Smoke ring
- Thread starter Dave O
- Start date
Guy Wallace
TVWBB Super Fan
Other than the water nothing changed but a little temp . I always use water and do my briskets butts over brisket and get a decent smoke ring .
If the smoke ring and or taste was enough diffrence then I would go back to using water . Since that was really your only change.
But then if it was to your liking then who cares and don't change a thing . having a smoke ring looks good but is not a big deal if you do or don't IMO . As long as the taste is there .
If the smoke ring and or taste was enough diffrence then I would go back to using water . Since that was really your only change.
But then if it was to your liking then who cares and don't change a thing . having a smoke ring looks good but is not a big deal if you do or don't IMO . As long as the taste is there .
Whether I use water or a clay saucer (my method of choice) doesn't seem to affect my smoke ring. You say you're using slightly lower temps, so maybe you're doing something different with the fire or vents. Anyway, I wouldn't be concerned with the smoke ring as long as it's tender and tastes great.
D. L. Whitehead
TVWBB Super Fan
Howdy hi Dave,
I have always believed that smoking in a moist environment HELPS to facilitate smoke ring formation. I will continue this belief until someone can provide sound, non-anecdotal evidence otherwise. No, added water in the smoker is not required for good smoke ring formation. But, all else being equal, I believe added moisture inside the smoker will typically improve smoke ring formation over smoking in a drier smoking atmosphere. It involves vapor pressure and all that scientific stuff.
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I have always believed that smoking in a moist environment HELPS to facilitate smoke ring formation. I will continue this belief until someone can provide sound, non-anecdotal evidence otherwise. No, added water in the smoker is not required for good smoke ring formation. But, all else being equal, I believe added moisture inside the smoker will typically improve smoke ring formation over smoking in a drier smoking atmosphere. It involves vapor pressure and all that scientific stuff.
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Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
Internal meat temp when putting on the cooker makes a lot more difference than water or not, so I'd pay a lot of attention to that. You can't really taste a smoke ring, though, so don't worry too much about it.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Since for most of my WSM cooks I target 325-350 I use an empty pan. I get great rings. I Minion the start and put the meat in immediately because I like rings and I like to maximize smoke time since at higher temp cooks are shorter.
It isn't vapor pressure. It's a chemical reaction between volatiles in the smoke and the meat's surface. It quits when the meat warms.
It isn't vapor pressure. It's a chemical reaction between volatiles in the smoke and the meat's surface. It quits when the meat warms.
D. L. Whitehead
TVWBB Super Fan
Yeah, but it's a vapor pressure thing that will facilitate an improved smoke ring over a drier smoking atmosphere--all else being equal.
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K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I understand what you're saying. Sounds plausible - but I'm not convinced, yet anyway. I'll have to experiment with it some time. In cooks with water in the pon, meat temps rise to the point where ring formation stops well before the water has much of a chance to heat significantly. Also, in the draft scenario in a WSM, what humidity that is created by the water early on is not contained.
I've not noticed a difference when I cook out west, in much less humid conditions, with and without water, but you're probably better able to spot differences in your location, over repeated cooks. It is an interesting question and one I'd like to explore when possible.
I've not noticed a difference when I cook out west, in much less humid conditions, with and without water, but you're probably better able to spot differences in your location, over repeated cooks. It is an interesting question and one I'd like to explore when possible.
D. L. Whitehead
TVWBB Super Fan
Howdy hi Kevin,
I have no solid proof other than my own anecdotal evidence and we all know what that's worth. But, I believe, at least in a WSM or Weber grill, "water smoking" simply must aid smoke ring formation versus a drier, no-water-added smoke with all other things being equal.
I always add boiling water to my water vessels--a few bay leaves, too, for a nice aromatic addition! As far as the WSM being a closed system, we know it isn't. But, it is for the most part a considerably/very restricted system.
It would make a very interesting and, somewhat informative, Masters Thesis project. Could easily piggyback a test to see if "water-smoked" meat retains more moisture than "dry environment" smoked meats--all else being equal. Maybe Weber should drop some coin on a University somewhere...
There are a lot of points needing to be kept equal.
a) Comparing same meat cuts from the right & left side of the same critter--all processed, stored and prepared the same.
b) Smoke wood from the same lot--kept and used under conditions that are kept as similar as humanly possible.
C) Automatic temperature control for similar cooking temperatures.
d) Multiple smoke ring measurements from similar locations on each meat tested.
e) Probably a few other things I haven't considered or bothered to mention...
A true test would likely require at least a dozen comparison tests to be done to have enough results for good statistical power.
After all that, I'd bet there would be a statistical difference between the "water smoked" and drier smoked meats--with the "water smoked" meats having a larger smoke ring.
However, the real question would be: Is there an <span class="ev_code_RED">important</span> difference--a difference that is worth the extra effort? That I'm not so sure of...
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I have no solid proof other than my own anecdotal evidence and we all know what that's worth. But, I believe, at least in a WSM or Weber grill, "water smoking" simply must aid smoke ring formation versus a drier, no-water-added smoke with all other things being equal.
I always add boiling water to my water vessels--a few bay leaves, too, for a nice aromatic addition! As far as the WSM being a closed system, we know it isn't. But, it is for the most part a considerably/very restricted system.
It would make a very interesting and, somewhat informative, Masters Thesis project. Could easily piggyback a test to see if "water-smoked" meat retains more moisture than "dry environment" smoked meats--all else being equal. Maybe Weber should drop some coin on a University somewhere...
There are a lot of points needing to be kept equal.
a) Comparing same meat cuts from the right & left side of the same critter--all processed, stored and prepared the same.
b) Smoke wood from the same lot--kept and used under conditions that are kept as similar as humanly possible.
C) Automatic temperature control for similar cooking temperatures.
d) Multiple smoke ring measurements from similar locations on each meat tested.
e) Probably a few other things I haven't considered or bothered to mention...
A true test would likely require at least a dozen comparison tests to be done to have enough results for good statistical power.
After all that, I'd bet there would be a statistical difference between the "water smoked" and drier smoked meats--with the "water smoked" meats having a larger smoke ring.
However, the real question would be: Is there an <span class="ev_code_RED">important</span> difference--a difference that is worth the extra effort? That I'm not so sure of...
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K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I would not consider the WSM to be considerably or even very restricted system; barely restricted seems more a propos, and this is why we do not see shortened cooking times when using water. In considerably restricted systems we see much more efficient heat transfer; these systems actually do 'keep meat moist', and because of their efficiency the Food Code allows for lower cooking temps when using them. The humidity must become quite high for this to work. That simply does not occur in the open draft system of a WSM.
The open draft system is also why liquids used in place of or added to the water in the pan - or solids, like bay leaves - have little to no effect on the flavor profile of the finished meat, though they'll add a nice aroma. Volatilized flavors are carried off in the draft. (If using fresh bay, trim the leaves with some attached woody parts and add to the fuel so they smolder; if using dried make a foil pouch for them.)
I use hot water for butt cooks - the only thing I low/slow. I use cool water for belly and other things I'm smoking at temps of 135-200. I use an empty pan for brisket, ribs, poultry, etc. No problem with rings. Anecdotal, perhaps, but to wit (Minion start, cooked at >325, no water):
Be cool to experiment and test though.
The open draft system is also why liquids used in place of or added to the water in the pan - or solids, like bay leaves - have little to no effect on the flavor profile of the finished meat, though they'll add a nice aroma. Volatilized flavors are carried off in the draft. (If using fresh bay, trim the leaves with some attached woody parts and add to the fuel so they smolder; if using dried make a foil pouch for them.)
I use hot water for butt cooks - the only thing I low/slow. I use cool water for belly and other things I'm smoking at temps of 135-200. I use an empty pan for brisket, ribs, poultry, etc. No problem with rings. Anecdotal, perhaps, but to wit (Minion start, cooked at >325, no water):
Be cool to experiment and test though.