Problem keeping temps up in WSM


 
M

Mark Etheridge

TVWBB Super Fan
Lately when I cook with my WSM (18.5") I find that I am always having to prop open the access door in order to get and keep the temps up to where I want them.

A little background info...

* My WSM is about 10 yrs old and has been well used but is in excellent shape. Inside has never been cleaned though.

* I use Kingsford Charcoal exclusively.

* For BBQing, I use the Minion method.

* I use water in the pan.

* I light about 30-40 coals to start cooking when BBqing. If it's a high heat cook, I'll light a chimney full then pour an unlit chimney full on top of that and wait for it to light before cooking.

* Lately, when I cook, I'm cooking alot of meat...say 6 slabs at once or 20 chicken thighs BUT I always make sure I have plenty of charcoal in the bowl for the cook. I realize that alot of meat equates to a big heat load.

Anyone got any suggestions?

It's not really a problem but more of an annoyance. I used to be able to control the temps just fine with the vents but that is not the case now and I'm stumped as to what's going on.
 
Mark, interesting problem. If nothing at all has changed and you are not getting the same heat with the same coals and the same amount of meat, perhaps after ten years the walls of the smoker are absorbing your heat, OR, your temp gauge is faulty. My only 2 recommendations are, ditch the water and add another vent. You can also crack open the hood a bit, temps should go up. What temps are you shooting for?

Mark
 
Originally posted by mk evenson:
your temp gauge is faulty.
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This is the first thing I would check. Second is air flow. Make sure the vent holes are in fact wide open. It seems unlikely, but maybe they're so grunged up that they look open but are actually restricted. The next thing I'd do is a good overall cleaning. Again, it seems unlikely, but the grunge inside the wall of the smoker may be so thick as to be causing air flow problems.
 
Mark...Kingsford did change their charcoal to the Surfire Groves configuration during the time I have owned my bullet. I didn't notice the problem when I starting using the new Kingsford though. I did consider that the buildup might be contributing to the situation. Reckon I'll have to clean it.

J...just so i'm clear, Glenn added an extra vent at the top but not at the bottom. I could do that mod but I'm not quite ready to take that step.

Thanks guys.
 
Mark...forgot to mention...the temps I normally use are 225 for butts, 250 for ribs and 350 for chicken. But no matter what the target temp is, I still have to prop the door open to get there.

My temp probes are as old as the WSM. I haven't checked them but sounds like I better.
 
Originally posted by Mark Etheridge:
* For BBQing, I use the Minion method.

* I use water in the pan.

* I light about 30-40 coals to start cooking when BBqing. If it's a high heat cook, I'll light a chimney full then pour an unlit chimney full on top of that and wait for it to light before cooking.
Click to expand...

Reading through this, the Minion Method (if I'm not mistaken) is lit charcoal over unlit, not the way you describe. Try putting unlit charcoal in the chamber first and then put your lit charcoal on top of that. Also, what is the temp of you water? Is it cold or hot? If it's cold, it's certainly taking a lot of heat to warm it up.
 
Mark, my smoker runs pretty cool too, and isn't even two years old.

To give a description of how I use my 18.5" wsm, I rarely do HH cooks anymore, even for chicken, and I smoke with K bluebag for day cooks and lower ash briqs like Stubbs for overnighters. Unless it's the rare HH cook, I always use water in the pan and typically cook just about as much meat as I can fit on, in the 235-250* range, measured at the vent with a therm I've tested in boiling water for 212*.

I let meat sit out for a while to lose it's chill, with the exception of brisket and let the cooker get up to temp by using more lit, typically a whole chimney, unseating the dome a bit if necessary. Always pour hot water in the pan. If the temp drops too much after putting the meat on I'll unseat the lid again slightly until the temp reaches ten degrees or so hotter than what I want to target, and I'll often go whole cooks with the vents 100% open, or nearly that. I can't think of anything else other than occasionally tapping the cooker legs to knock some of that K ash off the briqs every few hours. You could also try some better briqs like Stubbs or Wicked Good.

One more thing is to make sure you don't use a windbreak the wrong way. I've learned the hard way not to keep the only wind-exposed vent downwind. Also, if you ever use a plastic or split metal drum around the cooker, DO raise it up a bit on blocks so that air can hit the vents from all around the drum. I learned that the hard way, too.

Hope something might've helped.
 
Thanks for some really good info, Dave. I don't remember seeing this from you (during the past year). I like the suggestion for K during the day, and other for overnight to address the ash concern.

Frankly, I think the ash with K is the culprit for low temps. Possibly as the charcoal grate ages and gets rough, the ash has more drag and doesn't fall through as easily. I have a special problem as I wired another charcoal grate into the bottom of my charcoal ring -- so there are two level of grate for the ash to cling to. I've learned to be sure the grates are lined up bar over bar to help (rather than criss-crossed to help retain small pieces of lump).

But either way, at times I have trouble keeping temps up which gently stirring the coals seems to fix better than anything else (which also suggests it's ash buildup).

One more question here Dave, since you brought it up. What do you mean by, "One more thing is to make sure you don't use a windbreak the wrong way. I've learned the hard way not to keep the only wind-exposed vent downwind." I'm just confused by the wording. I've actually never used a windbreak due to prevailing winds and the position of my house most of the year, but I know I'll need it sometime.

Rich
 
Thanks for the responses everyone.

Dave...your description pretty much mirrors what I do nowadays (vents wide open...hot water in the pan including refills) although I don't use a whole chimney of lit. Will have to start lighting more off and see what that does.

I have noticed the less water in the pan equates to higher temps but that is to be expected. Anyone had this issue with sand instead of water??
 
Rich, regarding windbreaks, it's easy to see how that something around the cooker or in front of can help protect the heat from the chill of a breeze. The thing is, I've found on more than one occasion that if the windbreak is flush with the ground or patio slab, I won't get the draft I need. I must confess that this is a lesson I learned a few years ago but forgot. I had a UDS that I made with one slider vent on the bottom, and it worked pretty well. However, I had problems with the wind. If I turned the vent TOWARD the wind, temps could really go up, so I'd have to shut it back a lot, then if the wind died down, it would need to be opened back up. Anyway, I got the idea to plug in a small fan and just set it up in front of the vent to help regulate ventilation. Problem solved.

Like I said though, I completely forgot to apply what I learned from the UDS with the wsm...maybe since the wsm has three vents, not one, and I never used a windbreak with my drum either. When Mac (?) suggested using the plastic drum for a wsm windbreak (mods section?), I didn't get why he had it up on bricks, and in my first cook inside a plastic drum, draft wasn't an issue since there was little wind...just cold temps. Well, like I believe I posted later, I found out that he was completely right. You most certainly don't want the wind to be hitting the cooker from the opposite side of the only major source of ventilation. Perhaps I've observed this more easily in my cooker since it's got a tight-fitting door and good sectional fit, but how this translates to NOT using a windbreak in a steady wind is just the same: Don't have the prevailing wind hitting the cooker from the opposite side of the only opened vent. Things might be fine for a while, but you'll really see the temp go down as ash accumulates on the briqs or if the wind picks up more.
 
Originally posted by Mark Etheridge:
Thanks for the responses everyone.

Dave...your description pretty much mirrors what I do nowadays (vents wide open...hot water in the pan including refills) although I don't use a whole chimney of lit. Will have to start lighting more off and see what that does.

I have noticed the less water in the pan equates to higher temps but that is to be expected. Anyone had this issue with sand instead of water??
Click to expand...

Mark, I must confess that I haven't tried the sand, but I have read many posts about how it takes a long time time for the sand to cool back down if temps get away from you.

From my experience though with a dry foiled pan, the only way temps really get away from me is if I leave the lid off for a long time, and I suspect your cooker is the same. I also will tell you that I don't think we use too much more charcoal with water than without, at least not as much more as you might think.

Maybe Rich is onto something regarding the charcoal grate and ash. I find myself tapping the legs on my cooker repeatedly when using K, and maybe you might have possibly gotten some briqs that were exposed to some moisture?
 
Thanks for the extra information about the windbreak, Dave. You answered my question completely -- plus more. I think there is more to the windbreaks than we might expect -- like the wind coming from the opposite side -- that's a "gotcha".

And I agree about possible damp charcoal. I had one suspect cook with previously opened briquettes at a very humid time. Maybe that wasn't the problem, but it did occur to me. (Gee, does living in the South have something to do with this?
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)

Rich
 
You're welcome, Rich. Just posting what I've observed. Ya know, funny you mention the humidity of the south. I've often been puzzled by how so many folks are so pleased with Kingsford blue bag and deny any issues with ash suffocation. I wonder if the satisfaction is higher in areas with lower humidity.
 
Originally posted by Dave Russell:
You're welcome, Rich. Just posting what I've observed. Ya know, funny you mention the humidity of the south. I've often been puzzled by how so many folks are so pleased with Kingsford blue bag and deny any issues with ash suffocation. I wonder if the satisfaction is higher in areas with lower humidity.
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Good point -- I hope others will respond with their experience and their location in the country. Or maybe we should run a poll (if anyone is interested -- mostly it just works
icon_wink.gif
).

Rich
 
I bought my WSM cooker because of it's reputation for holding steady temps. I haven't been disappointed. I just finished a 6 hour smoke of a couple of racks of St. Louis ribs yesterday. They were great.

My smoker is one of the new 18.5" WSM, with the large water pan. It will hold 225-235 all day with the bottom vents open 1/8, and the top vent open all of the way. If I open the bottom vents to 1/4 the temp soars to 285. With the bottom vents open 1/2 way I get 345. I've never tried running the bottom vents wide open for an extended period of time.

When I first start the smoke I run the bottom vents wide open until the temp reaches 215. I then close the vents down to 1/8 open. The vents stay at this setting until my smoke is over.

My smoker is new, and it only has 10 smokes on it. So I understand that it is running hotter then a WSM that is completely broken in. What I'm having trouble with here is how a fire that is given plenty of fuel, and air isn't able to burn hot. What causes this anomaly, and what can be done to remedy it?
 
J...just so i'm clear, Glenn added an extra vent at the top but not at the bottom. I could do that mod but I'm not quite ready to take that step.

Thanks guys.[/QUOTE]

Correct, I done this on both of mine. To me it makes sense because you are going from a 9 to 3 ratio to a 9 to 6 ratio. (this on a 18.5)

Works like a charm for cooks above 275 with ease!
 
Originally posted by Neal W. (Mashpee, MA):
...If I open the bottom vents to 1/4 the temp soars to 285. With the bottom vents open 1/2 way I get 345. I've never tried running the bottom vents wide open for an extended period of time...My smoker is new, and it only has 10 smokes on it. So I understand that it is running hotter then a WSM that is completely broken in.
Click to expand...

Neither the smoker's "broken-in-ness", fuel used, altitude, or weather will account for a wsm holding temps ^^^^^THAT HIGH.^^^^^

The only significant reason I can think of for wsm temps that high is lots of AIR, as in less than stellar fit of sections, lid, and/or the door. Am I missing something here? I've used several different fuels in my 18.5" over the last year and a half... and spent WAY too much time on the internet gleaning what helpful info I could find....

Anyway, if it works for ya, that's fine, especially if you like to cook HH. However, from what I've read here and elsewhere though, it seems like the majority of wsm users are like myself and unless using an automatic temp control device, won't attempt HH cooks without cracking the door or unseating the lid, (which is what I often do at the start to help get up to cooking temp.)It would stand to reason to me that the lower the ventilation is, as in the lower vents doing most of the ventilation work, the less moisture and heat lost, and probably a bit more evenness of cooking as well. The lessons I learned from my UDS (upright drum smoker), in which the only sources of ventilation are below the fire grate and at the lid, seem to bare this out.
 
Dave, I can't comment on what you are getting for temps in your WSM. I can only comment on what temps I've experienced with mine. I measure my temps with the lid Thermometer, and I use another in the top vent hole. The Weber OEM thermometer indicates about 25 degrees cooler then the thermometer in the vent. I checked the one in the vent in boiling water.

I've never attempted a HH cook with the Weber WSM. That isn't what I purchased it for. I cook low and slow with it, and my vents are never open more then 1/8 after the smoker has reached the target temp which is 225 to 235 degrees. As I've already stated my WSM will hold that temp all day. The fact that my smoker is new may allow more air to enter the cooker. That also may influence my temps. After only 10 cooks I don't have a lot of build up.

I use the Minion method with Kingsford blue exclusively. I use fruit woods such as either apple, peach, or cherry for smoke.

I was curious to see if I was the only one who reached such high temps with a WSM. I found that I'm not. I'm going to a post by Lew Newby who did a test burn of a new WSM. He has experienced things that I haven't with his cooker. One was the flip flop of the grate, and lid temp. I will check for that with my next cook.

Weber 18.5" WSM, 22.5" OTG

"Sorry for the length of this. I won't be cooking until this weekend and I wanted to do a test run. I did a boiling water calibration on the WSM thermometer and it read 8 degrees low. For the test run I recorded the lid temp and the top grate temp (with an ET-73). I wanted to see what the top temp would be, how long it would take to bring the temp down, and how long a chimney of briquettes would last. There was no meat in the cooker and that would change the dynamics.

I'm sure this seems silly but I wanted to see how different this was than the ECB I learned on and wanted to avoid the runaway I had with it on my first cook.

What was interesting was that when I reached max temp and adjusted the lower vents to 1/4 open the grate temp quickly got hotter than the lid temperature. Does anyone know why?

Here's the log. I tried to clean up the formatting but alas.

WSM Test Burn
Sunday, May 01, 2011
2:25 PM
Cooker: Weber Smokey Mountain(WSM)
Water pan and clay saucer wrapped with foil

NO MEAT - The Lid Thermometer reads 8? low at 212?F - Boiling water calibration
Using the Maverick ET-73 on the top grate. After the temp peaks with all vents full open I want to see how long it takes to get to 250?F when I close all the lower vents to 1/4 open.

Time Cooker Target Temp Cooker Actual Temp Meat Temp Ambient Temp
Weather

2:20 PM Lid Top Grate 83?/Sun and Windy Testing - Added one full chimney of lit charcoal.
2:30 PM 342?F 328?F All vents full open
2:40 PM 350? 344?F
2:50 PM 351? 344?
2:51 PM 351? 344? Adjusted all lower vents to 1/4 open. Top vent full open. This is time zero.
3:00 PM 322? 335? Interesting! Top grate temp is now higher - Heat sink effect?
3:10 PM 320? 322? First drop 9? in 9 minutes, this drop 13? in 10 minutes
3:20 PM 310? 312? Temp dropped 10? in 10 minutes. 29 minutes elapsed time.
3:30 PM 302? 305? Temp dropped 8? in 10 minutes. Completely closed my 2 upwind lower vents.
4:30 PM 250? 268 Stirred the coals. Temp shot up 30? in the lid and 15? at the top grate. 1 hr. 29 min. elapsed
5:20 220 250? The temp died down because the charcoal is almost all burned up.
6:05 220? End of test. Charcoal lasted 3 hr 45 min.

Max temp in the lid was 351.F
Max temp at the grate was 344 F
Charcoal lasted 3hr 45 min.
I don't understand why the lid and top grate temperatures flip flopped when I adjusted the vents.

Lesson learned - Stop the temp climb before it gets out of hand."

Smile, it's contagious. - -18.5" WSM, Weber Kettle, ECB, Char Griller Smokin Pro

http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/...0022865/m/2021078216
 
Hi Neal...

Its interesting seeing the temps flip-flop, isn't it? Let me tell you about my experiments with both the WSM, and an offset smoker.

In the WSM, I used to have sand in the pan for the first 3 cooks, but after that I used an mt brinkman charcoal pan only. It did the same thing as the sand. Never had any problems controlling the temps, with the sand, or the empty foiled up pan.

But testing both the offset smoker & the WSM, they show the same results early, but completely the oposite way...in the WSM I used to have the lid temps down about 65 degrees (once I put the meat on) compared to the Mav 73, at bellow the top grate. But in about 2 hrs the temps evened out.

In the offset smoker I installed an ATC, and now I let the DigiQ do the work....but before that, I did it manually.

And when I put the meat on, the temps at the lid were the high temps, and the temps at below the grate were the low temps...about the same 65 degrees. Here, the temps evened out in about 3 hrs, and they flip-flop shortly after, when the below grate temps became the higher temps compared to the lid temps. The difference is about 10 degrees.

We had discussions about this, and the general feedback I had, was that is really not that important what temps we're going by...in the long run things even out, and the meat will be done, and once done, the meat is delicious.

But I always was puzzled why the temp readings are the same with an empty grate, compared when the meat is on. Without the meat, the temps are almost identical....225 on my Mav 73, compared to 223 at the lid. With the meat on, the temps below the grate are staying steady at 225, but the temps at the lid are howering around 165. I was under the impression that the difference is the meat temps which are cold...around 45-50 degrees, and somehow that cold temp is pushed up towards the lid temps gauge, hence the lower readings. That had to be the answer, for the difference was showing only when the meat was put on the grate....right?

Well....not so fast....here's my latest experiment.

Before, when I wanted the target temps on the offset smoker, I ran up the temps to about 300 degrees, then slowly choked off the air, by closing the wents and leaving the top vent open about 50%...that made the temps drop quite fast, and in a few minutes The temps reached the target range of 225 degrees. So I tried the same method on the WSM just a few days ago...

I let the temps climb to about 300 degrees, all vents wide open, then I put the meat on, and started to watch if the temps climb back to 300 degrees. They did, and to my surprise, BOTH the Mav, and the lid gauge stayed very close to each other, around 300 degrees.

Onced I closed the bottom vents 100%, and closed the top vent about 75%, the temps dropped pretty fast to about 235 degrees, at which point I started to open all 3 bottom vents about 25%....the temps stabilized around 215, then started to climb back to about 225, and stayed the same. The difference was, that for the first time both gagues showed the same temps...all the temp differences from the past dissapeared....how come?

Now I'm even more puzzled....
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Trying to bring down the high temps to the target range might be a bit harder, compared to regulate the temps on their way up....but will give out accurate readings on both the Mav, and the lid gauge. That's the lesson I learned, but I need to see a few more experimants, before I am sold on this....time will tell.
 
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