The competition


 
Jon Tofte

Jon Tofte

TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
For those of us promoting rehabbing older Genesis grills and their many virtues, it is probably a good idea to keep an eye on the competition. I think that, primarily, our grills are being evaluated in comparison to big box store chinajunk grills. Here is one I saw at Lowe’s yesterday. Six burners for $369:

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This one looks like a one season grill at best. I guess if you need to grill a bunch of burgers all summer and then drop it, this might work for you.

The problem, of course, is that many buyers would look at this “stainless” grill with six whole burners for only $369 and ask why they should pay anything close to that for an old Weber 3-burner, in spite of how thoroughly restored it is. We need to do our job in educating prospective buyers and be prepared to explain the huge difference in quality of construction.
 
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Jon Tofte said:
We need to do our job in educating prospective buyers and be prepared to explain the huge difference in quality of construction.
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I agree 100% with this. Until I began following this site in the not too distant past I never dreamed of looking for a rehabbed Weber grill. Now--because of what I read of the several of you with clean, older, USA-made Webers--I periodically browse CL for one. I want one ready to use; I have no ambition to do a restore myself, though I admire you whom do those jobs.

The problem is, how do you find out how to reach this potential audience? By the way, do any of you have a web site dedicated to this effort? That could be kinda cool if done tastefully (quite possibly with an emphasis on blogging and clean, well-lit pictures). Still, though, how do you attract traffic to it?

BTW... up for grabs are domain names such as weberclassics, weberclassicrestores, weberclassicrehabs, etc :)
 
I find that using CL and FB are good enough. Having and maintaining a web page isn't something I would want to do for the limited amount of grills that I rehab each season. But it does seem like a great idea if someone took this hobby to the next step and started a legit business doing it. But, I just do it more for a hobby than anything. I sure don't get rick doing it.

I actually have a list of 5 or 6 people who want to be notified as soon as I get my next grill done. I told them they would get first crack at it before I dropped it on CL and FB.
 
Don't forget also that new Spirit grill is part of the competition also since they are being sold at clearance prices at some Targets. It's hard to convince the average Tom/Dick/Harry that a rehabbed 1000/silver/E300 is better than the new Spirit, especially when comparing them price wise. It's the perception of "brand new, never used with a 10 year warranty" vs. "refurbished" that they'll probably think of the most.
 
Yah, when news of the new spirit being sold for as low a $100 in some areas, I immediately thought that there will be no market for a rehabbed Genesis in that area. The only thing is that I don't think these stores are selling dozens of them at that price. I think they are just clearing out stock on hand, maybe 4 or 5 grills. Most people don't even know those deals exist or existed.

But, on the bright side, it likely means that those people who do buy one will be putting their old grill (hopefully a Genesis) out on the curb.
 
Bruce said:
Yah, when news of the new spirit being sold for as low a $100 in some areas, I immediately thought that there will be no market for a rehabbed Genesis in that area. The only thing is that I don't think these stores are selling dozens of them at that price. I think they are just clearing out stock on hand, maybe 4 or 5 grills. Most people don't even know those deals exist or existed.
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My thoughts as well. These offers are short lived and the quantities are very limited. And then some people try to flip them for a higher price. I would have bought one or two of these too just to sell them again if I would have been aware of these deals.
I think we still have good chances with the rehab grills. There are some folks out there who like the older Weber quality. I had one buyer who was asking me several time if I only used genuine Weber parts to replace broken parts. It was hard to explain to him that for some parts it does not really matter for items such as stainless steel flavorizer bars.
 
Jon Tofte said:
The problem, of course, is that many buyers would look at this “stainless” grill with six whole burners for only $369 and ask why they should pay anything close to that for an old Weber 3-burner, in spite of how thoroughly restored it is. We need to do our job in educating prospective buyers and be prepared to explain the huge difference in quality of construction.
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When I moved to the US I did not want to spend much either and my first gas grill was a Charbroil for $99. Something similar to that.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Char-Broil...MI1aev4JD52wIVz8DACh37gQKEEAQYBCABEgLI2vD_BwE

But I learned pretty fast that buying cheap was expensive in the long run. Most interior parts lasted barely a year and replacing them was expensive. This is when I ended up with my Silver B. This was about 10 years ago when the shiny SS grills became popular and shoppers at the big box stores preferred the cheap shiny ones over the more expensive and old fashioned looking Weber. So I got mine as an open box item. Not terrible cheap but for a good price. And it was still in perfect shape when I sold it a few weeks ago.
But many folks still get blinded by the bling and price. Not everyone looks at it from a logical point of view and for the long term.
 
Exactly. Those cheap grills for $100-$200 are what I call "Throw away Grills". You just use them until they quit working (usually a year or so) and then toss them. No bother with burner tubes, flavorizer bars or cooking grates. If something goes bad, you just toss the whole thing and buy a new one for another year.

But, that is what Weber has to compete with. People walk in and see a shiny new Charbroil for $150 and a new Genesis or even Spirit for $400 and up and they just have a hard time believing that the Weber grill will not only last much longer, but it will generally cook much better the whole time as well. But there are a lot of people out there who owned a Genesis 1000 or Silver B. Or maybe Dad had an old Genesis 1000 while they were growing up. They remember that old grill on the back deck for a dozen or more years of great trouble free cooking with the family. Now they see a nice new looking rehabbed one just like Dad's back in the day and $250 or $300 seems like a bargain. Especailly after they have gone through 4 or 5 Charbroils in the last six years.

I just re-read that add for the Charbroil. It offers a 2 year extended warranty for $11. I would probably jump on that even though I would never consider one. IMO, you are very likely to be using that warranty. I also notice that the grates are porcelain coated STEEL. I can just imagine what those would look like after one summer of cooks.
 
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Yes but there is a market for quality. Probably not for the typical big box store shopper. But some people still like to buy longer lasting products. We have a small HW store in town and these guys only sell four brands of grills:
- Weber
- Napoleon
- Green Egg
- Traeger

None of these are cheap grills. But this store has been around forever and I think they are doing pretty good business wise. They also have the absolute best selection of nuts and bolts in all variations you can think of.
 
Zig Ziglar used to say "price is a one-time thing but cost can go on and on for as long as you own the product" (or its repeated replacements). But unfortunately it is challenging for Weber to educate prospective buyers; I would assume the major percentage of grills are sold through big box retailers or online. These physical retailers cannot afford (nor risk alienation from other, high-volume "manufacturers") to train clerks to push Weber, nor can Weber afford incentives to entice them to do so. Yeah, they may have a handful of dedicated retailers but most of us do not enter the doors of those stores. Greed would be one reason for manufacturers to source overseas but brutal competition is another reason. Larry must be on vacation but I anticipate his feedback, lol.

And I speak here by personal opinion, not out of firm knowledge.
 
The five pre 2000 grills I rehabbed and sold were bought by younger couples that remembered their parents having one and the memories that went with that. They remember the wood or dura wood slates and the look of the grill.
The two silver Bs I sold took much longer to sell because they weren't that old and didn't stir any memories nor did they have that distinct look of the older ones.

I use CL only and have had very good luck. Also I'm retiring from the grill rehabbing world as I haven't been able to find a single early genesis close enough to get within reason in three months. Some down in Phoenix but that's at least a 200+ round trip, not going to happen.

I would go a long way after seeing Jon's beautiful Skyline restoration to get one of those. But the odds are not that great here.
 
Stefan just said what I was trying to emphasize, though he managed to eloquently do so in a much less-wordy manner, lol.
 
Bruce said:
Exactly. Those cheap grills for $100-$200 are what I call "Throw away Grills". You just use them until they quit working (usually a year or so) and then toss them. No bother with burner tubes, flavorizer bars or cooking grates. If something goes bad, you just toss the whole thing and buy a new one for another year.
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This was always my dad's logic when I was growing up. I recall many years ago (mid/late 80s or so) ago trying to convince him to shell out $300 for a Weber, but he insisted that was way too much to spend on a grill. Instead he'd buy a "Grill-O-Matic 9000" or whatever off-brand schlock the local lumber store had for $149. Of course, to your point, he'd replace the $149 grill every two years or so.

Ironically my dad just purchased a new Genesis to replace a Weber that I bought in 1993. It did duty at two of my houses for 20 years and then retired to the shore with my parents 5 years ago. So, for the "ridiculous" price of $399 at the time, that grill did 25 years of service. Do the math...

MY MATH:

$399 grill / 25-years = $16 per grill-year


HIS MATH:

($149 grill x Every 2 Years) / 25-years = $1,788 = $72 per grill-year



So in his effort to SAVE money he invariably ended up spending 5x more than the cost of the EXPENSIVE grill.


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Sadly he applied this same logic to $149 store-brand lawnmowers vs $399 Toro's and $149 store brand bikes vs $399 Schwinn's etc etc
 
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I was in my Walmart today and walked by the grills. I did not see ANY Weber grills at all. Not even a Q1000. They were all Charbroil and a couple of another off brand. I think $300 was the most expensive of them all.
 
Our Wally World has the new Spirit II models. Honestly to my eyes and feel I don't see much diff in the Spirits and the el Cheapo's I noticed the lids were made of decidedly thin sheet metal, and the whole thing felt just "flimsy"
 
Yah, I don't know why Weber ever has the Spirit Lineup. I think they would be better off staying out of the "Economy" grill price range and focus on Genesis and up. When you start building grills to compete against the off brand chinese grills, you are going to have to cut a lot of corners to be competitive. And I don't think that does the Weber reputation any good.
 
Yep. Frankly I think they simply joined the Chinese ranks anyway. I know people hate me for saying it, but yeah looking at the new Genesis line sure it's a little better than say a CharBroil or the like. But IMO not by a huge margin. Certainly not enough to justify the pricing
 
Bruce said:
When you start building grills to compete against the off brand chinese grills, you are going to have to cut a lot of corners to be competitive. And I don't think that does the Weber reputation any good.
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As a fellow Weber fan I can see why you might feel that way. As a marketing guy, on the other hand, I think it makes perfect sense.

The people who are going to buy the low-end Weber instead of the off-brand crap aren’t people that the brand really has to worry about reputation-wise. The fact of the matter is that in those people’s minds the brand’s reputation is “overpriced” so having a model at that lower price point fixes that issue in that target customer segment... without really harming the brand among those of us that want the higher-end models.
F
It’s like Mercedes having a $35k C-class model...

1.) It’s a revenue stream you can tap right off the bat
2.) It gets new, younger, and/or price-sensitive customers into the brand
3.) You can upsell them later when it’s replacement time
4.) The guy in the $95k S-class doesn’t really care

It’s actually the reason that you specifically “cut corners” on the low-end model. You want the price-sensitive people to recognize what they are missing out on... and therefore aspire to the higher-end models next time. Also benefits the fragile ego of the higher-end customers, as we also recognize the better features that we are plunking our hard-earned money down for. We’d feel really stupid if the low end model had similar features.
 
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Ray: I get your point. I guess it is just that when I buy a Weber, I expect a Mercedes. Not a high end KIA.
As long as the quality is there, it won't matter however. Time will tell.
 
Bruce said:
Ray: I get your point. I guess it is just that when I buy a Weber, I expect a Mercedes. Not a high end KIA.
As long as the quality is there, it won't matter however. Time will tell.
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That's it exactly. Only time will tell if the newest genesis and spirit models can stand the test of time or not.

My opinion is the middle ground. I do think the old gassers the 1000 series and the A, B, C generation are the best. They are simple and can and do last decades with just a little care.

I'm not sure the new models will do that? I doubt it. But I do think they will last 10 or more years. And as such are far superior to the char broil, nexgrill, kemore, etc junk. But that bar is very very low. I mean most of those grills have sheet metal fireboxes. If used regularly as most of us do they will wear out in just a year or 2. No thanks.

My first preference is a vintage weber. 2nd choice by far though would be a new genesis II or spirit II.

In 10 years we'll have some idea about the durability of these new models. Until then it's just a guessing game.
 
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