pan water or not?
- Thread starter Ron Fisher
- Start date
Ron Fisher
TVWBB Member
Very good question Bob and one I found very interesting after reading how many people don't use water. It seems to be more about the messy clean-up than anything.
Ron
glen jones
TVWBB Pro
When I had one I ran water pan empty and then started using it without water pan at all.....love the drippings hitting the coals.
Enrico Brandizzi
TVWBB Honor Circle
As We say IN MEDIO STAT VIRTUS!
I only use my WSM with ATC (in the last year)
I have removed water pan with a pizza stone in my 22 WSM.
I put a disposable pan on the pizza stone to catch the melted fat.
In the disposable pan I pur 1 liter of water that last 4-7 at 250F (grate T).
That is enough for smoke ring building in the first part of my cooking process.
Then i decide: I can pur 1 more liter or just stop.
In this way I don't Consume tons of charcoal or and wood.
I only use my WSM with ATC (in the last year)
I have removed water pan with a pizza stone in my 22 WSM.
I put a disposable pan on the pizza stone to catch the melted fat.
In the disposable pan I pur 1 liter of water that last 4-7 at 250F (grate T).
That is enough for smoke ring building in the first part of my cooking process.
Then i decide: I can pur 1 more liter or just stop.
In this way I don't Consume tons of charcoal or and wood.
Matt H.
TVWBB Super Fan
Yeah. I understand it. I've tried both and I agree it's a minimal difference, but outside of the heavier fuel consumption and the minimal clean up, I don't see any downside to using water and it's easier to control for me and I do think the water benefits easy to dry out meats like brisket or ribs. Though I don't like foiling either and I imagine that might counteract some of the benefits of water. As to the op I'd say try both and see what works for you.
Charlie L
TVWBB Super Fan
It truly is a personal preference. Best advice, do one cook with, one without.
Chances are you will find:
With Water, temps are more stable as the water is absorbing heat. This is more effective if you prefer to cook at lower temps like 225 (as the water boils at 212), less so at higher temps.
Without Water, temp will come up quicker when you start and fuel will last longer since you aren't using energy to heat the water.
Weather the moisture in the smoker affects the moisture of the meat is a point of debate.
Personally I use an ATC so i use a foiled empty water pan that acts as a heat deflector and dripping catcher.
ONE LAST POINT: If you start empty and temp is running away, you can add water mid cook to bring temp back down, however removing water to raise temp mid cook is not so easy.
Again, figure out what works for you. Experimentation is part of the process.
Chances are you will find:
With Water, temps are more stable as the water is absorbing heat. This is more effective if you prefer to cook at lower temps like 225 (as the water boils at 212), less so at higher temps.
Without Water, temp will come up quicker when you start and fuel will last longer since you aren't using energy to heat the water.
Weather the moisture in the smoker affects the moisture of the meat is a point of debate.
Personally I use an ATC so i use a foiled empty water pan that acts as a heat deflector and dripping catcher.
ONE LAST POINT: If you start empty and temp is running away, you can add water mid cook to bring temp back down, however removing water to raise temp mid cook is not so easy.
Again, figure out what works for you. Experimentation is part of the process.
Shawn W
TVWBB Emerald Member
Water ... a tool in the toolbox
If you live on the Gulf Coast (sea level) and the ambient temp is 100ºF on a given day and the sun is shining directly on your black WSM you may very well NEED the heatsink water affords in the pan to keep the temp down to your desired target. At my elevation of 3500 ft, on the same day the temp isn't likely to be above 85ºF plus the oxygen level is lower at my altitude.
Putting all of that together I used water as a tool in my kamado (Big Steel Keg) to manage a 27 hour stable 160ºF home cured back bacon smoke. I used my 2 gallon Brinkmann pan filled with water and covered with foil. In my WSM I would fill the water pan with ice then top with water for a cheese smoke in July because I want the biggest heat sink I can find to help keep the dome temp below 100ºF.
I had a revelation during a 28 hour 20+lb chuck roll cook in -40ºF weather ... if I am having trouble keeping the temp up to 225ºF why am I using water (a heat sink)?
*One more thing, in my experience with water in the WSM I noticed I got the rust colored lid flakes, when not using water my WSM became coated internally with black tar.
I think of water as a tool in the toolbox. In general I prefer not to use it. It is a major heatsink and given it evaporates over time it causes temp instability (if you are like me you will lose many hours of sleep doing overnighters). The second thing I don't like about using water, in general, is that it causes load. I have to burn and pay for more charcoal than if I used a static, greatly reduced 'load' solution like foil balls in the water pan covered by foil. What we want the diffuser solution (water pan) to do is block direct radiant heat. That's it. View using water in it as a discretionary tool.
If you live on the Gulf Coast (sea level) and the ambient temp is 100ºF on a given day and the sun is shining directly on your black WSM you may very well NEED the heatsink water affords in the pan to keep the temp down to your desired target. At my elevation of 3500 ft, on the same day the temp isn't likely to be above 85ºF plus the oxygen level is lower at my altitude.
Putting all of that together I used water as a tool in my kamado (Big Steel Keg) to manage a 27 hour stable 160ºF home cured back bacon smoke. I used my 2 gallon Brinkmann pan filled with water and covered with foil. In my WSM I would fill the water pan with ice then top with water for a cheese smoke in July because I want the biggest heat sink I can find to help keep the dome temp below 100ºF.
I had a revelation during a 28 hour 20+lb chuck roll cook in -40ºF weather ... if I am having trouble keeping the temp up to 225ºF why am I using water (a heat sink)?
*One more thing, in my experience with water in the WSM I noticed I got the rust colored lid flakes, when not using water my WSM became coated internally with black tar.
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I personally fill the water pan with sand, and on top of the pan sitting on the sand is a clay pot saucer. Works great for me and I am able to hold my temps rock solid for hours. My motivation is three fold I get the heat sink temperature control of water without the mess and hassle of water, and I found with ribs I got a better bark which I prefer.
Craig Alumbaugh
TVWBB Guru
Hey Charlie what is an ATC, just curious to what it is. Thanks
Ron Fisher
TVWBB Member
Excellent response thank you Shawn. Makes perfect sense. I do like Gary's idea below of using sand topped with a foil wrapped clay saucer. Heat sink without refills.
Off the topic but I've been making bacon for a while now. I use a converted refrigerator with a hot plate on a temperature controller (my poor man's Sous Vide controller). I only smoke my bacon for an hour or so with Alder wood. 27 hours? What is that bacon like and what kind of wood are you using?
Shawn W
TVWBB Emerald Member
That sounds like a great solution, I haven't tried that combination. It addresses my concerns with water of 'major' heatsink that evaporates causing temp fluctuations while costing me more charcoal. To my layman eyes sand is about 1/5 the heatsink water is (has 1/5 the specific heat rating) of water according to this chart:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-capacity-d_391.html
The lost sleep comment: I wasn't very clear ... when I started with the WSM I got an ET-73 and set my alarms at +/- 10ºF
. To start over again I would set my alarms at more like +30/-20 and not use water and if my burn was stable I wouldn't get woken up very often.About the bacon:
Here is an old pic of some back (Canadian) bacon I made on my WSM:
I don't remember the details but the cook would have been something like 200ºF until 140ºF internal ... a few hours.
Flash forward to the 27 hour 160ºF cook I mentioned:
If you compare the two the exterior of the higher temp cook looks partially cooked, the lower temp cook not so much. Does that answer your question?
Bacon smoke wood:
It varies, I'm partial to a mix of cherry and hickory for bacon.
*The lower temp cook unfortunately got over-cured I think and that's why it's a bit crumbly. They were both brine cured, the second was also injected and was supposed to be smoked in 3 days but stuff came up and it was 10 days before I got around to it.
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Todd Phillips
TVWBB Pro
Ron Fisher
TVWBB Member
So I did my second WSM cook last night.. 9lb pork butt started at midnight minion. No water in the pan, just balled up foil with a foil topper. It was about 260 when I went to bed with the bottom vents at 1/3 open. Got up at 5am and the cooker was 330 at the top rack. The butt was already 174... Sheeeeet! I closed off the bottom vents except one and poured cold water in the pan after messily removing the foil. Fast forward to 12 hours into the cook and my butt (which fell in temp to 160) is now at 180 and the cooker is much more stable at 230. Had to add coal because of the hot overnight cook.
Moral of the story I need to do some work on keeping my temps down without water. Maybe just one vent at 1/3 and the others closed would have controlled the heat better?
Moral of the story I need to do some work on keeping my temps down without water. Maybe just one vent at 1/3 and the others closed would have controlled the heat better?
Todd Phillips
TVWBB Pro
How long was it running before you went to bed? I always let it run a few hrs before I bail on it. If it's super warm you can crack the bottom vents to just a sliver with top wide open. No worries thou. Practice makes perfect.
Charlie L
TVWBB Super Fan
ATC = Automatic Temperature control
I use the pitmaster IQ but others use BBQ guru or stokers. basically they are computerized fans that control airflow to help contol heat. Some people feel that this is "cheating" but it allows me to do long cooks without babysitting the cooker as i simply don't have the time for that. If i have a day to fire up the WSM, i try to take full advantage of the opportunity, but im probably watching the kids, hosting guests or taking care of things around the house.
Ron Fisher
TVWBB Member
That was my first start at midnight bbq (which I'll thank all you crazies for
) so I didn't feel much like babysitting at 1am even if Isle of Man racing was on!Mine is starting to gunk up nicely after that Butt cook.