Pit Boss Phoenix Kettle: Why isn't Weber making one?

[Jon Tofte]

I promised some follow-up on my recently acquired new Pit Boss Phoenix pellet kettle. I bought it to replace my beautiful Spider Huntsman whose charcoal flavor didn’t sit well with my wife.



I have been holding on to a diamond pattern cast iron 22” grate for this kind of application. My first cook was done using this rather than the unimpressive folding grate that Pit Boss supplies. I made sure the Phoenix was up to the max 500 degrees and gave it extra time for the cast iron to get hot.

The steaks were fair at best with minimal sear effect. It was a hot summer day, but it hauntingly reminded me of doing steaks on my former Huntsman in the winter . I could hear The Who singing about not getting fooled again!

On my next try, I again gave the Phoenix plenty of time but used a rub on my Sam’s slider burgers that features black salt, I guess in hopes of obtaining more attractive results. (The steaks I had previously done had a mild Jack Stack BBQ steak seasoning I had bought on my trip to Kansas City.) The burgers tasted better than the steaks, and there was at least a little sizzle when I set the sliders on the cast iron:



OK, I thought, but other than a little bit of pellet smoke flavor, my gas Summit could have done much better.

A NEW IDEA

About this time, I was trying to repair the Landmann pellet kettle I had bought unused at a furniture discount store. It was originally sold for a time at Sam’s Club. I bought it cheap and got a number of really good cooks from it. My main gripe was that it was 21 inches in diameter and could not interface with Weber 22 inch kettle grates and accessories. Then, the glow plug failed, and while getting a replacement proved easy enough, installing it was another matter. After hours of disassembly, I still could not access the glow plug to replace it. In comparison, that’s a 10 minute job on my Recteq. I finally through in the towel and turned the heap of parts into scrap.

One thing I did really like about the Landmann was the heavy gauge stainless diffuser that had a spinning top that allowed some open access to the firepot below when being used for high heat grilling but which could be closed for low and slow:



With this diffuser open, the Landmann absolutely could sear:



So, the thought came to me of keeping the Landmann difuser and using it in my Phoenix.

 

[Jon Tofte]

EXPERIMENTING

The Phoenix comes with a small stainless cap that is the first heat deflector. Then on top is a kind of basket shaped overall diffuser that doubles as a charcoal tray if you choose to use it in that mode - or combine pellet and charcoal cooking as Tom Horsman demonstrates in a couple of his videos.





To apply my idea, I removed both of these and then placed the Landmann diffuser over the open firepot. Happily, it rested pretty well with adequate clearance. Firing it up, the flame from the firepot was visible similar to how the Landmann had looked:



Now to try. Our garage refrigerator died, so we were under pressure to use up some frozen items including this Salmon. I was definitely happier with how the Phoenix now cooked:



There was more sizzle, but still not all that I hoped for when wanting this pellet kettle to be a viable choice for weekday grilling. I thought some more and recalled Tom Horsman using GrillGrate grates very successfully on his Phoenix…

 

[Jon Tofte]

NOW WE’RE TALKING

I know GrillGrate grates are controversial. I absolutely do not want to re-open that debate. I am only posting the results of my experimentation with the Phoenix pellet kettle.

This afternoon called for grilled pork chops. I placed an old set of GrillGrate grates I had on my Phoenix, resting them on an old Weber cooking grate. (The compatibility aspect is a BIG plus for this grill.)



GrillGrate makes a special set of grates with angles that more fully utilizes the 22” cooking space, but these are adequate for now.

I tried to give the Phoenix time to get up to 500, but it seemed to stall out 430. With family waiting, I finally tried my infrared thermometer to check the temperature of the GrillGrate grates and was relieved to find them in the mid 600 degree mark. The GrillGrate grates had held much of the heat below.

The pork chops went on with a nice loud sizzle and cooked up as fast - and well - as on my gas grill:



These chops got a thumbs up from the whole family.

The best part was my wife saying they tasted good with no hint of charcoal or heavy smoke. Hers was the bland looking one devoid of Dizzy Pig Tsunami Spin rub used on the others.

As the comedian Jeff Allen says, “Happy wife, happy life!”

 

[Josh Dekubber]

Very cool Jon! Thanks for sharing

 

[Bruce]

Classic grill marks

 

[BobH-SCW]

Jon, I knew the Grill Grates would help it out! Surprised the ci grate didn't boost the temps more for you though. That Phoenix looks great!

 

[LMichaels]

Temps are temps IDK why anyone thinks those items will "boost temps"? There are a lot more as I think he really likes the PB Phoenix so here is one on it from Tom Horsman

 

[Jon Tofte]

I will continue to experiment.

On the list to try soon, I hope, is using a kettle rotisserie attachment that - thanks to the size compatibility - will fit perfectly on this Pit Boss Phoenix.

This seems like such an obvious market opportunity for Weber. A pellet kettle using Weber's quality kettles - and hopefully offering several colors! - could be a great product. And all of Weber's kettle accessories are ready to add. If Weber could take some pointers from Recteq and make theirs readily capable of 600 degrees (I tend to ignore the 1000 degree craziness that Recteq promotes on their more powerful Bullseye Deluxe), I think it would sell very well. If it existed already, I wouldn't be cooking on a Pit Boss.

 

[Jon Tofte]

Jon, I knew the Grill Grates would help it out! Surprised the ci grate didn't boost the temps more for you though. That Phoenix looks great!

Thanks, Bob! It made me happy to salvage the best part from my now scrapped Landmann kettle. I think it is an effective mod and an improvement for this Pit Boss that I have no intention of using charcoal in. (That would defeat the whole purpose I switched from my beloved by me but unloved by my wife Spider Huntsman.) Still, I am of course keeping all the original insert parts.

I haven't given up on using the cast iron grate. I will continue to experiment. The aluminum GrillGrate grates don't make the grill hotter - actually seemed to have the opposite effect - but they do radiate heat very effectively as shown by the pretty high grate temps, while the Phoenix temp probe was only reading 430. I think the cast iron setup Tom has with the half griddle and a lot smaller openings than my diamond grate would absorb a lot more heat and make searing easier. (See Larrry's post of his video using that.) I think that maybe too much heat just blows past my very open grate and out the top vent. Maybe something to aim for in the future.

 

[LMichaels]

Or perhaps turning the WSK into a very high quality pellet kettle?

 

[Jon Tofte]

Or perhaps turning the WSK into a very high quality pellet kettle?

That would be very cool! Afraid of the price tag, and you lose the compatibility with an abundance of 22" accessories. However, you make a big gain with the double-wall insulation that would go VERY well with a pellet grill configuration.

@John Burns I know you can't give away development secrets, but I would love to know if a Weber pellet kettle has been given any serious consideration!

 

[Jim Weber]

Looks like its a direct competitor to the RecTec Bullseye pellet grill --- a set up I've thought about myself for a while.

Honestly --- I don't understand why so many people have the expectations to sear on a pellet grill/smoker.... Sure - the makers 'say' it can be done, but it seems to me in my mind that pellet cookers are meant to be a low to medium heat cooker - and to ask them to get blazing hot is just asking for grease fires and disappointing results. As I've stated elsewhere - I am more than impressed with the sear and grate marks that my Q can put out even at 400-450 --- one of these days I'll be brave enuff to try running it up over 500 to see what it can REALLY do.

To me it seems like the best route is to do a reverse sear with smoking on the pellet and firing up the Q for the final sear and marking --- just so much easier and predictable - not to mention not wasting a lot of pellets.

 

[Jon Tofte]

Jim, I agree that pellet grills are not the choice for searing. What I wanted was an alternative to only using my gas grill for weekday cooking. Charcoal is not an option with my wife’s intolerance to it. So I was hoping I could do burgers, chicken, fish and pork chops on a pellet based grill that my wife will tolerate - and I would still enjoy.

A second, but still important consideration, was the ability to utilize my Weber kettle accessories.

So, I think this Pit Boss Phoenix is looking promising to fulfill those missions. It certainly would work to first smoke on it and then reverse sear on one of my gas grills. However, that would potentially push me into the danger zone, if the meal involves my wife. If just for me, that’s when I get to pull out a kettle or other charcoal grill!

 

[LMichaels]

Maybe her issue isn't the type of cooking and fuel but maybe the quality of the fuel being used. I.E. I have made no secret of my dislike of the chemical aroma of many briquette style charcoals. Kingsford being one of the worst IMO. When my neighbor starts a chimney of it I almost have to go inside the house. Smells like the refineries near Joliet

 

[Jon Tofte]

Maybe. But Jealous Devil, Blues Hog and other good brands don’t seem to do any better, although I am not convinced that some of this isn’t just psychological.

I am happy the Pit Boss passed the first big test with my wife, and I have enjoyed doing mods to get it to be more enjoyable for me to cook on.

 

[LMichaels]

Isn't that Pit Boss the one that can use both pellets and charcoal at the same time for extra heat? IIRC I saw Horsman doing that with it. Maybe try lump very little smoke or aroma

 

[Jon Tofte]

Yes, it is. I agree lump is best. I might try that someday - maybe even sneak it in one time! Still, I am happy with just the pellet grilling which is what I bought it for.

I asked Tom Horsman about the carbon steel half griddle, half diamond pattern grate in the video posted above. He kindly came up with the name, and I found that the maker has a store on Amazon. $80, which seems fair, but I will have to wait a while. Might be the best choice long-term, though.

 

[BobH-SCW]

Tom Horsman used one from Outfitters Edge on the Bullseye a year ago, but that one is $135. His newer offering seems like a better deal; it might also allow a better end result for searing burgers, steaks and chops on the Pitboss. It has top end temp limits that mine doesn't, but perhaps steel can help in that regard. Perhaps "temp boost" was incorrect on my part, but those grill grates seem to aid in searing? Not sure if thats correct either, but you know what I mean. I don't have those temp limits on mine, but that grate is interesting.

Larry, I watched his video also on the Recteq Bullseye using a Solo bottom plate to hold charcoal-I think his main desire is to get more smoke output. He also just tried some JD flex hardwood briquets in a Traeger for more smoke. I think he perhaps likes a lot of smoke in his cooks, far more than I would

I have no intention of adding the charcoal mod to my Bullseye -in fact, I have been using a small ss chip box which I fill with different chips for smoke and flavor, and it works quite well. I also use it in my Q and Silver A with great success. Just the right amount of smoke and flavor for me. These pellet grills were designed for hot and fast, which is my primary usage as I don't do low and slow. They were meant for those of us who want to utilize the benefits of pellets as a kettle replacement. I can use my ci insert for the GBS grates, put a drip pan underneath, and do several ribeyes like I'm cooking on charcoal with no grease fire. Same with chicken.

I agree with Jon- Weber missed to boat on that idea. Their porcelain kettles would have been ideal for that use, and they perhaps could have gotten it done for less than Recteqs' current pricing. I think the cost of a pellet WSK would have been prohibitive. Perhaps Blackstone has some say in their future R&D?

 

[LMichaels]

On the grills TH is using with some of the mods I honestly have no experience with and haven't even seen one yet, (though I did come across the big Traeger IIRC Woodwind Pro XL at of all places Best Buy. Oooof VERY nice pit/grill but at over $4k WAY too rich for my blood. But, I sure would not look cross-eyed at one if it appeared on my deck. Honestly looking at the construction, build quality and the innovations in it blows anything from Weber outta the water, BUT then, it's close to 3X more $$$$ so IMO it better.
Jon, I'd be curious if you do sneak using some good lump in to your cook if that doesn't get rid of the wife's aversion to charcoal. Because quite honestly I want nothing to do with the smell of Kingsford (and a few others like it) on my food. Oh, it's sort of "nostalgic" getting the whiffs of petrochem smells but, not something I care for on my food anymore. Which is why on the very rare occasion I use coal it's lump only. I joke and tell people my nose is like a shop vac