New Kingsford Sucks!


 
Originally posted by Willie H: ... This leaves the burn longer part of the equation. Again, echoing others, that is not Kingsford lying. It is Kingsford "marketing"
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. I think Kingsford's own response to this very question says it all. Rather than say, yes the briquettes do indeed burn longer, they say "Please take note they are ready to cook on sooner..." -so if you can start grilling fifteen minutes sooner, but the charcoal burns out ten minutes faster, you still "gained" 5 minutes of "usable" burn time right?
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Willie,

You gave a great analysis of the situation. Your part about "gaining" 5 minutes makes perfect sense for grilling and will probably make the new product very popular for that purpose.

Kingsford's problem right now is that the only people that are paying attention are BBQ fanatics, and we need "low & slow" from our charcoal, not "lights faster, burns hotter." Come grilling season Kingsford will hit their target market and can forget about our whining.

Jim
 
Originally posted by JRPfeff:... we need "low & slow" from our charcoal, not "lights faster, burns hotter."
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I'm afraid we are a small, lonely voice crying in the wilderness
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. There just are not that many folks out there that take joy in cooking something that takes the greater part of a 24 hour day. If Kingsford has developed and/or is marketing their product as something that lights faster and burns hotter, they're probably addressing their primary market. My hope is that its all probably hype and we won't notice a discernable difference other than a little more costs.

Paul
 
I have read a few posts in the past that some people reuse their left over charcoal for the next time they cook. I am one of those people and adding used and new can really stretch my charcoal a long way. I am curious if all the new stuff will burn completly or will there be some left over? It maybe there idea just to have us buy more, it really looks like the same stuff only less with the groves. The burns hotter and longer is there same old saying.
 
Here's the reply I got from Kingsford asking if they could provide the list of ingredients for the new formula. Their response:
Dear Mr. Allingham,

Thank you for contacting us about Kingsford Regular Charcoal Sure Fire Grooves. We always appreciate hearing from our consumers.

We apologize, but the actual ingredients of this product is proprietary.

Again, thank you for contacting us.

Sincerely,
Brandon Goodman
Consumer Response Representative
Consumer Services
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I replied, saying that they have provided such info in the past (included a copy of previous correspondence on the subject) and suggested that it wasn't asking too much to know the ingredients of a product I'm grilling over. Not asking for percentages of ingredients, just a list of ingredients.

No response to date. I will post an update if I get one.

Regards,
Chris
 
Just finished reading the press release. This stuck out:
" 13 percent increase in cooking time at a temperature over 380 degrees Fahrenheit -- new briquets offer a longer burn time"

Still won't say it burns longer, only longer at a temp above 380 F. Great for grilling, not for cue. This makes perfect sense from those pics Chris took. As it burns if it can maintain shape (ie. grooves) it will continually have more surface area than the old stuff, thus hotter and longer at high temp (380 F+). But this still means the total energy will be used faster (burn out quicker).

I want to try some on my kettle first. Might have to close off the vents more than before in the smoker due to extra surface area. But I'm concerned from what others have experienced. I still doubt they changed the ingredients and it's probably just physical. Maybe some extra binders to keep it from easily breaking with those grooves. I think it's just selling less product for same price, but it's probably win-win for Kingsford and their target audience of grillers. As Paul and Jim said, we are a small voice.
 
Dan,

I also reuse charcoal. I'm mostly concerned with the grooves- will a piece break into skinny shards that easily fall through the grate? I don't like digging through ash.

I just thought of something regarding problems people had with temp control. Maybe it's more than just the extra surface area on the briquet themselves. Maybe those grooves help "space" it when it's piled up allowing more air to get to the middle of the pile- boosting the already increased surface area with better airflow. This wouldn't effect grilling, where you spread the coals- but would be a double whammy for us. Can anyone that's used it comment if the middle of the pile seems to burn/glow more than before?
 
Living in the Cincinnati area, I've found the HD in Western Hills with a large stock of the 2/20lb bags of the old stuff. Still under $8.00. Got my 4 (now a total of 16 20lb bags).

On a more ominous note, one has to think...If this takes sales from Duraflame and other Kingsford competitors, will they follow?

The Large percent of Kingsford business comes from grillers looking to burn burgers and dogs. Business almost demands that competitors follow suit to retain market share.
 
I just finished an overnighter with two pork butts and thought I'd give you guys the play by play for some emperical data. Note that I'm a new user of the WSM and have never done butts before last night.

With that said it went like this.

2/2/06
2 Pork butts trimmed to 5.5 lbs and 8 lbs. Charcoal grate filled to the brim with New Kingsford used Minion method with 20 coals in the chimney. Placed on top of unlit coals, spread out, along with apple and cherry chunks. Top vent open 100% for duration of cook. Weber water pan filled with warm water.

70 degrees
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Calm

Lit coals at 9pm
9:50 Put meat on 200 degrees 100 100 100
10:15 220 degrees 25 25 25
11:00 220 degrees 25 25 25
11:30 230 degrees 10 10 10
12:00 220 degrees 10 10 10
12:40 210 degrees 10 10 10
1:15 230 degrees 10 10 10
1:30 240 degrees 10 0 0
4:15 215 degrees 10 0 0
5:00 210 degrees 10 0 0 Added water
9:30 200 degrees 25 25 25
10:50 225 degrees 25 25 25
12:00 225 degrees 25 25 25 Pulled small butt at 190 degrees. Large butt at 179.
12:20 225 degrees Pulled off large butt at 190

Its now 3:20 pm and I've got two racks of spares on. I added a gallon of water to pan and apple and cherry chunks and stirred coals. The WSM is registering 200 degrees at 25 25 25 but I anticipate needing to add more fuel in a little while as it appeared to be fairly well spent but we're talking 18.5 hours to this point.

I don't know if this helps you guys but that was my experience with the new stuff. BTW the butts turned out great (if I do say so myself). My friends will be the test on Sunday.

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That's pretty good really. But, you know what?

I've decided to convert no matter what. Charcoal will become a sidestep every now and then.

Have bbq'd twice on the kettle with lump (royal oak) this week....and man is it ever fabulous. I bought some wicked good lump that'll be used tomorrow night for two butts and a whole brisket.

Seeing the flavor difference between lump and charcoal is going to keep me using much more lump in the future. It is a little more expensive, but what's an extra buck or two for exceptional quality.
 
For using my Performer with the BBQ Baffle, I've found my favorite briquette to be Royal Oak Chef's Select. This is a pure hardwood and starch binder briquette.

They are made in the larger size like the Sam's Club briquettes.

I'm guessing that the Duraflame Hardwood briquettes are made by Royal Oak, also.

I found that they burned very consistently, had quite low ash (not as low as lump), and didn't have any of that stink that Kingsford does when it lights (you know - smells like a coal fire - from the 'mineral carbon', a.k.a. coal they use).

Only problem is that they are almost impossible to find. I had to call the Royal Oak sales people in Chicago to get a list of a few places nearby that sell the stuff.

Chris
 
Chris could you please post some of the places that they gave you, I'm in the Chicago area and may want to try some. Thanks
 
Chris B,
Glad to see another Royal Oak fan. I've never seen the stuff you mentioned, but enjoy their lump and regular briquets. I once bought some "all natural hardwood briquets" at Big Lots that worked well. They were larger than normal briquets. Perhaps they were made by Royal Oak too. Maybe Royal Oak will gain some market and become more widely available because of forums like this. My Walmart carries some of their stuff now and again (besides the Sam's Choice brand). Although it sounds like the new Kingsford is working out fine for some. Still it's nice to have choices, plus I like Royal Oak better anyway. Always smelled better to me, and seems like less ash.
 
I'm leaning towards this whole thing being a marketing gimmick. Cutting the grooves in the briqs enables them to create more briqs from a given weight of raw material. Sorta like when some soft drink manufacturers switched from a 12 oz can to an 11.5 oz can a few years back. I doubt the actual charcola formula has changed any, I'd love to see someone send samples to a lab for testing, hell I'd even kick in a few dollars for the cost. I can see the grooves causing the charcoal to light faster, but I'd be shocked if it didn't actually decrease the total burn time.
 
Glenn, thanks for the info. Steve P. is right, we need a scientifically controlled comparison. This whole thing is bumming me out because charcoal is simply not available here in the winter and when spring finally gets here the box stores will only have the new stuff. Additionally, lump is not an option. I've only seen it in one store in Anchorage (Ace Hardware) and they only had four bags -- I bought them all! I've only got three 24# bags of the old stuff left. Maybe by this time next year this will have blown over and we will have been needlessly concerned.

Griff
 
The Wal-Mart in Harrisonburg, VA had one skid of 20 lb bags of old stuff. My neighbor and I bought 15 bags, which should get us through the summer, at least until someone comes up with a solution to the problem.
Mike
 
Originally posted by Steve Petrone:
Where is the Charcoal Whiz when you need him. A controlled test(s) is the only answer.
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I wrote the Naked Whiz, asking if he knew of anyone who had done a side-by-side comparison of Old vs New Kingsford.
He's not aware of anyone who has done so, nor is he willing to do a comparison himself, being a BGE/Lump kinda guy.

--
Charles

You might be a redneck if...
You’ve ever stood in a corner so long that the Dunce Cap has become infused with your skin.
 
Not to be negative but, I believe the King has tarnished his crown. King has driven loyal customers to consider it's competition. Some of us will stay with the tried and true's new blend. Some of us will seak better value-perhaps Royal Oak Charcoal. Some of us will seek better percieved quality-perhaps lump.
We are a small niche in the market. This would make a great case study.
When my supply is gone, I will try RO and lump. I may use both or fall back to the King. We may be the winner.
 
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