After 1st smoke in WSM--H2O in pan??

[A Powell]

Last week, I did first smoke in WSM--pork butt--one 9#er. I was, admittedly experimenting (it was for my brothers' b-days and it turned out fine) and while I know what I'm doing with 22.5 OTG kettle and butts (I should, for all butts I've smoked, indirect but always using a little water in aluminum pan underneath and generally without foiling them), y'all, I think I "messed up" with the WSM by using water. Had to foil the butt. It took for freakin'ever and used WAY too much charcoal--K, regular, MM--so, can I ditch the water and just foil the pan to get higher temps and good bark like I do in the kettle? Because that was a trial run for Thanksgiving--doing a 12 lb. bird in kettle, have 3 3# chuckies for top rack of WSM in freezer--nice thick marbled ones--and couple 8-9# p.butts in lower. I don't brine p.butts, do inject, and will likely inject chuck roasts with entirely different injection, different rub.

I dunno about beef drippin' onto pork, maybe one of each on each rack above each of same, but CAN I DO THIS WITHOUT WATER IN PAN at HH? How high should I go for an all night cook with that much meat and no water in pan? I don't care if Mr. Mav wakes me, but have been scared to use smoker w/o water in pan. Now, I'm afraid TO use water in it! All I have is a fire brick if I need to maintain temps but couldn't I do that, IF I catch at say 325, and use vents without fire brick, without water, just foiled pan?

It wasn't that cold or that windy but dang that Tsunami bowl in the new Weber 18.5 with almost a gallon+, steady, gallon+, refilling hot water, ate cc. Any suggestions--I have a Brinkmann charcoal pan but I modded it with holes in side for air to coals, not to much avail--but would plugging those drilled holes with tin foil and foiling whole thing help too? Or just go with new BIG new bowl with inside foiled, no water? What temp, about, should I catch it with 25#'s meat in WSM? (Dear gawd, how many questions was that?!) Thanks! Any ideas would be appreciated!

 

[Tim Quon]

Wow! Where to start. You don't mention how long or how much fuel you used so its hard to give a good answer. Generally, PP can take between 1 1/2 to 2 hours per pound. Most of my PP is in the 1 1/2 hour range. I like to do my PP low & slow.

One of my last PP cooks I did five 10 lbs butts using a empty foiled water pan with a couple of foil wrapped fire bricks. Using my 22.5, I loaded 21.5 lbs of briquettes. started MM. and smoked between 225-250. The temps held steady for about 11 to 12 hours. Added about 50 extra briquette to maintain my temps. The butts were tender and ready at about the 15 to 16 hour mark. The time is just a guideline. The meat is ready when its ready.

I read at one point you mention temps of 325. Just realize that higher temps equals higher fuel consumption. Can't get around that.

If you want to try a quick cook PP try the recipe in the "cooking section" There are pros & cons to this method.

Cheers

 

[A Powell]

Thanks, Tim! I could have been more specific with fuel and vents on that last cook. Also, I've heard and witnessed that the 22.5 WSM seems to want to run a little hotter than the 18.5. For that one butt, I put a charcoal chimney loaded of unlit coals and tried the bottom-cut-out-coffee can MM with another chimney. Just think am gonna skip that part next time. Just toss another chimney of lit coals on unlit. I just did generous loads in chimney, so probably over 100 K coals each, unlit and lit to begin. Kept vents open to get going but really didn't see rise in temps like would have expected with it new. It's in round. Temps only went to 250 (then dropped) on upper grate, where butt was, vents 100%. I double-checked with frier thermo in top vent. Yep. Mav and the other therm were less than 5 degrees off. Coals were burning really fast, so when got to 215, I added another chimney mid-way. I really think it was the water pan. And could have had bad batch of K. Been known to happen. Gonna try some Stubb's and see if that helps. I think this was operator error.

I may try it without water in pan or fire brick for next cook on Friday afternoon before bassetball game (GO HEELS!)with whole chicken. But that's not much of test, vis a vis butts, as I'll use less coals, unlit, for chicken with anticipation of no water in pan, creating a rise in temps. Just wondering where to catch the temps with vents 100, before I start clamping down on vents. But this is about experimentation with temp control on WSM. I love low'n slow but 18 hours for one butt is a tad much "slow." Might throw on couple racks of spares, top grate, just to see. And if can't control WSM temps, get 'em steady with dampers, then I'll know to throw my lonesome fire brick in there next time.

I suppose MY REAL QUESTION (contrasted with fake question?) without water, nothing in the tsunami bowl--it's huge--how high should I let temps get before clamping down on bottom vents if I want the entire cook to hang at at least 275?

And my LAST question, is, with those holes I drilled--not terribly large--in Brinkmann charcoal pan--just on two opposing sides--could I just foil inside and out of THAT bowl, in order to get more fuel in smoker and have some distance between coals and non-water water pan? Have plugged holes with HD, folded and crimped, and for that matter, would like to save some foil by not using on outside of Brinkmann pan. I know some folks that don't use a pan at all--in an open pit, no water bowl--but flare ups and cleaning grease out of charcoal bowl? Naw.

So two questions: 1. where to catch the temps if I want to maintain 275 or 300 for majority of long cook in 18.5 WSM and 2. will HD foil work to plug holes in sides of Brinkmann charcoal pan that I modded? I can hardly see buying another B-mann charcoal pan, when the entire smoker is about twice cost of the charcoal pan. A deep dish aluminum pie pan would catch drippings just fine, as the holes are more up side of pan. Thanks for responding! And will check out PP section for higher temps on clods of meat with lots of fat.

 

[Lew Newby]

First, I cooked two 8 pounders and two 9# butts in July at 225, with water, and the 9 pounders took 20 hours so your time is normal for the temp. On a different cook I got good results by not using water, 265 degrees, and finished a 7.5# butt in 10 hours.

I got my 18.5" in May and I have cooked with and without water to check out both techniques. To cook at 275 and above I just foil my Brinkmann pan and put a foiled clay saucer on top of the pan. You can ball up some foil and put it inside the pan to act as a heat sink if you don't want to use a saucer. I'll bet you could use a fire brick inside the water pan as a heat sink. Here's one, of many, threads on foiling.

I use the Brinkmann pan because of the clearance between the bottom of the pan and the charcoal. Just wrap it in foil and don't worry about holes in it.

Since you're looking for 275 to 300 I would take it up to 275 with the vents full open and then close them down to 25% and see what you get. Keep the top vent 100% open. I've found that when I'm cooking near 275 and remove the lid to do something the temp can shoot up to over 300 after I replace the lid. I close the bottom vents and catch the temp when it gets back to where I want it. The meat comes out fine.

 

[Dave Russell]

Specific temp and vent suggestions really come down to your particular wsm, and like others testify, mine started running cooler after just a few smokes.

Regardless of temps and whether you use water in the pan though, the wsm is particularly slow, the little 18.5" especially, with or without water. Actually, to be perfectly candid, you might've been better served with the big 26.75" kettle since you're interested in HH, shorter cooks, and saving charcoal. That's my next cooker for HH poultry, brisket, and back ribs....as well as for general UNcrowded grilling.

Anyway, as to how MY wsm generally runs, I've pretty much given up on targeting anything higher than 250* with water in the pan. That's ok though, since I rather like bbq-ing at around that temp, at least pork butts and spares. I skip water in the pan for targeting 275*, and if I want 300* or anything higher I have to crack the door.

 

[A Powell]

Thanks guys! Lew, am gonna give that entire process a shot. I have that 22.5 kettle, for indirect down so well, but, was not the case when first got it, either. And yeah, I can do 3 8# pork butts on it at one time, using rails and last summer got 3, NICE ones in cooler, under 10 hours.

BUT I know the WSM is a smoker and not normally going to reach those temps. Therefore, Lew, am gonna use the Brinkmann pan, go with nothing aside from foiling it. Got the Carrier Classic (go Heels!)kicking off basketball season on Veterans Day this Friday night; some Vet buddies are coming over; I called them tonight in grocery store and said, "How's about chicken quarters?" On sale. If I brine, then marinade--I like the Cornell marinade a lot--then rub, I have some cushion against high heat, if it'll get there. I think using Lew's suggestions, aside from no clay saucer, as everybody in stores has sent theirs back until spring, I might take it to 325, and then dial down to 25%, and shoot for 300 for those quarters. Use upside down grate off 18.5 OTS to hold more chicken on top of top grate. I might even go higher temps: THANK YOU! You've given me the most concise beginning ideas that I can at least work with, using an inexpensive meat--I don't want to mess it up--but chicken needs higher temps (and if I do crispy critter it, it doesn't break the bank). Just want to see how high the 18.5 will go. It's really tight now, nothing out of round, and at least the water + butt put some decent gunk on it. (Also, one of my brothers came over tonight after he got back from OBX over long weekend b-day gift to him, just to tell me how much he loved that PP. He was a butcher for years and can cook some meat. My other brother sent me two emails and must've sent one to my baby bro, as the said baby bro sent me an email today, putting in a request for brisket for his b-day in May) Had it not been for fuel consumption, I'd not have minded the time.

So am going to try to get those temps up and stop them with just a foiled pan. I've read that a lot of folks don't use any pan with chicken but I dunno. Seems like cleaning the grease outta charcoal bowl would be a "painful" experience with that technique.

Again, thank you so VERY much. (I've heard, close two vents at bottom, leave one 100%, then open the other two to 50--seems like equal opening, closing down, at least until I get a better handle on this thing, is just smarter. And like it that even with some holes can use foiled Brinkmann, which gives me lots more room for fuel, if needed, just to get temps up to "play" with it. Academy does have Brinkmann charcoal pans but the shipping is more than the pans! In spring, Ace, HDepot, others will probably have them for sale, separately. Again, thanks!

 

[Mike P.]

A Powell, Your in the mist of Greatness with the Folks above input. I have 5 smokes with the Mighty 18.5. But I am also a Commercial HVAC guy and know how Mother Nature can affect people and objects. The 1st thing I consider is Outdoor ambient conditions. What is wind speed? What are low and high temps in NC this time of year? These are considerations that will affect any overnight smoke and direct sunlight will directly affect daytime smokes.

Just a smoking rookie's observations and something to consider. I've noticed since being a member of this fine site that a lot of the input is from folks who consider their particular weather "the Norm" from which they relate their experiences.

Just my .02

Good Luck!

 

[A Powell]

Thanks, Mike! I know that folks on here have been immensely helpful: we've had a VERY unstable fall in the foothills of NC. Cold and windy for 3 days or warm (80's?) and windless for 3 days and some relatively warm rain with high winds--thunder?? I lived in Austin for 10 years; I imagine that in Shreveport, you guys experience weather impacted by Gulf storms or fronts. In Austin, blue northers used to be . . . very strange in fall.

I also fish: NOBODY knows where the crappie are on the same lake around here! Some shallow, some are deep, some have decided to fast for the winter?? Having a boat gives me a pretty good indication of what to expect in spring and fall: the unexpected.

Here, really up/down weather. And most of that comes from Atlantic coast or Ohio Valley . . . and sometimes from south, so . . . yeah. Last smoke, I got the WSM up to temp as Lew suggested but w/o anything in foiled Brinkmann pan, windy and chilly, but used vents nearly shut and it ran steady at 280-300 even with wind for about 16 hours. Had to add some coals at 12, but used a method of tightly packing in unlit layers of Kblue and then going with a full chimney lit of Stubbs. Lotta coals but worked.

This time of year, I think day v night variations are impacting me more than anything--THAT's what I'm trying to time and prepare to adjust for. Last cook was 20 lbs. butt and chuck roast as trial run for Thanksgiving and it came out wonderfully. Downdrafts from low pressure also effect smoking.

You're absolutely right! So my plan (for Thanksgiving at least) is to do a coin toss? but try to repeat last smoke in unstable ambient conditions. I'm smoking ahead for reheats, and after pulling those, getting brined, injected turkey on 22.5--no smoke--my 22.5 has enough apple/pecan to lend "odor of."

Thanks! One reason I put garage door handles on WSM--if ya gotta, ya gotta--to add lit fuel, maybe LOTS of it, but if not using water in pan, not much of hassle. (Yes, I got brave and just tried that, even though didn't have to. No burns, thankfully!) Again, thank you!

 

[Tom Barineau]

A--Go to Home Depot and grab a clay saucer (I think 14") out of the lawn and garden department. It should nest nicely in the 18.5 WSM water pan. I use no water. Just cover the saucer with a couple of layers of HD foil and place it in the pan. Myself, after learning that foil leaks, I put a disposable round foil pizza pan on top of the foil. I've tried water and sand over the years, but the saucer is the easiest in my opinion.

 

[A Powell]

Hiya Tom!

Yeah--I got the smoker end of October--and because I've lurked on this site, looked for one when bought garage door handles, when ordered smoker(per this site), at Lowe's, HD, and Ace. Everybody had "sold out." Now, while we know that this probably isn't true--shipped stuff back to warehouses until spring--there were none. So, I think am going without anything in pan for now, like this for Thanksgiving gonzo cook, as Josh did: Josh's butt cook. Will be purchasing saucer soon as they have them in spring: boy, missin' Austin weather!

 

[Tom Barineau]

Yep, those guys are kinda bad about that! If you have a decent size locally owned nursery/garden enter, you might get lucky and catch one there.

 

[Mike P.]

A Powell, Please post results of your Thanksgiving smoke without water in the pan. I've not tried it yet.

Now about tha Fishn'

We are in a 100 year drought here with lake and water levels 4 to 8 feet below average pool. Most of Texas, Oklahoma, and northern Louisiana are affected. Down here in the swamp, we are seeing stumps exposed that have not been in air since 1956. A lot of outboard motors lower units getting damaged. Hope you guys are fairing better as far as water levels go. Hmmm, Have you considered smoked crappie?

Good Luck with your Smoke!

 

[A Powell]

Mike, I'll let ya know. Oh, and name's Ann.

A little "anxious" about 15 lb. chuck roasts (2 more added for total of 5 3lbers.) and 16 lbs. pork butts (2). OKAY, then. But the chicken was great--temps got up to 350 and I backed to 300 w/only foiled Brinkmann. Stayed there but then it wasn't windy, was sunny, not warm, but didn't get "cold" until later in evening. Good chix quarters and tribute to active duty and Vets. Also, Heels won, so it's all good!

Living in Austin temps, I got used to heat. Luuuuuv it. Less than thrilled as it's 24 as we speak--outside--by wood stove, we're toasty: dogs are, "Really I don't gotta go no more tonight, Mama." (One cat is whispering to them and motioning to his litter box.) "They" say lows Sunday night will be in 50's? Then, rain. So this Thanksgiving cook, to be reheated, is happening in carport. Over period of 3 days. All rain.

Rainfall is certainly not ya'll's problem. I really hope that changes. But showed somewhere on t.v. people fishing the drought in Northern LA--I wasn't paying that much attention but wondered if folks were throwing cast nets onto trapped fish--not to say I wouldn't maybe do that, some, because without water, ya know, they die. Looks like maybe Central Texas is only place not getting completely parched, but it usually gets "cold," rains in fall, HARD, and then it's back to warm/dry. I really do hope you guys get some rain.

Indeed, I have smoked crappie on the ECB. And am gonna stick with peanut oil, little bit of egg, flour, Sweet Betsy! However, smoked is about only way I like trout. I get hiss-boos on this but I think trout taste a bit like bottled water: got to really "doctor" 'em up for flavor. Not gonna mess up anymore crappie on a smoker. OR catfish--yeah--big-big mistake, imo; if someone would like to show me the error of m'ways, be glad to listen. I KNOW somebody on this site has done it--had to--but why heat a fry pan/pot on a smoker or grill? (Now watch you come up with your amazing crappie recipe on smoker; am all ears for that crappie that beats the grease!)

Considering rain/grease, saw/heard something interesting in Lowe's other day: these guys had bought about 4 turkey frier kits. Talking about 20 lb. turkeys. I know fried turkey is good. But then I saw the forecast and just wondered how they'd pull that off in rain, unless they had a cathedral ceiling garage. Invariably every Thanksgiving somebody about blows up their house around here. "Eh, reckon we'll have to do it under the tarp, be awi'ght. Get the ole ladies to stand on some ladders and holt it up."?! "Breaking News . . ." Be looking for that, Mike. Will let you know how the smoke with foiled pan goes.

 

[Stuart S]

Ann, it was about the same temperature here in Ottawa today, so I turned to my wife and said "I guess it's time to stop wearing our spring jackets, hey"?

In all seriousness, you might want to look into an automatic temp controller if the weather changes are affecting your cooks. I have a DigiQ II and my temps are always rock solid, regardless of the weather.

 

[A Powell]

Stuart, thanks! I've considered DigiQ II--now the DX. But with Pit Viper 10 CFM Blower Fan + "Standard Weber Fan Mounting Adapter" roaring in at $272 USD? Wow. I may still bite bullet and do it: Merry Christmas to me? Then, last winter, after the crazy fall, per usual, it settled down. COLD, but predictably so. Am not going to ask you more questions but will put any I have in ATCSystems, lest I get off topic too much.

But since I have, again thank you! My oldest younger bro's wife is from near Ottawa. Her dad was farmer. She goes bonkers in summers here. "Hot!" No, try Austin for hot.

Was in Montreal this past summer for a week--old friend, proff, "Mon-pat," works with Club Med (or hangs out and pretends to work)--he retired from "UNC System," so, good for him! It was pretty warm, actually. But I kept saying, "Il fait froid" and then would add some totally irrelevant line from Edith Piaf, just to confuse people. Also taught S. Appalachian colloquialisms indicating cold for 'em. "Airish" was kinda fun to hear 'em say!

I know it's cold there: spent a winter with some friends, McMaster grads, in Hamilton. Last summer kept saying, "I wanna go to Ottawa." And he's, "We MUST" and we never got around to it. Next time, YES. I guess y'all
brought out the jeans today? Thanks for tip, Stuart!

 

[Stuart S]

I was on the fence about the ATC when I got my WSM...but I've never looked back since I got it. Sealed off all bottom vents and the door with high heat tape and the temp in my cooker is exactly what I want it to be regardless of wind, external temp etc...all while I'm sitting on the couch watching tv, or sleeping on overnight cooks!

Ottawa is a great city...if you ever make it up here let me know! We do get cold, -40 in the dead of winter, but we also get heat in the summer. I posted a screen cap this summer where it was 115 in August. Add in the 9 feet of average snowfall per season and it does make for some crazy variations in weather, and get pretty miserable.

I'm in ATX every couple of months and it sure does get "warm" there in the summer. Especially this summer. It's a fantastic city though...sooo much good BBQ!

 

[A Powell]

Stuart, from Ottawa to Austin . . . I hope you have some other stops to incrementally prep you for that nice summer swelter!

As for ATC systems; yes, I want to get one. Just for loopy fall weather here. And spring.

It was 75 today, if not warmer (24F night before last)?, while I smoked 2 10lb. butts and 5 3+lb. chuckies, most of those smoked indirect on 22.5 OTG. But raining, set up in carport.

Started actual meat cook at 6am, WSM at 350 with just foiled pan. Butts over butts and chuck over chuck. Finished it up around 5:30--meat foiled in coolers until about 7:30 Meat brought smoker temp down to 275 and controlling vents it held. Could be that packing Kblue idea that Josh did in link I posted above. Maybe it's just my smoker, but I had better heat control without water in the pan. Added no more coals, just good tight stack of 3 layers + one lit chimney. Apple and pecan wood chunks from some felling/drying we did.

What I did notice with no pan was very little shrinkage of the butts and chucks. Not much pulling--fell apart. My imagination often writes a check that my body finds difficult to cash: after resting and pulling that meat, I could hardly walk. Then fell asleep on sofa after I limped to shower. I have a few old sports' injuries and even if I run a couple miles per day, they still flare.

THAT would be my justification for ATC system. Less stress, checking for temp adjustments. I couldn't believe it was holding steady, since everybody has talked about fluctuations with no water or saucer. So kept checking the probes by deep fry therm.

"Oh am asleep on couch with ice melted in tea?" is one reason I'm up. The other is am hoping to sleep in a little later as got that turkey to cook tomorrow. On 22.5. No smoke--enough smoke on that grill bowl and lid--going high-heat on it as well. Brined, shouldn't take more than four hours, tops, but shall see.

I hope these reheats go well--lots of juicy good stuff in p.butts. Have done a few reheats and they turn out okay with some finishing "jus". Never sliced and done a turkey that way but with enough butter and chicken stock, all things are possible.

Would really like to visit Ottawa. Hate missed it last summer. You have a seriously powerful constitution or Ottawa summers are consistently 115 in order to go from there to Austin in summer. Band was on tour summer/fall of 1988. We did the van-thing, east-coast tour and up, to come back down into NYC to play New Music Seminar. I think it was Syracuse, we woke up one morning and none of us could talk--strep throat or something. Find clinic, get antibiotics. Lemons and honey bears sitting on amps.

And yes, Austin has some excellent Q joints. And did, for sure when ole man Stubb was alive. Ya know ya in Qing country when every rental has a pit built in back. I think better bbq is around Kyle, Driftwood--Lockhart has a rep but not eaten there. All within few minutes of Central Austin.

Here's hoping for something not a meteorite with legs tomorrow afternoon. Thanks!

 

[A Powell]

Results from no water in pan: KILLER! Brinkmann charcoal pan, foiled, packed tight with several layers of K-blue, one Weber chimney full-tilt and lit; it held at 300-350 for at least 10 hours, 35 or so ambient temps, vents at 25% after 1 hour. Headed for 400 but stopped it. Thanks so much. 30 lbs. chuck, 30 lbs. pork butt, excellent! Used a kettle, idirect for some chuck but WSM was loaded. Still held temps. Don't think I'll be tempted to fill the "tsunami" bowl again. Thank you all so very much!!