Question for Summit owners...


 
T

TonyI

New member
So, my old Kenmore Elite bit the dust after about 14 yrs of hard labor. It was my go-to grill on the deck (always covered, cleaned once a yr). I have an older Genesis S-310 that I got for free cuz a friend of mine was building an outdoor kitchen (I'm a lucky man, I know!!!!!) about 5 years ago that functions as my winter grill. I keep it in the garage. I have been very happy with it. I am strongly considering purchasing a Summit S-470. I went to my local dealer this weekend and basically took apart the grill to check out its "guts." The rep didn't seem to mind it amazingly enough. I was somewhat surprised to see that the entire firebox was not cast aluminum or SS. There appear to be two panels that run the length of the grill in the bottom of the firebox in the front and back that funnel the grease down into the large SS collection tray. These appear to be enamel-coated steal. The back of the firebox also appears to be this material.

My question is this: How do those pieces hold up? My past experiences with enamel-coated steel that close to burners/extreme heat has not been good. Any issues with rust? Any issues with chipping? If I'm going to drop that kind of coin on a grill, I really would like it to last.

Thanks in advance for any input.
 
Tony, it's a MAJOR gripe for me too. I bought my (older now) Summit 450 with the idea that even though the fire box was porcelain coated steel it had a 25 year warranty. Yes the fire box DID rust out. Weber was very kind up to the point where they said "oh yes it's in warranty" but so sorry we cannot help you because we don't make the parts or carry them anymore. BTW this was at only about 12 years in. So a couple thoughts. Buy it and claim rust through LONG before it actually occurs and stockpile the part(s), or look at another brand of product with either a cast or stainless fire box. Thankfully I was able to get together with another member here from whom I acquired the needed part to repair my Summit (which BTW is a truly fine grill). I just did a gorgeous bottom round roast on it last night.
Weber was nice re the failure but offered absolutely nothing to me in any way to make up for this. IMO a very disappointing performance for a grill that cost as much as it did. Oddly for some reason the failure always occurs on the side the burners pass through. On the positive side they perform nicely and are relatively easy to maintain
 
I've had my Summit Grill Center for 3 years. I've had 2 problems. The tank scale light stopped working and the latch for the rotisserie unit gave way. Weber replaced both without resistance. I've had no issues with the fire box.
 
Why in the world would Weber not make their top of the line grills firebox out of cast aluminum? To me that's maybe the best feature on the genesis and the main reason they are almost indestructible.
 
LMichaels, thx for the input. That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I may just get an EP 330 plumbed for NG. I think it will either be that, or stepping much higher up in price point. Don't know if I'm (or wife!) ready for that.
 
Greg M said:
Why in the world would Weber not make their top of the line grills firebox out of cast aluminum? To me that's maybe the best feature on the genesis and the main reason they are almost indestructible.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking!
 
I have the summit grill and I had that exact issue. Rusted out hole, right by sear station burners. Weber replaced firebox with no hassle at all, albeit this grill is only 4 or 5 years old at most.




TonyI said:
So, my old Kenmore Elite bit the dust after about 14 yrs of hard labor. It was my go-to grill on the deck (always covered, cleaned once a yr). I have an older Genesis S-310 that I got for free cuz a friend of mine was building an outdoor kitchen (I'm a lucky man, I know!!!!!) about 5 years ago that functions as my winter grill. I keep it in the garage. I have been very happy with it. I am strongly considering purchasing a Summit S-470. I went to my local dealer this weekend and basically took apart the grill to check out its "guts." The rep didn't seem to mind it amazingly enough. I was somewhat surprised to see that the entire firebox was not cast aluminum or SS. There appear to be two panels that run the length of the grill in the bottom of the firebox in the front and back that funnel the grease down into the large SS collection tray. These appear to be enamel-coated steal. The back of the firebox also appears to be this material.

My question is this: How do those pieces hold up? My past experiences with enamel-coated steel that close to burners/extreme heat has not been good. Any issues with rust? Any issues with chipping? If I'm going to drop that kind of coin on a grill, I really would like it to last.

Thanks in advance for any input.
Click to expand...
 
I own and have seen several other Summits with the front panel of the firebox rusted through. Mine is a 2007 that was not taken care of and was badly rusted when I got it maybe a couple of years ago. I have looked at other used Summits and they had the same issue. The Genesis is built to last longer, but it doesn't have the infrared rotisserie burner and pop up rotisserie like the Summit.

My opinion:
The Summit is aimed at guys who think that the more something costs, the better it must be, and the more features the better. Also, it is aimed at guys who have more money to spend on a grill than I do. These guys actually LIKE having to buy a new grill after several years.

The Genesis is the better value, parts and accessories are plentiful and cheap, and they last much longer than the Summits.
 
Greg Y said:
I own and have seen several other Summits with the front panel of the firebox rusted through. Mine is a 2007 that was not taken care of and was badly rusted when I got it maybe a couple of years ago. I have looked at other used Summits and they had the same issue. The Genesis is built to last longer, but it doesn't have the infrared rotisserie burner and pop up rotisserie like the Summit.

My opinion:
The Summit is aimed at guys who think that the more something costs, the better it must be, and the more features the better. Also, it is aimed at guys who have more money to spend on a grill than I do. These guys actually LIKE having to buy a new grill after several years.

The Genesis is the better value, parts and accessories are plentiful and cheap, and they last much longer than the Summits.
Click to expand...

Throwing out the BS flag here. When the Summit series first came out there were no IR burners, smoke burners, bells and whistles. It was aimed at someone (like myself) who believed they were getting BETTER product (read performing and longer lasting). To a point it's correct. And BTW the rust out happens whether you take care of it or not. It's a design defect and or a manufacturing defect or both. The real gripe here is not that it happened (though trust me it does not make you happy) it's when Weber falls on it's face and does not support the product under it's own warranty period and offers the customer no other hope for repair. End of story
 
Sorry LM, but I didn't mean you in particular and probably not very many people on this forum (if any). I was referring to what must be going on at Weber's marketing department concerning the new Summit gas grills.
Most of the guys on here are very practical and frugal, not the type that they new Summits are aimed at. I'm sorry that Weber did not stand behind yours and back up their own warranty. Seems to me that if they warrant a part for 25 years, they should keep some in stock for that long.
 
Knock on wood, I've not had this problem with my 2002 Summit 450.

Has anyone tried patching the damaged area with S/S? Saw this done once in the firebox of a Genesis E-310.

EDIT: Found an example of S/S patching with photos by Greg Y here:

http://tvwbb.com/showthread.php?46352-Summit-S-650-dilemma&p=515493&viewfull=1#post515493

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I've heard this around here numerous times, but I'm a bit confused - when a manufacturer warrants their product for a set period of time, and they haven't gone out of business, changed hands, etc - they simply have a defective product that fails before the warranty period is up - how do they get away with not honoring that warranty? Simply not having the parts in stock doesn't absolve them of responsibility - either they owe you a part, or they owe you a new grill. While the cost to a single owner would be too high, it seems that this would have been a far more valid class action lawsuit than that "made in USA" BS one from a few years ago.
 
Toni,
You said you may get an EP-330 plumbed for NG.
I really like my EP-330 (propane). I have had it for about 5 years now.
 
Chris S (Tucson) said:
I've heard this around here numerous times, but I'm a bit confused - when a manufacturer warrants their product for a set period of time, and they haven't gone out of business, changed hands, etc - they simply have a defective product that fails before the warranty period is up - how do they get away with not honoring that warranty? Simply not having the parts in stock doesn't absolve them of responsibility - either they owe you a part, or they owe you a new grill. While the cost to a single owner would be too high, it seems that this would have been a far more valid class action lawsuit than that "made in USA" BS one from a few years ago.
Click to expand...
From my 2002 Weber Summit 450 owner's manual:

Warranty

Weber-Stephen Product Co. (Weber) hereby warrants to the ORIGINAL PURCHASER of this Weber Gas Barbecue that it will be free of defects in material and workmanship from the date of purchase as follows:

Aluminum Castings: 25 years,
Cooking Grates and Flavorizer Bars: 7 years,
All Remaining Parts: 5 years,

when assembled and operated in accordance with the printed instructions accompanying it.

<snip>

This Limited Warranty does not cover... <snip> ...failure to perform normal and routine maintenance.

Deterioration or damage due to severe weather conditions... <snip> ...acid rain... <snip> is not covered by this Limited Warranty.

-----

So there are lots of outs here. The parts in question are covered for only 5 years...no obligation to offer replacement parts after that time (but wish they would). Buy a used Summit on Craigslist? Sorry, you're not the original owner, no warranty for you. Didn't operate the grill according to the instructions? Sorry. Didn't perform routine maintenance as required? Sorry. Leave it out in the rain? Sorry.

In the thread I linked above, Greg Y posted the warranty for the Summit 670 and it says:

  • Aluminum castings 25-years (2 years on paint; excludes fading)
  • Cookbox Assembly 10-years (2 year on paint excludes fading)
So that's double the firebox warranty I got on my 2002 model and Weber should offer those parts for at least 10 years. But in Greg's case, he was not the original owner and he couldn't provide a serial number for the unit, so he fabricated S/S patches to repair the damage.

The big unanswered question is why doesn't Weber use a cast aluminum firebox in its top of the line gasser? Beats me.
 
Chris Allingham said:
From my 2002 Weber Summit 450 owner's manual:

Warranty

Weber-Stephen Product Co. (Weber) hereby warrants to the ORIGINAL PURCHASER of this Weber Gas Barbecue that it will be free of defects in material and workmanship from the date of purchase as follows:

Aluminum Castings: 25 years,
Cooking Grates and Flavorizer Bars: 7 years,
All Remaining Parts: 5 years,

when assembled and operated in accordance with the printed instructions accompanying it.

<snip>

This Limited Warranty does not cover... <snip> ...failure to perform normal and routine maintenance.

Deterioration or damage due to severe weather conditions... <snip> ...acid rain... <snip> is not covered by this Limited Warranty.

-----

So there are lots of outs here. The parts in question are covered for only 5 years...no obligation to offer replacement parts after that time (but wish they would). Buy a used Summit on Craigslist? Sorry, you're not the original owner, no warranty for you. Didn't operate the grill according to the instructions? Sorry. Didn't perform routine maintenance as required? Sorry. Leave it out in the rain? Sorry.

In the thread I linked above, Greg Y posted the warranty for the Summit 670 and it says:

  • Aluminum castings 25-years (2 years on paint; excludes fading)
  • Cookbox Assembly 10-years (2 year on paint excludes fading)
So that's double the firebox warranty I got on my 2002 model and Weber should offer those parts for at least 10 years. But in Greg's case, he was not the original owner and he couldn't provide a serial number for the unit, so he fabricated S/S patches to repair the damage.

The big unanswered question is why doesn't Weber use a cast aluminum firebox in its top of the line gasser? Beats me.
Click to expand...

That's interesting - I had been under the impression from reading here that the firebox was a 25 year warranty on the Summits. Not having one it isn't something I've looked up - I was just going off what others had said. While I wouldn't turn down a free Summit, I'm very happy with my S-330 at this time, so it's a bit of a moot point for me, if not for others.
 
The upper aluminum cast part does have a 25 year warranty, but the lower porcelain coated steel portion does not apparently, and that's what is rusting out.

For the 2011 Summit E-420, the warranty is only 2 years on the parts in question, falling under "all remaining parts".

Aluminum castings: 25-years (2 years on paint; excludes fading)
Stainless steel shroud: 25-years
Porcelain-enameled shroud: 25-years
Stainless steel burner tubes: 10-years
Stainless steel cooking grates: 5-years no rust through or burn through
Stainless steel Flavorizer® bars: 5-years no rust through or burn through
Porcelain-enameled cast-iron cooking grates: 5-years no rust through or burn through
Porcelain-enameled cooking grates: 3-years no rust through or burn through
Porcelain-enameled Flavorizer® bars: 2-years no rust through or burn through
Infrared rotisserie burner: 2-years
All remaining parts: 2-years

So this warranty has bounced up and down quite a bit over the years, and thus parts availability, too.
 
Funny the Weber rep I spoke to said the part in question was a 25 year warranty (IIRC) either way the issue with mine began so long ago even if it was a shorter warranty they (Weber) still let me down within the period. Heck when I called Weber I didn't even know it was warranty I was just trying to buy the blasted part! The rep told me it was under warranty and put an order for it as such. She contacted me after that to tell me too bad so sad but we can't honor the warranty because we don't make the part(s). If someone (like say RCPlanebuyer) looked into this perhaps he could fabricate the parts out of quality material. I know it would sure make people like me happy who scrimped and saved for something only to be let down.
Anyway done ranting about it. I know the next new purchase I make where my $$$$ will not go. But thankfully I have discovered the "art of scrounging" on Craigslist LOL. So who knows.......................................................I may never again buy new
 
LMichaels said:
Funny the Weber rep I spoke to said the part in question was a 25 year warranty (IIRC) either way the issue with mine began so long ago even if it was a shorter warranty they (Weber) still let me down within the period. Heck when I called Weber I didn't even know it was warranty I was just trying to buy the blasted part! The rep told me it was under warranty and put an order for it as such. She contacted me after that to tell me too bad so sad but we can't honor the warranty because we don't make the part(s). If someone (like say RCPlanebuyer) looked into this perhaps he could fabricate the parts out of quality material. I know it would sure make people like me happy who scrimped and saved for something only to be let down.
Anyway done ranting about it. I know the next new purchase I make where my $$$$ will not go. But thankfully I have discovered the "art of scrounging" on Craigslist LOL. So who knows.......................................................I may never again buy new
Click to expand...

Interesting thread - I'm wondering how your repair is coming - it's going to be a little work but not too bad I hope.

I'm enjoying the used market for other hobbies.....after I spent enough money to almost be embarrassed.

Seems we learn the hard way.....several times, before we become experts :)

(feel free to email or call if you want more pics or have questions)
 
Chris Allingham said:
The upper aluminum cast part does have a 25 year warranty, but the lower porcelain coated steel portion does not apparently, and that's what is rusting out.

For the 2011 Summit E-420, the warranty is only 2 years on the parts in question, falling under "all remaining parts".

Aluminum castings: 25-years (2 years on paint; excludes fading)
Stainless steel shroud: 25-years
Porcelain-enameled shroud: 25-years
Stainless steel burner tubes: 10-years
Stainless steel cooking grates: 5-years no rust through or burn through
Stainless steel Flavorizer® bars: 5-years no rust through or burn through
Porcelain-enameled cast-iron cooking grates: 5-years no rust through or burn through
Porcelain-enameled cooking grates: 3-years no rust through or burn through
Porcelain-enameled Flavorizer® bars: 2-years no rust through or burn through
Infrared rotisserie burner: 2-years
All remaining parts: 2-years

So this warranty has bounced up and down quite a bit over the years, and thus parts availability, too.
Click to expand...





Chris, where Weber would have a problem is that the entire lower firebox of the earlier Summit 400/600 series and the Summit Silver/Gold grills is considered one part to them. You can't now, nor could you ever, buy just the front or rear panel of the firebox.
 
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