapper (two different brands.) I have to believe that one of a small businessperson's biggest nightmares is to come up with a product that rises on Walmart's radar, because if they don't sell it to Walmart, Walmart will simply send it overseas for manufacture.
I've read that story about Snapper Lawnmowers before. They no longer exist as the company in the story. They are Briggs&Stratton now. While it's an interesting, folksy kind of story, it's quite a stretch to say the underlying theme categorically applies to all or any major appliance manufacturers and certainly does not prove the products sold at big box retailers are inferior to identical products sold at smaller stores.
 
Brett - you are spot on with this comment. Natural gas does contain moisture that is released during combustion. I never thought about how it might effect baking/roasting/etc.... that moisture released during combustion contains latent heat which gets captured in condensing furnaces and boilers for higher heating efficiency. ON THE OTHER Hand, that moisture can be the enemy in non-condensing type heating equipment...
What you just said exceeds my scientific knowledge. Do you know if a car releases moisture out the tailpipe as well as drips of liquid water or white vapor?
 
Now I'll weave in my opinion on big box stores.... Buying inexpensive appliances from a big box store is a double whammy. I think some folks have forgotten about the the locally owned appliance stores. I am blessed to have one just down the street. People who have years of experience with home appliances and will share their "wisdom". I distinctly remember buying our washer dryer there about 5 years ago. Looking at the latest front loader washers and the guy says "Yeah, they look cool, but there isn't one model that we don't have issues with. You'll save $300 bucks and be a lot happier with the old top loader". So, we saved money, and have had zero issues with that washer in 5 years.

A lot of folks can't afford the higher end heavy duty stuff built like a battleship, and need the affordable appliance price. This generally turns out OK, but buying from a locally owned retailer who can help you avoid the known bad selections and then SERVICE what they sell is KEY. Lowes, Home Depot, and Menards are all great places to go by commodity use up/throw away items but I'll never buy a durable good (such as a home appliance) from those places until the little stores take more than two hours to drive to. I feel the same way about bbq grills.

Thank god we still have some regulation in the home appliance market that requires UL or CE listing..... could you imagine if that was up to private industry? We'd have to quadruple fire department budgets across the whole country! If anyone reading this is in the market for a major home appliance, do yourself a favor, don't hit the easy button and go to a big box store. Look a little bit harder and find a family owned appliance store. There is no guarantee of a great experience, but I'm pretty sure of what you'll get at the Big Box*

Finally - there was the the day I learned that appliance manufacturers make special sku's which are "Value Engineered" for the big box stores. Thinner metal on stoves, different processors in TV's, etc... I heard this from a Sam's Club employee who was a former owner of a TV repair shop..... They sell as the same model # and everything but it's a different UPC code on the box. Manufacturers compete with other manufacturers for shelf space at the big box stores and want to give the big box guys a better price than the family owned joints.

Sorry if this is off putting to any big box store fans, or members who may work at these stores. It's just the way things are these days and I don't want offend anyone. I have on about 1 in 10 trips to a big box store received good advice from a store employee. There are some folks who shop there often enough to know the store like the back of their hand and better than most employees, and become "Fans" of the big box. If you're own of those folks.... please help me next time I'm there 🤣
I don't want to disagree with any of this, but with a bit of effort you can take it home with you from the box store at 9:45pm, plug it in, and be back to scrambling eggs the very next day for breakfast. Granted some people's cars/expertise/home layout vary, but for me having instant repair was huge.
 
What you just said exceeds my scientific knowledge. Do you know if a car releases moisture out the tailpipe as well as drips of liquid water or white vapor?
The byproducts of perfect combustion are heat and water. That would be hydrogen plus oxygen to give heat and water. When you add carbon, you get heat + carbon dioxide (or monoxide) + water. Other elements added will give different end products. Water can be in the form as solid, liquid or gas. So the answer is yes.
 
This thread is cracking me up as winter threads usually do. I said I overpaid for the Electrolux Wave since they did not allow discounting dual fuel 10 years ago but dam the price of a dual fuel depending on which model you buy I guess I did not overpay. Its a niche item but if you have a baker in the house its not. Let me add got alot of mileage out of that stove over the years honey I need a new projector its $1.500 which of course I did not say thats $1,100 less than your stove cost no need. :)
 
A lot of this is total myth. Yes some companies (namely John Deere and Cub) license their name to another company (MTD) who makes the cheap big box versions that only vary by whether they're painted yellow or green. But in other things, i.e. appliances. This is not true. They may only vary by one has black knobs and one silver/chrome. The companies do this ONLY so they don't have to price match or that another "cannot" price match. But, if you look at the base model # of anything (computer, TV, appliance, etc) whether it came from an appliance/computer/garden store they are the same (save for the lawn/garden things with big names). They are not. So i.e. if you walk into Home Depot and buy say a Cub XT1 you will never find that same model in an actual IH dealer. Because IH did not make the XT1 MTD made it specifically under name license.
But if you hit up a Best Buy and purchase a GE range and find the exact same one at say Guler's Appliance Store, they WILL be the same exact thing except for something like a "CE" on the end of the model number. Again, this is only done for sake of price matching (or to prevent it). So a subtle change is made. Perhaps one includes a center griddle but no grate, one includes the grate but no griddle and one includes both.
It's marketing pure and simple. It is also a way for Cub, Deere, Husqvarna wat have you to get their "name" in front of more buyers without actually having to "make" the product.
 
Its also because they can say lowest advertised price and not have the FTC to worry about since they have their own specific model number that nobody else has.
 
I have no qualms buying appliances from Home Depot. I try to myself as often as possible when I can find a screaming deal in the scratch and dent inventory. I would however have much more concern about other items at Home Depot that are not so "brand name". I would never buy sod from Home Depot for a hundred reasons. Their grass seed is a huge con. I would have to be desperate to buy millwork, landscape fabric, or cheap paint. I would be suspicious of their tile's quality vs. tile dealers. I would be very suspicious of trim pre-primed with clay paint to bulk it up. Often their nursery stuff is fine, but beware. Read all the stickers and fine print on sets of battery powered tools until you understand exactly what is included - this is certainly a con job but they at least do tell you what is in the box. A set labeled "super mega deluxe" might only have one actual super mega deluxe thing in the whole set, and that might be an accessory.
 
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I have no qualms buying appliances from Home Depot. I try to myself as often as possible when I can find a screaming deal in the scratch and dent inventory. I would however have much more concern about other items at Home Depot that are not so "brand name". I would never buy sod from Home Depot for a hundred reasons. Their grass seed is a huge con. I would have to be desperate to buy millwork, landscape fabric, or cheap paint. I would be suspicious of their tile's quality vs. tile dealers. I would be very suspicious of trim pre-primed with clay paint to bulk it up. Often their nursery stuff is fine, but beware. Read all the stickers and fine print on sets of battery powered tools until you understand exactly what is included - this is certainly a con job but they at least do tell you what is in the box. A set labeled "super mega deluxe" might only have only actual super mega deluxe thing in the whole set, and that might be an accessory.
I've bought plenty of millwork and moldings from Home Depot. Have painted many rooms with Behr paints and stained our deck with Behr deck stain this past summer. Although my go to stain is usually Olympic Maximum.
Have a full array of Ryobi 1+ tools as well as a Ryobi miter saw. Never a problem with any of them.
Oh, and bought a stacking washer/dryer at HD...a GE(Haier)...all good.
 

 

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