A First Look (for me) at GrillGrates...
- Thread starter Jon Tofte
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Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Bruce,
It is only 20 ga. They had thicker, but the price starts going up. I figured that it would just be resting on the edges of the grill and bearing no weight at all. Hopefully it will be sufficient. I put more effort into finding a sheet with holes that weren't too small. I think that is what Charbroil got wrong and GrillGrates got right. It seems like it does work well, but if they clog up too easily it will quickly become a frustration. That is what my brother-in-law found even though he loved how his Charbroil infrared grilled when it wasn't clogged up.
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Thanks for the thoughts. As for size of the holes I think about 1/8th to 3/16th would do the trick. I think 20ga would do the trick also. If you go to a Home Depot and look at the "emitter" (that's what NexGrill and CharBroil call it) on a NexGRill IR grill you'll see the sheet and I believe it to be about 20ga with about those size holes. Could maybe even get away with a frame work and than stainless steel screen. I think there is a couple different ways for achieving this.
I'd be doing this right now but I just have too much on the plate at home and with "themixerdoc" business. One on the bench for a client and 2 production machines started and waiting in the wings. One for resale and one for a gift to oldest daughter
I'd be doing this right now but I just have too much on the plate at home and with "themixerdoc" business. One on the bench for a client and 2 production machines started and waiting in the wings. One for resale and one for a gift to oldest daughter
MikeCantell
TVWBB Pro
Put some tarnished silverware into a aluminum pan and cover with water,ck back in about 30 minutes,seen that done at a pots/pans party years ago,not sure what might gas off if heated 500-800 degree with aluminum
Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Aluminum, Grill Safety & GrillGrates
If we have to be worried about gas being released from hot aluminum then we need to junk our Weber grills...cast aluminum fireboxes. And then there is the Q that has a cast aluminum lid to boot!
I did a little reading, and here are some quotes:
FROM THE GRILLGRATES WEBSITE:
GrillGrates are made from hard anodized aluminum- is that safe to cook on?
Hard anodized aluminum is perfectly safe to cook on.
This section was gleaned from studies by University of Clemson: Exposures to aluminum through food can occur when aluminum leaches or otherwise dissolves from the cookware into the food. Leaching is most likely when the foods being cooked or stored are highly basic (like baking soda) or highly acidic (like tomato sauce, lemon juice, oranges, or vinegar). For example, tomato sauce has been shown to contain 3-6 mg aluminum (per 100 g serving) after cooking in aluminum pans, which translates into about one-tenth of the typical daily intake. This leaching of aluminum with acidic foods does not happen with aluminum cookware that is anodized, or electro-chemically processed to seal the aluminum in the cookware. Clemson University Extension’s Home and Garden Information Center tested different cookware types, and found anodized aluminum cookware to be safe.
Anodized materials have an extremely long life span. Anodized surfaces do not chip or peel. Anodized aluminum is used to protect satellites from the harsh environment of space, to harden automotive racing parts against friction and heat, as well as for display cases, coolers, and grills for the food industry.
OK, I agree this is hardly an unbiased source. So here is what Meathead at Amazing Ribs.com says:
Finally, let me allay any concerns you may have about aluminum. Here's a quote from Alzheimers.org's page on myths: "During the 1960s and 1970s, aluminum emerged as a possible suspect in Alzheimer's. This suspicion led to concern about exposure to aluminum through everyday sources such as pots and pans, beverage cans, antacids and antiperspirants. Since then, studies have failed to confirm any role for aluminum in causing Alzheimer's. Experts today focus on other areas of research, and few believe that everyday sources of aluminum pose any threat." Aluminum is everywhere, it is the third most abundant element on the planet. Studies always rate aluminum intake from cookware far down the list, behind dust, drinking water, antacids, antiperspirants, buffered aspirin, occupational sources, etc. And the healthy human body has the capacity for excreting what very small levels end up in the body. The manufacturer of GrillGrates claims that the anodizing process hardens the aluminum in GrillGrates making them harder than any steel.
If you own a charcoal grill, toss them on top of the factory grates when you have thin or small foods but take them off when you want to get a dark sear on a steak. If you own a pellet smoker, I recommend them for improving the surface color of your foods. If you own a gas grill, I cannot recommend GrillGrates more enthusiastically as a replacement for your factory grates or on top of your factory grates for all your cooking.
I would give more credence to what Alzheimers.org says, and I would like to believe that Meathead cares at least some. He certainly knows a lot about grilling, so his enthusiastic recommendation of GrillGrates for gas grills can't be casually dismissed.
If we have to be worried about gas being released from hot aluminum then we need to junk our Weber grills...cast aluminum fireboxes. And then there is the Q that has a cast aluminum lid to boot!
I did a little reading, and here are some quotes:
FROM THE GRILLGRATES WEBSITE:
GrillGrates are made from hard anodized aluminum- is that safe to cook on?
Hard anodized aluminum is perfectly safe to cook on.
This section was gleaned from studies by University of Clemson: Exposures to aluminum through food can occur when aluminum leaches or otherwise dissolves from the cookware into the food. Leaching is most likely when the foods being cooked or stored are highly basic (like baking soda) or highly acidic (like tomato sauce, lemon juice, oranges, or vinegar). For example, tomato sauce has been shown to contain 3-6 mg aluminum (per 100 g serving) after cooking in aluminum pans, which translates into about one-tenth of the typical daily intake. This leaching of aluminum with acidic foods does not happen with aluminum cookware that is anodized, or electro-chemically processed to seal the aluminum in the cookware. Clemson University Extension’s Home and Garden Information Center tested different cookware types, and found anodized aluminum cookware to be safe.
Anodized materials have an extremely long life span. Anodized surfaces do not chip or peel. Anodized aluminum is used to protect satellites from the harsh environment of space, to harden automotive racing parts against friction and heat, as well as for display cases, coolers, and grills for the food industry.
OK, I agree this is hardly an unbiased source. So here is what Meathead at Amazing Ribs.com says:
Finally, let me allay any concerns you may have about aluminum. Here's a quote from Alzheimers.org's page on myths: "During the 1960s and 1970s, aluminum emerged as a possible suspect in Alzheimer's. This suspicion led to concern about exposure to aluminum through everyday sources such as pots and pans, beverage cans, antacids and antiperspirants. Since then, studies have failed to confirm any role for aluminum in causing Alzheimer's. Experts today focus on other areas of research, and few believe that everyday sources of aluminum pose any threat." Aluminum is everywhere, it is the third most abundant element on the planet. Studies always rate aluminum intake from cookware far down the list, behind dust, drinking water, antacids, antiperspirants, buffered aspirin, occupational sources, etc. And the healthy human body has the capacity for excreting what very small levels end up in the body. The manufacturer of GrillGrates claims that the anodizing process hardens the aluminum in GrillGrates making them harder than any steel.
If you own a charcoal grill, toss them on top of the factory grates when you have thin or small foods but take them off when you want to get a dark sear on a steak. If you own a pellet smoker, I recommend them for improving the surface color of your foods. If you own a gas grill, I cannot recommend GrillGrates more enthusiastically as a replacement for your factory grates or on top of your factory grates for all your cooking.
I would give more credence to what Alzheimers.org says, and I would like to believe that Meathead cares at least some. He certainly knows a lot about grilling, so his enthusiastic recommendation of GrillGrates for gas grills can't be casually dismissed.
THyde
TVWBB Guru
Alzheimer's is caused by the formation of amyloid plaques in the brain. It's basically a lot like slow cooking. The proteins in the brain unravel slowly, and gobble together in a way that they are not supposed to be formed. They become amyloids, or intermeshed. Proteins have a particular structure, think of it like the yarn in the core of a baseball, tightly wound and perfectly shaped. When they become amyloid, they unravel, like unraveling the yarn in a baseball, but then they mix with other unraveled baseballs and get all tangled up. This causes plaques in the brain. It is unlikely to be caused by aluminum, more likely a cellular issue.
Bruce
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
I was at Home Depot today and checked out some of the grills. I opened this Nexgrill and saw this:
Is that their version of the IR plates? I realize those are supposed to go under the cooking grates, but for some reason, the grates were under this...don't know if some customer did it or they just thought it was supposed to be that way.
Anyway, the grill felt like a tin can. Elcheapo. But, with all that stainless shining back at you, it sure catches the eye which is what they are all about these days.
Is that their version of the IR plates? I realize those are supposed to go under the cooking grates, but for some reason, the grates were under this...don't know if some customer did it or they just thought it was supposed to be that way.
Anyway, the grill felt like a tin can. Elcheapo. But, with all that stainless shining back at you, it sure catches the eye which is what they are all about these days.
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Silverware is NOT aluminum. It is as it's name suggests "silver" and silver is not meant for high heat use. There is no "off gassing" from the aluminum. The issue is leaching from actual food contact
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Aluminum cans are coated with a plastic coating on the inside. As for whether you want to believe one web site or another here is where I come from on it. Patients with Alzheimer's and diseases like my mom had (Lewis Body Dementia) have the scans of their brains "light" up on an X-Ray scan from metal deposits in their brains. If you've even looked at what happens inside an aluminum pan after cooking something even slightly acidic and you've had 2 people VERY close in your life die from these horrid deaths you tend to pay attention to these small details. I'm old enough to remember when smoking was considered to be "good" for you too. We all know where that went. Tobacco companies (like the GG company) would indicate "no solid evidence blah blah blah" they would get some type of medical organization to back them up also or back XYZ brand as best for you.
So you guys can all "poke fun" at my concerns but again until you've watched one of your best friends die from it twisting and thrashing around, hallucinating and what have you, or your parent die after becoming an empty shell you might want to rethink those opinions. (I know I used to feel this way) until Drs told us what they suspected on our mom, none of my sisters or my brother will use aluminum for ANYTHING acidic (even for a short time). As for anodizing. Yes it DOES render aluminum "safe" BUT it DOES easily get damaged and come off leaving bare metal. In a grilling environment that damage is ALL too easily done.
I for one will NOT thumb my nose at evidence in front of my nose. You guys want to? Have at it. I would only hope it does not happen to you or that what I have learned from what I have seen and heard does not happen to you.
There is also one more argument against the (GG). Aluminum is a VERY good conductor of heat, actually TOO good because it gives up heat as fast as it takes it in. Unlike ferrous material which takes longer to heat BUT gives it up much more slowly and can absorb tremendous amounts of energy and release it more slowly which is why we (chefs) like cast iron for searing and what have you.
So bottom line there is no redeeming value to them IMO. They can be bad for you, not the best material, hard to clean, and over priced gimmicks.
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LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
I was at Home Depot today and checked out some of the grills. I opened this Nexgrill and saw this:
Is that their version of the IR plates? I realize those are supposed to go under the cooking grates, but for some reason, the grates were under this...don't know if some customer did it or they just thought it was supposed to be that way.
Anyway, the grill felt like a tin can. Elcheapo. But, with all that stainless shining back at you, it sure catches the eye which is what they are all about these days.
Yes those "emitters" go under the grates. I am sure a customer or someone in the store who did not know how to assemble did it
THyde
TVWBB Guru
Not trying to be personal at all. I do like your analysis of the heat transfer properties of different metals. I learn a lot from your posts sir.
Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Larry,
I have never poked fun at your comments or thumb my nose at the evidence you bring - this is certainly too serious and personal to resort to that. As I said previously, before I read your story I had thought you were being unduly hard on GrillGrates as a product. Now, knowing your story, I can see why this is very personal and serious to you. I only submitted the quotes from two different websites as additional evidence to ponder. I don't blame you for making your decision given what has happened in your family, but I also know that many people love their grilling experience with GrillGrates. So, I just offered this up for consideration. I am not a doctor or a scientist, so I can't render a professional opinion. In my brief search, I couldn't find anything that said that grilling with aluminum was the same kind of issue as, say, cooking tomato sauce in an aluminum pan. But that isn't to say that there isn't a real risk.
Let's see how the "LarryGrates" fare when I can finally do my play-off contest. If it works as well as GrillGrates (or even better as you propose) then for me that would be the compelling way to go. I promise to be as unbiased as possible and give a full comparison that includes this issue. It is only fair, however, to state that some professional sources do not see grilling with aluminium as a cause of these biological issues, even while other people feel strongly otherwise.
Jon
Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Probably the next assembly job they gave to the kid working at the big box retailer right after he put the Weber kettle handle on upside down
! (See earlier thread with that one!)
Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I was at Home Depot today and checked out some of the grills. I opened this Nexgrill and saw this:
Is that their version of the IR plates? I realize those are supposed to go under the cooking grates, but for some reason, the grates were under this...don't know if some customer did it or they just thought it was supposed to be that way.
Anyway, the grill felt like a tin can. Elcheapo. But, with all that stainless shining back at you, it sure catches the eye which is what they are all about these days.
Bruce,
Yeah sleek and shiny, and with 5 burners thrown in. You can see why someone would be taken in (and why they would be shy on paying $300 for us to sell them a restored 20+ year old grill).
I am sure this grill probably cooks VERY WELL for a little while. Maybe if you were blessed to have a dry climate or dry place to keep it when you aren't cooking, it would last for a little while. But when the parts finally go, will they remember you or tell you about the Evolution 6 model?!!!
Jon
Bruce
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Yah, I was just trying to think how that same grill would look after one summer of grilling. Most guys would never bother to do anything but scrape the cooking grates every so often and I don't see anything being able to get through those tiny holes. It would clog up after a few cooks. Then, next spring, back to Home Depot for another disposable grill.