New Kingsford Sucks!


 
Thanks, Chris for your well-planned out response!
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I await your data posting.

You know, guys 'n gals, Chris is right. We WSM'ers pride ourselves in being inquisitive and experimental lot and this quality should extend to assimilating newer products such as the new Kingsford.

Mark
 
Hi all-

I have been reading all the great info on the "new" Kingsford and had to try cooking on some myself. I cooked yesterday and I did find it to burn quickly. I had to manage my fire more than usual. Temperature control was erattic. I cooked on my Weber kettle last night. I doubt I will try this fuel in my WSM. I still produced satisfactory results, but I was busyer than normal managing the kettle. I will continue to use hardwood coals.
 
Originally posted by Chris P.:
I cooked on my Weber kettle last night. I doubt I will try this fuel in my WSM.
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Sorry, I'm a little confused (not unusual for me!).

Are you comparing the use of new Kingsford to old Kingsford in the kettle, or new Kingsford to hardwood coals in the kettle?

In the past, have you used the old Kingsford in the WSM, and if so, what was your experience with it?

Regards,
Chris
 
Chris-

I was comparing the new Kingsford to the old Kingsford and hardwood in my Kettle. It's been over 4 years since I have used any Kingsford product in my Kettle or WSM. I don't remeber Kingsford being so task intensive of a fuel. I did switch to hardwood because it burns more evenly and cleaner. For me, hardwood is my favorite option, but awesome results are produced and will continue to be produced on Kingsford products.
 
I have now used the new product and this what I have found. I start with less coals and have reduced the lower vent settings. It maintains temp but cooking times have are reduced.
If you factor in less weight in each bag, the need for more coals for the same cooking times Kingsford does become more expensive to use.

Now compare this to DuraFlame Briquets, I find I'm using less fuel (even less of old Kingsford) with the same kind of pit temps and cooking times as the old kingsford.

If you are having weather issues (mainly wind)I find the New Kingsford performance is reduced even more.

I'm less inclined to use New Kingsford based on what I'm experiencing, not that it won't work if it is all that I can get at the time.
Jim
 
Originally posted by Jim Minion: DuraFlame Briquets,...
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Jim

Think you could use your influence to get them to distribute their briqs more widely, i.e. they told me "we don't distribute in Florida". I would love to try the briqs.

Paul
 
The Duraflame locator link lists Sam's Club as a distributor, but I know the only charcoal they have at their Champaign, IL location is Kingsford two-packs. They might have other Duraflame products, but not the charcoal.

I'll have to check our local Meijer, which is also listed, but I suspect if they do have it, its only the small bags.
 
Originally posted by Robert Brunner:
The Duraflame locator link lists Sam's Club as a distributor, but I know the only charcoal they have at their Champaign, IL location is Kingsford two-packs. They might have other Duraflame products, but not the charcoal.
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Same in Dayton, OH.

I bought some 10# bags of duraflame on clearance at Kroger. I saw they had 2 bags left yesterday but I didn't grab them since they didn't have clearance sticker on them.

I haven't been checking around other places for duraflame since I know I can buy royal oak lump at gordons. I guess I am going to have to keep an eye out. I do like the uniformity of charcoal over lump especially on over nighters/long cooks.
 
Charles

I had the same question and I believe the answer is the listed stores in Florida do carry some Duraflame products, i.e. starter logs, fire logs, etc., They just don't carry the charcoal. The e-mail from them did state they didn't distribute the charcoal in Fla. I wasn't clear in my previous posts.

Paul
 
I am now cooking an 8.8 lb. butt in my WSM. I am only 1 hour into the cook but I am monitoring. I did notice a couple thing right away. 1) Because the coals are smaller it take more of them to fill the ring. 2) I lit about 20 coals to start my minion method burn, they lit incredibly fast compared to the old stuff. I think that is a plus. 3) My cooker got up to temp in about 15 minutes! For me that is record time; however, it is 78 degrees outside with hardly any breeze. The cooker is now rock steady at 225 degrees. I started the cook at 10:15 and it is now about 11:15. I am using my brinkman water pan with water in it. I will keep the updates coming and post pics as well.
 
Originally posted by Tony Hunter:
Because the coals are smaller it take more of them to fill the ring.
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I asked about this and was told that the briquettes are supposed to have the exact same size and shape as before, with the exception of the grooves.

I asked because I noticed in the sample I bought that the new product seemed to have the same dimensions except that the new product seemed a little thicker than the old one.

They told me that the old and new product have equivalent volume and therefore the same number of briquettes in a bag, only they weigh less because of the grooves (and I suspect because of the use of more wood char).

There is some variation in the pressing process that results in slight differences in thickness, and they showed me samples of the old product that were much thinner than the new one. They said that the press wheels should produce the exact same size and shape briquette, old or new, when everything is working perfectly.

So there will be some variations, but they existed with the old and will continue with the new.

Update: I just went out to the garage and filled a Weber chimney full with the old and new product, just eye-balling what I thought was full, then I counted the briquettes.

There were 95 of the old briquettes, 91 of the new ones.

Tony, maybe it seemed like you used more because the bag weighs less to begin with and weighs less than you're used to after filling the charcoal chamber with an equal volume of new K.

Regards,
Chris
 
Another thought about the new K is that hopefully we may find, as we adapt, that the faster lighting will result in getting into cooking range quicker which should result in a shorter cook time than we were used to. If that occurs, it may well compensate for the fuel being consummed faster and the need to add additional briqs. If its lighting faster, we'll also need to readdress the vent adjustment to maintain correct temps.

Paul
 
Paul,

One of the guys on the FLBBQ Assn circuit gets Duraflame directly from the company gratis...

He tells me that all Albertsons in FL, while they are not required to stock it, will order it for you if you ask a Manager. I haven't tried this out yet, but it's worth a try.
 
Thanks Tom

There are a couple of Albertson's in Pensacola, and I'm going to give it a try.

I'm continuing to be intriged by the Stump's cookers. I was a spector at a comp in this area and a team from Niceville, Fl (don't recall the name) had one that had been specially made for them. Looked mighty fine !

Since I only cook smaller quantities, WSM is perfect for me, but I do love to look
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- had been tempted by a Backwoods.

Paul

PS well, that only took one phone call. They say it has been discontinued by their distributor and they can't order it.
 
Hello Paul - I grew up in Gulf Breeze - now in Birmingham.

Let me start by saying that I love my WSM - I just wanted more room. I have had my Stumps for about a month now and could not be happier. It holds temp like a champ, is versatile, and has a ton of room. I would highly recommend it if you are looking for a larger cooker. If you have not talked to Joby already, give him a call.
 
Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
"There is a ton of science to what they do, and I will do my best to explain it when I do my write-up. The bottom line is they firmly believe they have a new product that in fact lights faster and provides more usable cooking time at your desired cooking temperature, and that they have the data to back up this claim ..."

And in a later post:

"If I can make a simple process adjustment and get the same result with the new product ..."
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Chris,

I believe what you and the Kingsford scientists say is the absolute truth. But I am not in a Pleasanton R&D lab or running a popular barbecue website.

There is one and only one reason that I will ever light a chimney full of charcoal. To cook something. I'll leave the science experiments and process adjustments to you guys.

When I grill or barbecue, I expect to have the same results I had last week and last year. I will also use many of the same techniques I saw my father use in the 1960's & 70's. This aspect may be a bigger deal than anyone has considered. Much of outdoor cooking is about tradition and family memories. Many of the fondest memories of my youth have to do with watching my father as he grilled every weekend.

The Kingsford change sounds more and more like their marketing department became obsessed with market research and their R&D folks came up with a product to match the results. The problem is that the people they asked really didn't know what they wanted or the consequences of the changes. It went like this:

Marketing Associate: How could we make Kingsford Charcoal better?

Guy outside of ballpark grilling burgers: If you made it light faster and burn hotter & longer it would be awesome.

R&D Folks: We can do that!

Feedback from grillers is starting to emerge and some is not favorable. Cooking times and parameters need adjustment to properly grill meat, especially with indirect cooking. I'll try grilling with Kingsford 2.0, but with no more loyalty than that bag of Cowboy Lump I bought for the rebate.

Jim
 
I believe that this issue is exaggerated, I like the new Kinsford very much. I just finished a 13 hour smoke and i'm still holding 250-275....i may only have another 2 hours left of fuel though. When lighting a chimmey full of Kingsford I did notice that it started much quicker (and in turn I dumped them on the unlit charcol sooner.....using MM) and my cooker temps were higher than normal. I also used the fuel sooner than the old Kingsford but I believe that with some minor adjustments in my cooking technique, I can achieve similar or superior results. I have just made what may be the best pulled pork to date (from my own 2 hands). Kingsford is the best charcol around here without needing to special order something else. I think that if we pull our heads together and stop complaining (I don't think Kingsford will be going back any time soon, if ever), we'll get a good cook from it. Please take what I say with a grain of salt, i've only been smoking for about 1.5 years. Oh, i've pretty much been a gas man when it comes to steaks and other high heat direct cooking foods but this new Kingsford has me thinking about giving it a good honest try (gets ready almost as fast as the gasser and it gets hotter).

Tony G.
 
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