Question about converting from propane to natural gas


 
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Just want to include Weber's position on the subject of fuel conversion.

www.weber.com

Can I Convert My Gas Grill? | Burning Questions | Weber Grills

Due to safety considerations, technological complexity and gas train components, as well as disassembly, Weber doesn’t allow conversions or provide conversion kits.
www.weber.com www.weber.com

...due to safety considerations, the complexity of the technology and gas train components, as well as the level of disassembly required, we don’t allow conversions or provide conversion kits. Converting a grill will actually void the warranty on the unit and might create an unsafe situation.

This situation also extends to cases where someone may take a grill to a different country. Rules, regulations and fuels types vary all across the world, and a grill made for use in one country might not work in another. For instance, a grill made for use in the United Kingdom can’t be converted to work in North America, and vice versa. For more details on taking a grill to another country please click here.

It can be disappointing to learn that your grill can’t be converted, especially if it means you are no longer going to be able to use the grill, but safety should, and does, always come first.
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Chris Allingham said:
Just want to include Weber's position on the subject of fuel conversion.

www.weber.com

Can I Convert My Gas Grill? | Burning Questions | Weber Grills

Due to safety considerations, technological complexity and gas train components, as well as disassembly, Weber doesn’t allow conversions or provide conversion kits.
www.weber.com www.weber.com
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Yes. Weber now wants to sell you another grill when they’re the SAME EXACT grill except for a few parts that can be changed. Could it be because they make more money??? Other grill companies still sell conversion kits.
 
GTNewton said:
Thank you for your warnings and concern for me and others safety.
I’m sorry as this may come off as a bit hard nosed and/or harshly but… who are you to judge me???

What exactly are your qualifications with gas grills?
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We’ve alll judged you so far. Not just one person.

Just being realistic here. You came here for help. Received excellent advice from highly knowledgeable enthusiasts. And then chose to void and ignore all the advice.

Yes, that will cause judgement.
 
GTN: Just keep your eyes on the sale sites like FB MP and CL. I realize you have a newer model Weber grill, but people dump them for a lot of reasons. Moving to a home that doesn't have NG, car ran into it in the garage, it had a nuclear meltdown grease fire, blew off the deck in a wind storm, etc..... A lot of times the put them up for free. Especially NG models because they are a lot harder to sell due to the fuel.

Basically, I would just run it on Propane until a suitable donor grill that shows up that you can steal the manifold off of or maybe even just replace your current grill with that one and sell your old grill.
 
GTNewton said:
Yes. Weber now wants to sell you another grill when they’re the SAME EXACT grill except for a few parts that can be changed. Could it be because they make more money??? Other grill companies still sell conversion kits.
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You are correct that there are some grill companies that sell conversion kits. The one that I know of is Broilmaster. They use valves that work for either fuel type, so just changing the orifices and regulator/line is a relatively easy changeover. On Webers, for whatever reason, this is not the case. The valves are almost always different. In addition, Weber manifolds are long and complex unlike the small one that a Broilmaster uses to feed its old-fashioned bottom bow-tie burner. Changing a Broilmaster manifold is a much less complicated process than the bigger job doing it for a Weber entails. While obviously Weber wants to make money, I really do believe they are mostly interested in preventing lawsuits from non-mechanically inclined owners going in way over their heads trying to make a fuel conversion and winding up with leaking gas and a disastrous fire.


We have probably beat this up all we can. I do feel bad for you that you are in a frustrating position. My ideas, as I have said already, would be to go LP or sell your grill and buy a NG one. If you go through with your conversion attempt, just be careful and let us know - with pictures if possible - how it goes for you.
 
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GTNewton said:
Weber now wants to sell you another grill when they’re the SAME EXACT grill except for a few parts that can be changed.
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But probably not changed by the average customer. And a screw-up in making the change can be dangerous. And I'm pretty sure that wanting a grill that can be easily and safely switched between LP and NG by the end user is a feature no one has ever demanded from any grill manufacturer. Add the litigious nature of things today and I'm not surprised by Weber's position.
 
Chris Allingham said:
But probably not changed by the average customer. And a screw-up in making the change can be dangerous. And I'm pretty sure that wanting a grill that can be easily and safely switched between LP and NG by the end user is a feature no one has ever demanded from any grill manufacturer. Add the litigious nature of things today and I'm not surprised by Weber's position.
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Manufacturer parts liability insurance is so expensive. I deal with it often. And the tail on those coverages is insane. It’s incredibly expensive to become a manufacturer selling consumer or professional parts. And yes, the lawsuits are the reason why.
 
GTNewton said:
Yes. Weber now wants to sell you another grill when they’re the SAME EXACT grill except for a few parts that can be changed. Could it be because they make more money??? Other grill companies still sell conversion kits.
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Hi GT, the article Chris shared is one that I wrote several years ago, and the information still holds true today.

As many have alluded to, conversions, when done incorrectly, can result in extremely dangerous situations. Our stance on conversions does not come from a place of greed. We actually used to sell conversions kits for our grills up until around 2006 or 2007, and were probably making a tidy profit on them. But, back then our gas grills had much simpler gas train systems. They are much more advanced nowadays, and the potential for an incorrectly performed conversion is significantly higher. We certainly aren't here sitting at Weber HQ thinking that telling someone to simply buy another Weber grill setup for the desired fuel type is an ideal situation. Nor do we think that stance is likely to win us any popularity awards. As some have mentioned, there are also major liability concerns that factor into the situation for Weber, and we live in litigious times. Selling a Weber sanctioned conversion kit would be tantamount to condoning the conversion, and we simply can't verify that a conversion has been properly performed. We can't take everyone's word for it that they know how to make the conversion, or are experienced with gas. We don't have anyway to verify that.

I'm quite certain that none of this information makes you any happier with the situation, but I hope it helps shed a bit more light on our stance at Weber on conversions.

Also, please keep in mind that converting your grill will void the warranty, as stated in the owner's manual.


WARNING: Do not modify the appliance (grill). Liquid propane gas is not natural gas. The conversion or attempted use of natural gas in a liquid propane gas unit or liquid propane gas in a natural gas unit is unsafe and will void your warranty

Thanks,
John
 
John Burns said:
Hi GT, the article Chris shared is one that I wrote several years ago, and the information still holds true today.

As many have alluded to, conversions, when done incorrectly, can result in extremely dangerous situations. Our stance on conversions does not come from a place of greed. We actually used to sell conversions kits for our grills up until around 2006 or 2007, and were probably making a tidy profit on them. But, back then our gas grills had much simpler gas train systems. They are much more advanced nowadays, and the potential for an incorrectly performed conversion is significantly higher. We certainly aren't here sitting at Weber HQ thinking that telling someone to simply buy another Weber grill setup for the desired fuel type is an ideal situation. Nor do we think that stance is likely to win us any popularity awards. As some have mentioned, there are also major liability concerns that factor into the situation for Weber, and we live in litigious times. Selling a Weber sanctioned conversion kit would be tantamount to condoning the conversion, and we simply can't verify that a conversion has been properly performed. We can't take everyone's word for it that they know how to make the conversion, or are experienced with gas. We don't have anyway to verify that.

I'm quite certain that none of this information makes you any happier with the situation, but I hope it helps shed a bit more light on our stance at Weber on conversions.

Also, please keep in mind that converting your grill will void the warranty, as stated in the owner's manual.


WARNING: Do not modify the appliance (grill). Liquid propane gas is not natural gas. The conversion or attempted use of natural gas in a liquid propane gas unit or liquid propane gas in a natural gas unit is unsafe and will void your warranty

Thanks,
John
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John,
It’s good to hear from someone at Weber about this. I’ve been a loyal Weber customer for over 40 years.

Please check on or with someone else at Weber and answer the following important question.
Is the only difference between the propane and the natural gas manifold for the Spirit EP-425 models only the orifices?

The schematics show the manifolds have different part numbers but the manifold assembly includes the orifices so it’s possible that may be the only difference.

Thank you.
 
GTNewton said:
John,
It’s good to hear from someone at Weber about this. I’ve been a loyal Weber customer for over 40 years.

Please check on or with someone else at Weber and answer the following important question.
Is the only difference between the propane and the natural gas manifold for the Spirit EP-425 models only the orifices?

The schematics show the manifolds have different part numbers but the manifold assembly includes the orifices so it’s possible that may be the only difference.

Thank you.
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go look at the exploded view of each grill and deduce the different part numbers. then you'll have your answer.

Weber will most likely not enable you with a reply. they want zero liability from your conversion. Mr. Burns made that very clear in his post.

if you're deriving pleasure or personal gain from a Weber product, go buy the version you need or buy a used version of it.
 
Brett-EDH said:
go look at the exploded view of each grill and deduce the different part numbers. then you'll have your answer.

Weber will most likely not enable you with a reply. they want zero liability from your conversion. Mr. Burns made that very clear in his post.

if you're deriving pleasure or personal gain from a Weber product, go buy the version you need or buy a used version of it.
Click to expand...


As I said, the schematics show that the manifolds have different part numbers.
The orifices are not listed separately so the manifold assemblies include the orifices.
That means it’s possible that the orifices may be the only difference in the manifolds.
I just asked John to please check to see if the orifices are the only difference between them.
This should be simple for him or someone else at Weber to do.
 
GTNewton said:
As I said, the schematics show that the manifolds have different part numbers.
The orifices are not listed separately so the manifold assemblies include the orifices.
That means it’s possible that the orifices may be the only difference in the manifolds.
I just asked John to please check to see if the orifices are the only difference between them.
This should be simple for him or someone else at Weber to do.
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As easy as it would be for John to find out this information, I doubt he's able to part with it here to avoid any liability issues. I guess you will find out when you swap the orifices again. Oh, and another casualty of these orifice only conversions are a distinct lack of L/M/H settings once converted. So pay attention to that too.
 
GTNewton said:
As I said, the schematics show that the manifolds have different part numbers.
The orifices are not listed separately so the manifold assemblies include the orifices.
That means it’s possible that the orifices may be the only difference in the manifolds.
I just asked John to please check to see if the orifices are the only difference between them.
This should be simple for him or someone else at Weber to do.
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Hi GT, as Brett and Steve alluded to, I can't really provide much in the way of information that would be used to facilitate a conversion. It could be construed as condoning the action. I can confirm that the manifold assemblies are indeed two different part numbers, and do contain differently sized orifices, but I can't confirm if there are any other differences in the valve/bracket assemblies. My guess is yes, because when I review the BOMs for each version it's all different part numbers all the way down the rabbit hole of the multi-level BOMs. That's about as much info as I can offer. I must reiterate that pursuing the conversion you're attempting is something we highly discourage, but I can appreciate why you'd be interested in doing so, and we're certainly very happy to have you as a loyal Weber fan these past 40 years.
 
John Burns said:
Hi GT, as Brett and Steve alluded to, I can't really provide much in the way of information that would be used to facilitate a conversion. It could be construed as condoning the action. I can confirm that the manifold assemblies are indeed two different part numbers, and do contain differently sized orifices, but I can't confirm if there are any other differences in the valve/bracket assemblies. My guess is yes, because when I review the BOMs for each version it's all different part numbers all the way down the rabbit hole of the multi-level BOMs. That's about as much info as I can offer. I must reiterate that pursuing the conversion you're attempting is something we highly discourage, but I can appreciate why you'd be interested in doing so, and we're certainly very happy to have you as a loyal Weber fan these past 40 years.
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In other words, the valves themselves are probably different as well which is again why orifice only conversions seldom work properly.
 
Steve Hoch said:
In other words, the valves themselves are probably different as well which is again why orifice only conversions seldom work properly.
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Ok, that’s Weber’s prerogative to provide or not provide that information.

Like I said, my grill works ok with natural gas after replacing the orifices and there have been no problems.
I just want the flames to be a little higher.
I’ll see how the newer orifices work after I receive them and let ya’ll know.

Oh, I almost forgot again to answer a previous question… the reason I did this is because I bought a house with natural gas.
Also, saving the $740 to have to buy a new grill plus the savings on gas is more important to me than having a warranty.
 
GTNewton said:
Ok, that’s Weber’s prerogative to provide or not provide that information.

Like I said, my grill works ok with natural gas after replacing the orifices and there have been no problems.
I just want the flames to be a little higher.
I’ll see how the newer orifices work after I receive them and let ya’ll know.

Oh, I almost forgot again to answer a previous question… the reason I did this is because I bought a house with natural gas.
Also, saving the $740 to have to buy a new grill plus the savings on gas is more important to me than having a warranty.
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do as you wish.

of note, should that grill explode or found to be the cause of an insurance claim, rest assured the insurance company will do a thorough investigation to determine liability. you can ask me how i know this.

penny wise and pound foolish. you're only cheating yourself and depriving yourself of the safe pleasure of grilling and not starting a fire or liability event.

with patience and time, you can find a used version of the grill you want/desire and avoid the risk of fire or injury.

but i believe there's no giving sound advice here. so i'm out.

the newspaper headline would read; "buys $400k house and burns it down with $70 homemade NG grill parts."
 
Brett-EDH said:
do as you wish.

of note, should that grill explode or found to be the cause of an insurance claim, rest assured the insurance company will do a thorough investigation to determine liability. you can ask me how i know this.

penny wise and pound foolish. you're only cheating yourself and depriving yourself of the safe pleasure of grilling and not starting a fire or liability event.

with patience and time, you can find a used version of the grill you want/desire and avoid the risk of fire or injury.

but i believe there's no giving sound advice here. so i'm out.

the newspaper headline would read; "buys $400k house and burns it down with $70 homemade NG grill parts."
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Thank you for your advice.

You said ask you how you how you know this, so I’m asking…?
 
GTNewton said:
Thank you for your advice.

You said ask you how you how you know this, so I’m asking…?
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licensed insurance professional. i've seen a few things over the years. some of it really bad. like whole house burn downs. and it was all traced to a wire that got hit by a nail. someone lost big time on that claim. over $1.7m payout for the company that held the liability.

seen it where a person left a steak on a charcoal grill to "run to the store for a quick errand." he came home to 3 backyards and houses on fire, including his own. he only had $500k liability. he's BK now and lost whatever he had.

people that do dumb things really irritate me. because they're too self centered to realize that their decision effect others.
 
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