Underway: 2013 Spirit S-210


 
LMichaels said:
Do not use mineral spirits. It is much like kerosene (actually many people use it in place of K1), so it will leave an oily film. Use a commercial product that is typicaly used for car prep prior to painting or plain old lacquer thinner/enamel reducer. That will dry perfectly clean and if needed follow up with a tack rag.
Bruce I was under the impression that Fluid Film is that grease I have recommended which goes in like a thin fluid and hardens to thick oil/grease type coat (hence the name fluid film)
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I may use brake parts cleaner. I have several cans of it that I use to clean firearms.
 
Since the temp has dropped a bit and it was raining yesterday so I couldn't do much rust removal outdoors, I took some BKF and a Scotchpad sponge to the side shelves in the kitchen sink. They cleaned up nicely with minimal effort. I used some Eagle One spray wax to shine and provide some protection. I expect the hood will shine up just as well. Disassembled and cleaned the valves and greased them with some dielectric grease. I should be finished by next week. Did an inventory of parts that I have....2 sets of spare burner tube assemblies, new igniter system. The 16 gauge SS flavorizers are still in great shape as are the existing burner tubes. I was going to go a bit wild with the color on the hood caps and cookbox but got multiple penalty flags on that play. Looks to be a gloss grey/silver from Krylon.
 
The dielectric grease is typically used for electrical connections but it may work OK for the valves. It is recommended that you use break grease for heat reasons.
I am looking forward to some photos when you get done...particularly of the end caps.
 
Bruce said:
The dielectric grease is typically used for electrical connections but it may work OK for the valves. It is recommended that you use break grease for heat reasons.
I am looking forward to some photos when you get done...particularly of the end caps.
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Dielectric is rated to 2000 F. I'm OK with that. Plus.... It's what I had in my garage ��
 
Dielectric grease is not meant for lubrication. Also because it is silicone based it tends to migrate and will clog the small "jets" in the valve. I would HIGHLY recommend taking them apart cleaning them well and redoing it properly
 
LMichaels said:
Dielectric grease is not meant for lubrication. Also because it is silicone based it tends to migrate and will clog the small "jets" in the valve. I would HIGHLY recommend taking them apart cleaning them well and redoing it properly
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I already did. Dielectric is fine. It's high temp. silicone grease and can actually be interchanged with brake grease if need be. I cleaned the valves and fittings with brake cleaner and Q-Tips and a nice thin film of grease. Not much more scientific than that! :p
 
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Jay D in Jersey said:
I already did. Dielectric is fine. It's high temp. silicone grease and can actually be interchanged with brake grease if need be. I cleaned the valves and fittings with brake cleaner and Q-Tips and a nice thin film of grease. Not much more scientific than that! :p
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I think you're confused with something like this https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7651351 which some people use on brakes and I have tried but the stuff is garbage. The last brake job I tried it on the pins corroded and locked up causing the brake caliper to lock and burn up the pads. Also BECAUSE it is silicone based while it may be OK for use as a dielectric grease it is NOT as good as true dielectric grease https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000AL8VD2/tvwb-20 which makes no pretense of being a "lubricant" only a corrosion preventive. Also not good eats for valves.
While silicone lubes have their uses gas valves are not one of them because of the way they can migrate and cause fouling in other places. If it was good you'd see it inside the valves. I have never found a silicone lube in any kind of valve except water valves and o-rings.
 
LMichaels said:
I think you're confused with something like this https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7651351 which some people use on brakes and I have tried but the stuff is garbage. The last brake job I tried it on the pins corroded and locked up causing the brake caliper to lock and burn up the pads. Also BECAUSE it is silicone based while it may be OK for use as a dielectric grease it is NOT as good as true dielectric grease https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000AL8VD2/tvwb-20 which makes no pretense of being a "lubricant" only a corrosion preventive. Also not good eats for valves.
While silicone lubes have their uses gas valves are not one of them because of the way they can migrate and cause fouling in other places. If it was good you'd see it inside the valves. I have never found a silicone lube in any kind of valve except water valves and o-rings.
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I had given the valve cover screws each a dose of PB Blaster a few days ago so they are easy enough to remove and blasting them with brake really does get them squeaky clean. I might revisit. I have some plumbers grease too. It's rated to 400 degrees F. So I'll douse them and apply a film of that or if I'm in Advance Auto I'll drop a $1 on one of those little packets of brake grease from Permatex. Not too concerned. Valves are solid brass so nothing will get damaged and mostly any high temp. rated grease will get the job done.
 
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You're still missing the main point. There are places silicone does not belong and the valves are one of those places.
 
LMichaels said:
You're still missing the main point. There are places silicone does not belong and the valves are one of those places.
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No I think I understand correctly now . Grease is grease as long as it has a high enough temperature rating. That's why the plumbers grease will work too. It is really a very minor thing in the scope of of the project itself though don't you think?
 
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No GREASE IS NOT GREASE regardless of temp rating. There are "types" beyond temp ratings. Greases containing silicone should never be used where that migration of silicone can cause issues. In the case of the valves (or other items like them) silicone will migrate badly. It will get into and clog fine orifices (i,e, the valve body spools) and or the main orifices that regulate full fuel flow. I'm trying to help you here. Another thing (though doesn't apply to grills) is silicone is insidious in how it infiltrates and migrates everywhere it doesn't belong. Even something as innocuous as Armor All (and other silicone treatments for shining things) should be avoided in the engine compartment. As it will infiltrate the intake system and ruin MAF sensors, O2 sensors and many other ones. Yes, it IS that bad. It should ONLY be used where it is designed to be used. It is excellent at isolating and insulating electrical connections against salt and moisture (hence use of dielectric grease) it is excellent in some formulations when exposed to water to lubricate rubber hence it's use by plumbers to grease O-Rings in WATER valves, ir lubing a gasket on a sewage connection (also water I guess). Used correctly silicone formulated greases can be VERY effective at lubing a window track for your car though again because of it's migratory nature it can permanently render the glass unable to be effectively cleaned no matter what you use on it. Believe it or not silicone spray is even used in commercial baking as a release agent as it's fairly inert (in pure form) in the human body. But, again it should not be used where it does not belong. Now that being said take my advice or leave it. It's up to you if you want to ignore experience. Me? I was taught long ago we have twice as many inputs as outputs for a reason. :D Good luck whatever you do
 
LMichaels said:
No GREASE IS NOT GREASE regardless of temp rating. There are "types" beyond temp ratings. Greases containing silicone should never be used where that migration of silicone can cause issues. In the case of the valves (or other items like them) silicone will migrate badly. It will get into and clog fine orifices (i,e, the valve body spools) and or the main orifices that regulate full fuel flow. I'm trying to help you here. Another thing (though doesn't apply to grills) is silicone is insidious in how it infiltrates and migrates everywhere it doesn't belong. Even something as innocuous as Armor All (and other silicone treatments for shining things) should be avoided in the engine compartment. As it will infiltrate the intake system and ruin MAF sensors, O2 sensors and many other ones. Yes, it IS that bad. It should ONLY be used where it is designed to be used. It is excellent at isolating and insulating electrical connections against salt and moisture (hence use of dielectric grease) it is excellent in some formulations when exposed to water to lubricate rubber hence it's use by plumbers to grease O-Rings in WATER valves, ir lubing a gasket on a sewage connection (also water I guess). Used correctly silicone formulated greases can be VERY effective at lubing a window track for your car though again because of it's migratory nature it can permanently render the glass unable to be effectively cleaned no matter what you use on it. Believe it or not silicone spray is even used in commercial baking as a release agent as it's fairly inert (in pure form) in the human body. But, again it should not be used where it does not belong. Now that being said take my advice or leave it. It's up to you if you want to ignore experience. Me? I was taught long ago we have twice as many inputs as outputs for a reason. :D Good luck whatever you do
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So you're saying to use the plumbers grease rated to 400 degrees and save the expense of buying brake grease if I don't need to?
 
No plumber's grease is a silicone based product. It's not the temp rating it's the material it's made from that'll get you in trouble. You could use plain old Moly based automotive grease like this https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/533716-mystik-jt6-hi-temp-grease-with-3-moly.html not necessarily this particular brand it's just for illustration, but I didn't recommend it on the forums because I don't know how many people here need a whole tube of this stuff sitting around for a match head's worth of grease. Which is why I recommended the little packets of moly based brake lube. It's simply easier to come by and use. I use the brake lube and this F&F stuff interchangeably but only because I keep a large tube around for certain mixer applications where it's extreme pressure formula works a little better than the synthetic Teflon based stuff I also use.
I'm not saying you WILL have trouble with silicone migration but that it will be LIKELY. And once silicone starts creeping around it's REALLY difficult to get rid of. Great stuff just not the right application.
 
I wonder if a high heat special grease is really needed. The manifold normally does not get that hot. And you are supposed to apply a very thin coat anyhow. For my internal hub gears on my bicycles and all the other bike bearings I use a marine grade bearing grease which is rated to 500F. I wonder if I could just use that stuff. I don’t really want to buy another type of grease just for the valves.
 
Stefan H said:
I wonder if a high heat special grease is really needed. The manifold normally does not get that hot. And you are supposed to apply a very thin coat anyhow. For my internal hub gears on my bicycles and all the other bike bearings I use a marine grade bearing grease which is rated to 500F. I wonder if I could just use that stuff. I don’t really want to buy another type of grease just for the valves.
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NY thoughts exactly. It's not that exacting of a science.
 
Jay, you missed my point entirely. If you go back and read again you will see why I recommended the stuff I did. BTW the valves DO get quite hot. Not 500 deg hot but too hot to touch when grilling especially on a hot summer day and running pretty much full tilt to cook some steaks. The 500 deg rating on that Marine grease is for what is called the "drop point" IOW it's the point at which the grease would become fully liquid and no longer stay in place so. The other reason AGAIN is because of the moly. Every gas valve on a cooking appliance I have ever disassembled contained moly type grease. Whether on a kitchen stove, a gas grill, etc. So when I put the instructions up that Chris kindly turned into a video I used that precaution for the moly NOT silicone brake grease for a good reason. So Jay, it seems all you want to do is disprove what my observations and experience has shown. I guess that's your prerogative.
I don't have any "skin in the game" for recommending something. I do so because EXPERIENCE tells me what will or won't work.
Chris again thank you for taking my work and putting it to video. Jay, use whatever you want.................I honestly don't care. I simply tried to give you the benefit of experience telling me what will/won't work well
 
LMichaels said:
Jay, you missed my point entirely. If you go back and read again you will see why I recommended the stuff I did. BTW the valves DO get quite hot. Not 500 deg hot but too hot to touch when grilling especially on a hot summer day and running pretty much full tilt to cook some steaks. The 500 deg rating on that Marine grease is for what is called the "drop point" IOW it's the point at which the grease would become fully liquid and no longer stay in place so. The other reason AGAIN is because of the moly. Every gas valve on a cooking appliance I have ever disassembled contained moly type grease. Whether on a kitchen stove, a gas grill, etc. So when I put the instructions up that Chris kindly turned into a video I used that precaution for the moly NOT silicone brake grease for a good reason. So Jay, it seems all you want to do is disprove what my observations and experience has shown. I guess that's your prerogative.
I don't have any "skin in the game" for recommending something. I do so because EXPERIENCE tells me what will or won't work.
Chris again thank you for taking my work and putting it to video. Jay, use whatever you want.................I honestly don't care. I simply tried to give you the benefit of experience telling me what will/won't work well
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I'm not trying to prove nor am I trying to disprove anything you or any others have stated and I would hope that you or anyone else here would not take responses or comments personally. It's all good information. It's more a matter of the amount of time, effort and money that one chooses to put into any given project. That will always vary due to different individual situations. I've already addressed the cleaning and greasing of the valves for this project and am now focused on brushing, sanding, priming and painting.

I don't believe that this grill is one that will last another twenty years. Not with the amount of sheet metal it is constructed from and certainly not in the environment in which it will sit. Nor do I want to keep it that long. I am constantly searching for a solid replacement for the right price. But if I restore it to a good level, it will serve my needs until such time that I find something better and can either gift or sell this one in reasonably good condition.
 
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