BradP "p-nut"
TVWBB Fan
Those ribs are HUGE. No wonder it took so long to cook them.
Tough Ribs (again)
- Thread starter Les Stubby
- Start date
Tom R (doughboy)
TVWBB Member
As far as the lid temp, be careful with that. I found out on my last cook that my lid temp was reading 235 and my temp at the food was over 260. At 250 I was close to 300. With the lid below 200, my food was sitting at 225-230
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
What Brad and Tom and myself and others already said.
Without foil, it would really be hard to get that rack of ribs tender, but if it was done, it would probably take over 7 hours at a temp kept BELOW 225.
I probably already said it, but if you leave a rack whole without cutting the tips off, they need to be kept a little chewy or they'll start getting dry on you, assuming you're not foiling.
Without foil, it would really be hard to get that rack of ribs tender, but if it was done, it would probably take over 7 hours at a temp kept BELOW 225.
I probably already said it, but if you leave a rack whole without cutting the tips off, they need to be kept a little chewy or they'll start getting dry on you, assuming you're not foiling.
This is perfect! I have had years of practice making tough ribs.
I've made tough ribs from temps being too low. They were like rib-jerky.
Some of my other tough ribs were over-cooked and they tasted like dry pork chops... but, the bones were clean.
My tough under-cooked ribs almost tasted the same as dry pork chops, but the fat and connective tissue were rubbery and tough. The bones were not perfectly clean after eating.
I like to cook ribs fairly hot (anywhere from 275 to 350 depending on the grill I am using and how hungry I am). when they have a nice crust and are done like a nice pork chop would be I wrap in foil with something wet, something sweet, something spicy, and something tangy. I roast in foil until tender. Usually I can just grab the foil wrapped rib and feel that it is getting floppy. Then I put them on the grill to firm up with a little sauce glaze.
I used to never foil, but my guests go completely crazy over them when they pull off the bones easily. I guess I sold my soul to the foil gods. When I cook for myself, I don't mind a non-foiled rib that holds to the bone a little more.
Even a crappy rib is better than almost anything else in my book.
I've made tough ribs from temps being too low. They were like rib-jerky.
Some of my other tough ribs were over-cooked and they tasted like dry pork chops... but, the bones were clean.
My tough under-cooked ribs almost tasted the same as dry pork chops, but the fat and connective tissue were rubbery and tough. The bones were not perfectly clean after eating.
I like to cook ribs fairly hot (anywhere from 275 to 350 depending on the grill I am using and how hungry I am). when they have a nice crust and are done like a nice pork chop would be I wrap in foil with something wet, something sweet, something spicy, and something tangy. I roast in foil until tender. Usually I can just grab the foil wrapped rib and feel that it is getting floppy. Then I put them on the grill to firm up with a little sauce glaze.
I used to never foil, but my guests go completely crazy over them when they pull off the bones easily. I guess I sold my soul to the foil gods. When I cook for myself, I don't mind a non-foiled rib that holds to the bone a little more.
Even a crappy rib is better than almost anything else in my book.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
Without foil, it would really be hard to get that rack of ribs tender, but if it was done, it would probably take over 7 hours at a temp kept BELOW 225. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally dissagree with this statement. I don't foil ribs, wether cooking backs or spares. I never spritz, spray, or mop. I don't cook below 250º lid temp (most times temp is closer to 300º lid) when doing ribs, and I have no problems getting tender, moist, delicious ribs.
Without foil, it would really be hard to get that rack of ribs tender, but if it was done, it would probably take over 7 hours at a temp kept BELOW 225. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally dissagree with this statement. I don't foil ribs, wether cooking backs or spares. I never spritz, spray, or mop. I don't cook below 250º lid temp (most times temp is closer to 300º lid) when doing ribs, and I have no problems getting tender, moist, delicious ribs.
BradP "p-nut"
TVWBB Fan
That slab looks like it has half a bacon still on it.
Dave/G
TVWBB Emerald Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BradP "p-nut":
That slab looks like it has half a bacon still on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
True. Definitely doesn't look like your ordinary slab of ribs. Look how thick it is. I'm wondering. Maybe it's ribs and then some.
That slab looks like it has half a bacon still on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
True. Definitely doesn't look like your ordinary slab of ribs. Look how thick it is. I'm wondering. Maybe it's ribs and then some.
A couple of things I learned (and am still learning) on the way to making spares tender were:
1. Always do the STL trim. I find the edges are too thin and tend to over cook - though that might not be the case with yours. The thickest part (chine?) was also a little under done.
2. Keep the meat away from the edge of the grate. The edge of WSM seems to be warmer than the middle and tend to cook faster. That, coupled with the (usual) thinner meat of the edges means over cooked (again). Others in other threads have suggested some foil to protect the edges, but I haven't yet tried that.
3. I don't find foiling or not-foiling to make that much of difference for tenderness; but do find that it makes for a textural and appearance difference.
4. Toothpick, meat probe, other test for tender, which has been fully discussed above.
$0.02
1. Always do the STL trim. I find the edges are too thin and tend to over cook - though that might not be the case with yours. The thickest part (chine?) was also a little under done.
2. Keep the meat away from the edge of the grate. The edge of WSM seems to be warmer than the middle and tend to cook faster. That, coupled with the (usual) thinner meat of the edges means over cooked (again). Others in other threads have suggested some foil to protect the edges, but I haven't yet tried that.
3. I don't find foiling or not-foiling to make that much of difference for tenderness; but do find that it makes for a textural and appearance difference.
4. Toothpick, meat probe, other test for tender, which has been fully discussed above.
$0.02
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bryan S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
Without foil, it would really be hard to get that rack of ribs tender, but if it was done, it would probably take over 7 hours at a temp kept BELOW 225. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally dissagree with this statement. I don't foil ribs, wether cooking backs or spares. I never spritz, spray, or mop. I don't cook below 250º lid temp (most times temp is closer to 300º lid) when doing ribs, and I have no problems getting tender, moist, delicious ribs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Whatever works for you, man. When I meant tender, I meant juicy, too..not just "moist" too. I'm still working on it, but the best ribs I've done were per Mike Mills instructions, even though he normally smokes babybacks, with the exception of my "tip" I'll mention. I'd love to get juicy tender spares at higher temps with no foil, but so far, no luck. If I could, I'd assume I'd get better bark. My family seems to value juicy and tender better than good bark, though. Of course, I haven't been smoking racks 3.5 and under either. You might be a real expert. Please tell me what's the key! I'd be so obliged that I'll give you my "tip" in advance in case you haven't tried this: Try smoking some leg quarters over the spares. None of my guests mention the ribs tasting like chicken, I can promise you.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
Without foil, it would really be hard to get that rack of ribs tender, but if it was done, it would probably take over 7 hours at a temp kept BELOW 225. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally dissagree with this statement. I don't foil ribs, wether cooking backs or spares. I never spritz, spray, or mop. I don't cook below 250º lid temp (most times temp is closer to 300º lid) when doing ribs, and I have no problems getting tender, moist, delicious ribs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Whatever works for you, man. When I meant tender, I meant juicy, too..not just "moist" too. I'm still working on it, but the best ribs I've done were per Mike Mills instructions, even though he normally smokes babybacks, with the exception of my "tip" I'll mention. I'd love to get juicy tender spares at higher temps with no foil, but so far, no luck. If I could, I'd assume I'd get better bark. My family seems to value juicy and tender better than good bark, though. Of course, I haven't been smoking racks 3.5 and under either. You might be a real expert. Please tell me what's the key! I'd be so obliged that I'll give you my "tip" in advance in case you haven't tried this: Try smoking some leg quarters over the spares. None of my guests mention the ribs tasting like chicken, I can promise you.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Paul Lai:
A couple of things I learned (and am still learning) on the way to making spares tender were:
1. Always do the STL trim. I find the edges are too thin and tend to over cook - though that might not be the case with yours. The thickest part (chine?) was also a little under done.
2. Keep the meat away from the edge of the grate. The edge of WSM seems to be warmer than the middle and tend to cook faster. That, coupled with the (usual) thinner meat of the edges means over cooked (again). Others in other threads have suggested some foil to protect the edges, but I haven't yet tried that.
3. I don't find foiling or not-foiling to make that much of difference for tenderness; but do find that it makes for a textural and appearance difference.
4. Toothpick, meat probe, other test for tender, which has been fully discussed above.
$0.02 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Paul, thanks for the reminder of the grate hot zone toward the outer edges. That's obvious, but a key consideration for my next attempt at spares with my wsm. I might not ever be able to smoke ribs as good as I can with my drum smoker. However, I'm probably gonna try rolling the ribs next time on the wsm just for this very reason, though. I'll probably cook three SLS's rolled on the bottom rack squeezed toward the middle, and smoke some leg quarters on the top rack over the rolled spares, VENT temp target being 240 for the entire time. The only differences would be that the ribs weren't flat as with my drum smoker and that I had water in the pan. I only use a pan for heat deflection in my drum, and since it's tight as a drum
with just one vent on the bottom, temps lower than 225 with no water pan are easier as long as you don't leave the lid off much. My wsm is pretty tight, but I just don't see how the water pan would do anything but make it easier to keep real low for the entire cook.
A couple of things I learned (and am still learning) on the way to making spares tender were:
1. Always do the STL trim. I find the edges are too thin and tend to over cook - though that might not be the case with yours. The thickest part (chine?) was also a little under done.
2. Keep the meat away from the edge of the grate. The edge of WSM seems to be warmer than the middle and tend to cook faster. That, coupled with the (usual) thinner meat of the edges means over cooked (again). Others in other threads have suggested some foil to protect the edges, but I haven't yet tried that.
3. I don't find foiling or not-foiling to make that much of difference for tenderness; but do find that it makes for a textural and appearance difference.
4. Toothpick, meat probe, other test for tender, which has been fully discussed above.
$0.02 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Paul, thanks for the reminder of the grate hot zone toward the outer edges. That's obvious, but a key consideration for my next attempt at spares with my wsm. I might not ever be able to smoke ribs as good as I can with my drum smoker. However, I'm probably gonna try rolling the ribs next time on the wsm just for this very reason, though. I'll probably cook three SLS's rolled on the bottom rack squeezed toward the middle, and smoke some leg quarters on the top rack over the rolled spares, VENT temp target being 240 for the entire time. The only differences would be that the ribs weren't flat as with my drum smoker and that I had water in the pan. I only use a pan for heat deflection in my drum, and since it's tight as a drum
brady martin
Banned
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom R (doughboy):
As far as the lid temp, be careful with that. I found out on my last cook that my lid temp was reading 235 and my temp at the food was over 260. At 250 I was close to 300. With the lid below 200, my food was sitting at 225-230 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
this just confused me. isnt the lid temp always higher than the grate temp because heat rises to the top?
As far as the lid temp, be careful with that. I found out on my last cook that my lid temp was reading 235 and my temp at the food was over 260. At 250 I was close to 300. With the lid below 200, my food was sitting at 225-230 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
this just confused me. isnt the lid temp always higher than the grate temp because heat rises to the top?
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brady martin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom R (doughboy):
As far as the lid temp, be careful with that. I found out on my last cook that my lid temp was reading 235 and my temp at the food was over 260. At 250 I was close to 300. With the lid below 200, my food was sitting at 225-230 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
this just confused me. isnt the lid temp always higher than the grate temp because heat rises to the top? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
When temp is measured in the exhaust vent, that is the hottest temp of the cooker, 15 degrees or so hotter than the top grate. When the temp is measured opposite the vent, on the lid (with a gauge) that is the coolest temp of the cooker, and probably a few degrees cooler than what the center of the bottom rack is with a full pan of water in it. Most wsm's don't have gauges on the lid and some folks call the vent measurement the "lid temp", making it a little confusing. You'll find that meat placement and doneness level affects these differences and that's one reason why it's so popular to measure at the vent. Folks may feel this is more of a constant way to measure temp in the wsm, and I guess if the differences concern you, you could always rotate the rack 180 degrees for half the cook or put the thickest part of cuts on the vent side when feasible.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom R (doughboy):
As far as the lid temp, be careful with that. I found out on my last cook that my lid temp was reading 235 and my temp at the food was over 260. At 250 I was close to 300. With the lid below 200, my food was sitting at 225-230 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
this just confused me. isnt the lid temp always higher than the grate temp because heat rises to the top? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
When temp is measured in the exhaust vent, that is the hottest temp of the cooker, 15 degrees or so hotter than the top grate. When the temp is measured opposite the vent, on the lid (with a gauge) that is the coolest temp of the cooker, and probably a few degrees cooler than what the center of the bottom rack is with a full pan of water in it. Most wsm's don't have gauges on the lid and some folks call the vent measurement the "lid temp", making it a little confusing. You'll find that meat placement and doneness level affects these differences and that's one reason why it's so popular to measure at the vent. Folks may feel this is more of a constant way to measure temp in the wsm, and I guess if the differences concern you, you could always rotate the rack 180 degrees for half the cook or put the thickest part of cuts on the vent side when feasible.
I've almost completely switched from BB's to Spares and agree about trimming to St Louis style.
Regarding foiling, I've done it both ways and it just depends on how you finish. My preference, note it's just a preference, is pretty close to the 3-2-1 method, but I only foil for around 1.5 hours. This produces fall off the bone ribs for me when temps are around 225(ish). I don't mind foiling because I always finish with sauce. If I was not going to sauce before pulling off, I'd probably only foil for maybe 45 minutes.
But for me, 3-2-1, with the last half hour mopping the ribs with sauce for color and that sweet flavor, is the way to go.
Regarding foiling, I've done it both ways and it just depends on how you finish. My preference, note it's just a preference, is pretty close to the 3-2-1 method, but I only foil for around 1.5 hours. This produces fall off the bone ribs for me when temps are around 225(ish). I don't mind foiling because I always finish with sauce. If I was not going to sauce before pulling off, I'd probably only foil for maybe 45 minutes.
But for me, 3-2-1, with the last half hour mopping the ribs with sauce for color and that sweet flavor, is the way to go.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:...When temp is measured in the exhaust vent, that is the hottest temp of the cooker, 15 degrees or so hotter than the top grate. When the temp is measured opposite the vent, on the lid (with a gauge) that is the coolest temp of the cooker, and probably a few degrees cooler than what the center of the bottom rack is with a full pan of water in it. Most wsm's don't have gauges on the lid and some folks call the vent measurement the "lid temp", making it a little confusing. You'll find that meat placement and doneness level affects these differences and that's one reason why it's so popular to measure at the vent. Folks may feel this is more of a constant way to measure temp in the wsm, and I guess if the differences concern you, you could always rotate the rack 180 degrees for half the cook or put the thickest part of cuts on the vent side when feasible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Others here have this experience? The main reason I mounted my therm. permanently rather that continue placing it into the vent was to avoid breakage and now I'm reading - here at this thread - temperature differences between the vent and just across the handle from it.
Others here have this experience? The main reason I mounted my therm. permanently rather that continue placing it into the vent was to avoid breakage and now I'm reading - here at this thread - temperature differences between the vent and just across the handle from it.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
It absolutely does not matter. I have said this so many times. Pick a spot to temp. (I favor not picking grate temp.) Get used to it. Work off of it. What the 'real' temp is at the point of cooking is immaterial. What matters is that one learns to set then feel key parameters and then work off of them.
Kevin, is right. I don't even bother with grate temps anymore. I keep the temps at the lid constant and everything turns out great. The tip here is keeping the temp as steady as you can. Of course , when I cook, I favor around 250-260. This temp works for me. When you get the temps to the right spot feel the lid with your hands. It's funny you'll remember this feel and after awhile you can feel the lid on almost any cook(especially the low and slow cooks) and tell when you're in the range
Al Silverman
TVWBB Pro
Kevin,
Just curious, why do you not favor grate temps? I ask only because that's all I use.
Al
Just curious, why do you not favor grate temps? I ask only because that's all I use.
Al
Garland Hudgins
TVWBB Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
It absolutely does not matter. I have said this so many times. Pick a spot to temp. (I favor not picking grate temp.) Get used to it. Work off of it. What the 'real' temp is at the point of cooking is immaterial. What matters is that one learns to set then feel key parameters and then work off of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never a more true statement made. Consistency is the key.
Same as AL, curious as why you do not favor grate temps.
It absolutely does not matter. I have said this so many times. Pick a spot to temp. (I favor not picking grate temp.) Get used to it. Work off of it. What the 'real' temp is at the point of cooking is immaterial. What matters is that one learns to set then feel key parameters and then work off of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never a more true statement made. Consistency is the key.
Same as AL, curious as why you do not favor grate temps.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Temp wherever. I do not favor grate temps because I feel the consistency is better measuring at the vent - it's where the draft exits, after all, and is always where the draft exits, irrespective of what's cooking.
Temping at the grate (again, fine, of course) can be affected by the cook-to-cook positioning of the probe, i.e., next to a big hunk of cold meat, too close to the edge of a grate full off meat, etc. If one uses a Maverick, or the like (or if one simply sticks a skewer into the meat), the grate probe can be clipped to the meat probe (or the skewer) a couple or three inches above the meat, ameliorating temping at the grate.
I almost never temp meat while cooking (except for bacon and fresh sausage) so don't often break out the wired probe.
Regardless, consistency in approach to temp monitoring can go a long way to virtually guaranteeing successful cooks, whether one temps at grate, lid, or simply holds a hand above the lid vent.
Temping at the grate (again, fine, of course) can be affected by the cook-to-cook positioning of the probe, i.e., next to a big hunk of cold meat, too close to the edge of a grate full off meat, etc. If one uses a Maverick, or the like (or if one simply sticks a skewer into the meat), the grate probe can be clipped to the meat probe (or the skewer) a couple or three inches above the meat, ameliorating temping at the grate.
I almost never temp meat while cooking (except for bacon and fresh sausage) so don't often break out the wired probe.
Regardless, consistency in approach to temp monitoring can go a long way to virtually guaranteeing successful cooks, whether one temps at grate, lid, or simply holds a hand above the lid vent.