Some Prime Rib Lessons


 
C

Chris Stanek

TVWBB Fan
After three consecutive fantastic rotisserie Prime Ribs... I fancied myself as somewhat of an expert for some reason forgetting how quickly the fire can humble a good man.

I made the 2nd half of a boneless Prime Rib yesterday... about 6 pounds or so. It didn't come out great. It was mediocre and naturally I was ****ed about the whole thing. Here are some of the things I learned for what they worth... your mileage may vary...

1) Avoid Boneless: The first two PR's had bones and were amazing. The 3rd was really good but fell short of the first two... this last one... eh.. I think the bones really insulate the meat allowing for slower more even cooking that helps retain the juices. I think you get far better edge to edge internal temps with the bones tied on.

2) The Fire: I used the weber baskets splitting a chimney full of Kingsford of half unlit in the baskets and tossing the half lit on top. Vents were about 1/3 open on the bottom. My opinion... waaaaay too much heat. I think I would use less charcoal overall and less lit. The baskets are pretty deep so I think that contributes to a hot fire.

3) Seasoning: Simple is better. It almost always is when it comes to good meat. This PR I did a combo of Kosher Salt, ground pepper, and added both some onion and garlic powder. Big mistake IMHO. Despite using quality seasonings, the crust tasted artificial... almost like that tenderizor-esque finish of a cheap steak at cheap restaurant. Salt and pepper... only for now on.

3) Smoke: No smoke... it just added to the cheap taste. It's further lasting proof to me that good meat just doesn't need to be messed with.

4) Temprature Monitoring: Cheap probes don't work. When my Mavs quit... my wife of course got me the cheapest probes she could find (that's a whole other story) My new Mavs have yet to show up, so I was stuck using probes that couldn't seem to lock in an accurate temp. I ended up poking the meat way to much because I got readins that varied 25 degrees... it just didn't make sense.

After about 50 minutes, I decided to do a quick check to see where I was at. The temp read 140. I knew that couldn't be correct and thought maybe I had the probe to close to the rod or forks and it was picking up errant temp. I ended up getting all sorts of readings 90, 115, 140, 105... it was so frustrating and was ****ed that I had to keep poking the meat trying to get some sense of the temp.

The probe found it's proper place... floating in the pool and I decided to pull the roast at one hour and fifteen minutes after doing some poke tests with my finger. I let it rest for about 15 minutes.

Another thing worth noting. Pull the rod and forks. Thinking, the roast may be under cooked for some reason, I left the rod in so I I needed to, I could toss back on the rotis. Stupid move. The heat from the rod and forks is more than enough to continue the cooking process far beyond the normal rest. The result was a medium roast instead of the medium rare I was going for.

I'm sure if I did this for a living... I could get all this smoking and grilling stuff down to feel... but it's a hobby... so the right tools are essential. My thermapen should arrive this week along with my dual Mav and my rotis Mav... all of which will help take out most of the guesswork.

Anyway... I was really the only one complaining as everyone else was stuffing their pie hole and all smiles. Knowing what could have been is what makes me so angry. Next time, I'll put what I learned to use and and have a result that lives up to the expectation.
 
Thanks for posting that Chris. It is so very helpful and instructional. I'm sure it did taste great. I understand your frustration in making something a few times, and it just doesn't turn out the way you have hoped it would.
 
Thanks for sharing. That helps the rest of us as well. I thought I'd add my $0.02 US regarding a couple points.

Bones: I've done some beef back ribs and I would not discount the contribution of fat near the bones.

Fire: Close the bottom even more if it seems too hot. Do you monitor temperature in the lid or at the grate? I usually do.

Seasoning: Agreed. Again with the beef back ribs I went with only cracked black pepper and salt and that was enough. I might consider adding garlic as well. (OTOH when I do pork I go with a robust blend of seasonings.)

Smoke: What wood? I have done "smoking wood tests" in my mini-WSM. I cook a variety of meats including beef patties, chicken, pork, tilapia, salmon and a couple potato slices for good measure. I choose a single wood from my collection and see how the various foods taste with that wood. There is a pretty noticeable difference between different smoking woods. You might consider trying something different. (I'm not sure what's good with beef, but I really like cherry with fish.) At the least, you could use something a bit more subtle such as oak or black walnut.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WalterWhite:
Thanks for sharing. That helps the rest of us as well. I thought I'd add my $0.02 US regarding a couple points.

Bones: I've done some beef back ribs and I would not discount the contribution of fat near the bones.

Fire: Close the bottom even more if it seems too hot. Do you monitor temperature in the lid or at the grate? I usually do.

Seasoning: Agreed. Again with the beef back ribs I went with only cracked black pepper and salt and that was enough. I might consider adding garlic as well. (OTOH when I do pork I go with a robust blend of seasonings.)

Smoke: What wood? I have done "smoking wood tests" in my mini-WSM. I cook a variety of meats including beef patties, chicken, pork, tilapia, salmon and a couple potato slices for good measure. I choose a single wood from my collection and see how the various foods taste with that wood. There is a pretty noticeable difference between different smoking woods. You might consider trying something different. (I'm not sure what's good with beef, but I really like cherry with fish.) At the least, you could use something a bit more subtle such as oak or black walnut. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I turned another one on the rotis last night... a smaller 4.5 pounder with bones. It came out perfect... as good as the my first two rotis PR's.

I went with black salt and very coarse ground pepper... no wood. I didn't use the weber baskets this time and felt I had a much more distributed heat. I used a full Weber chim... 2/3 unlit spread along side my drip pan and 1/3 lit placed on top. They were spread out a lot more than they would have been in the baskets and I think that helped. Bottom vent was just about closed all the way.. top vent wide open.

I've done prime rib over the years on my big offset... and I always get away from what works thinking more is always going to be better. Simple straightforward prep and process is the way to go for me when cooking one this way.

I've tried oak, hick, alder, and apple on this last one, in different amounts... none seem to really compliment the prime rib and actually seem to take away from the flavor... almost masking it giving an artificial tinge to it. Some of my friends who are cooking nuts seem to agree now that I've really sat them down to go over things (which we do in our little group of bbq/chef wannabes). I think the charcoal itself gives off just enough flavor and gives that wonderful hint of charred goodness. I'll save the fancy rubs and pastes and crusts for the ones I do indoors in the oven.

I didn't have my probes on hand for this cook either... in fact the crappy probe I struggled with was still floating in the pool from my outburst the day before... pretty stupid in hindsight I just used time, look, and feel. I got lucky and pulled it at the right time... just when the crust was good and dark.

I took it out two hours before the cook, seasoned one hour before and tied the bones on afterward and seasoned them next.

There was no magic... just basic fundamental stuff and it turned out perfect.
 
Thanks for the post!

I know it stinks to ruin one, At least others won't follow that mistake.

I'm waiting for my Rotisserie to come and then it's my turn to roast stuff. Of course, I'm going to start small, probably chicken first.
 
Chris IMO the best wood for beef is mesquite, ask any Texan. I stay away from anything that might have a sweet flavour when cooking beef. I also like just a hint of smoke so it complements the beef not overpowers it. Heck with the price of Prime Rib you want to taste the meat.

Walter- Everything I've read about Black Walnut says to stay away from it because it adds a bitter taste. Do you use it? I have a Black Walnut tree and wanted to try it but everything I read told me not to.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anyway... I was really the only one complaining as everyone else was stuffing their pie hole and all smiles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There you go Chris, as you know, people's tastes vary greatly.

Fine post, and I agree with most of it except for the boneless rib roasts, we love them as well as bone-in.
And we also like a hint of hickory or pecan smoke.
There again, individual taste preferences.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob Correll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anyway... I was really the only one complaining as everyone else was stuffing their pie hole and all smiles </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There you go Chris, as you know, people's tastes vary greatly.

Fine post, and I agree with most of it except for the boneless rib roasts, we love them as well as bone-in.
And we also like a hint of hickory or pecan smoke.
There again, individual taste preferences. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You know what, Bob? Pecan is one I haven't tried. I do know where I can get some, however. Let's say you're doing an 8 pound roast... what amount of wood would you use? Chunks or chips? Also, do you just add a bit of smoke in the beginning or just a wee bit through out the cook?

I'm willing to give the smoke another chance based on what you guys are telling me.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris Stanek:
...
I'm willing to give the smoke another chance based on what you guys are telling me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>My recommendation is to cook some beef patties using the same setup you would use for the more expensive cut and throw a few wood chips on the coals. Note that you will be using the indirect method but they won't cook long enough to brown nicely like when grilling via the direct method. But it will pick up some of the smoke flavor and give you some idea of what to expect w/out risking an expensive roast.
 
One thing Chris, if you were used to prime rib from restaurants or such before making your own, any smoke wood may very well give it an odd taste.

I use chunks.
If small maybe two or three, if the chunks are large, just one.
I put it/them on just at the beginning.
IMO, pecan is the best smoke wood of all, hickory second, for beef and pork.
Apple or cherry for everything else.
 
I just cooked a 14-lb bone-on PR this past Sunday on my Summit rotisserie and fortunately, it came out quite nicely. I say "fortunately" because I had a temp snafu, as well. I poked 112°F with the instant read but when I came back, the temp had shot up to around 145°F, which didn't make sense considering the short time between pokes. When I cut the rested roast, however, it done MR-to-M which is what I was shooting for. I think my next purchase will be a Thermapen.

As for seasoning and smoke, I tend to keep it simple. After dry aging the beef for a week, I rubbed it down with olive oil, and laid on some salt, black pepper, ground coriander, and a bit of garlic powder. That's about as complicated as I get with a good rib roast. I kept mesquite chips in the smoker box for nearly the entire cook and we all enjoyed the results.
 
You know it's odd that you experienced the same temp issues that I did. I got wildly deviatinig temps. I'm just assuming my cheap replacement probe was either picking up the ambient temps from the coals or I was poking to close to the rod which much hotter than the meat. It was just weird how different the temps read.

My Thermapen arrived yesterday... my new Mavs should arrive today or tomorrow. That should at least help solve some of the mystery.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brett Luna:
I just cooked a 14-lb bone-on PR this past Sunday on my Summit rotisserie and fortunately, it came out quite nicely. I say "fortunately" because I had a temp snafu, as well. I poked 112°F with the instant read but when I came back, the temp had shot up to around 145°F, which didn't make sense considering the short time between pokes. When I cut the rested roast, however, it done MR-to-M which is what I was shooting for. I think my next purchase will be a Thermapen.

As for seasoning and smoke, I tend to keep it simple. After dry aging the beef for a week, I rubbed it down with olive oil, and laid on some salt, black pepper, ground coriander, and a bit of garlic powder. That's about as complicated as I get with a good rib roast. I kept mesquite chips in the smoker box for nearly the entire cook and we all enjoyed the results. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Chris and Brett, I could not help cracking up reading about your struggles with temps. I did my 1st PR this weekend, a 15 pound boneless monster. I have a Polder probe (which I left in the whole cook), and a Thermapen that I stuck in every 20 minutes or so, and I swear the 2 were 15 degres apart at one point. If either of you live east of the Mississippi, and you heard someone screaming the "F" word on Sunday, I bet it was me.

I tested both thermometers inside the house (ice water test and bioling water test), and they worked perfect. I swear they were an inch apart in the roast, and my readings were as much as 15 degrees different.

What's the Mav you can use with a rotis? I just received my rotisserie
 
I read about your cook. That's awsome it turned out. I did some talking at the local bbq place here and this is what they told me... it sorda confirms what I've thought.

Basically, the cheaper probes aren't as localized or accurate... even just moving the probe around in it's poke point will change the reading.

Also, the rotis rod and forks will be significantly hotter so keep the pokes away from there. Ideally, he said to poke the meat straight down from the top so that the probe is vertical and screened from the heat source by whatever it is you're cooking.

I don't know... like I said... this is what I was sorda hypothesizing in my head... but maybe I don't necessarily know that it's true just because someone else thought the same thing based on what appear to be obvious observations.

The Maverick you want for your rotis is this one:
Rotis Probe

I've read that there is some modification to make it work on a Weber rotis, but I haven't got mine yet so I can't say. Either way... it can't be all that difficult.. maybe only a different kind of bushing to turn on... but we'll see. Either way... I think it's worth it. I plan on monitoring with the Mav and doing the final-final check with the Thermapen on future cooks... espcially when spending the bigger dollars on real prime rib.

But again... congrats on your roast. I'm glad it all worked out for you!
 
Chris, I am very interested in your Mav for the rotisserie. I saw on Amazon (and on Mavericks website) that thermometer does not fit (at least as-is) on "most" Weber grills.

Let us know if you're able to get it on your Weber. I cannot wait to do PR and poultry on the rotisserie.
 
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