New Kingsford Sucks!


 
Hi! I posted awhile back, but didn't notice if anybody was interested in a follow up...

I smoked three racks of ribs about two weeks ago using the Royal Oak Briquettes. With my experience, everything turned out fine, with the exception of the coals not lasting nearly as long as the kingsfords. I used one chimney full of lit ones, one chimney full of empty coals, and let them all ash over a little bit before assembling and throwing the ribs on.

In conclusion, I have mixed feelings. RO will have to do because...well, a lot of things i've been reading looks like the new formula isn't all that great. I just wished the coals from RO would last longer...I'm a little scared about doing the overnight cooks!
 
Mike, I would try using less lit and the Minion Method. Let them unlits catch gradually bringing it up to temp. I also use less water(warm or hot) in my Brinkmann. This allows the temp of the WSM to get up where you want it without wasting a lot of your heat away
 
Chris, you rock.

I bet you had a blast. Should have made them sit trhough a 20 hour cook though, not just 2 hours. What I think will be the funniest result of this is that the guys who are now cooking in the backyard with the WSM for testiing will soon be our new online friends. Welcome Kingsford scientists. We hope you enjoy the site.
 
I asked about what people refer to as the "ammonia smell", and the R&D guys said there's nothing in Kingsford that produces ammonia upon burning.

They did say that at the beginning of lighting, the fire is giving off lots of different things, including NOX (nitrous oxide), SOX (sulfur oxide), CO, CO2, and other volatives. Once the fire intensifies, some of these things are consumed by the heat of the fire, which explains why the smell is greatly reduced once the fire gets good and hot.

But apparently, ammonia is not part of the mix.

Regards,
Chris
 
Chris:

Have you been reading too much Dr. Seuss lately?

NOX & SOX.... knowwhutImean?
icon_razz.gif


Mark
wsmsmile8gm.gif
 
I have to admit, I haven't read all the posts in this thread. But the new Kingsford (and the advent of the Q' season) brought me back to TVWB.

I am not a fan of the new kingsford. I cook a lot of tri tip (see avatar) and usually follow TVWB recipe instructions. Well, I could almost always get two (350 degree) cooks out of a half filled ring of the old stuff. Now, even when I close all the vents in the WSM all of the briquettes still burn to ash. I feel kinda cheated, especially given the fact that the new kingsford is more expensive. However, I'm sure that it is great for the vast majority out there that 1) Don't do low and slow, and 2) don't use charcoal enough to care about re-using it.

As the cliche goes, just my .02
 
Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
I asked about what people refer to as the "ammonia smell", and the R&D guys said there's nothing in Kingsford that produces ammonia upon burning.

Regards,
Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up. It makes sence that as the fire dies down the heat cant burn off the gasses as efficiently as a roaring hot grill. I wonder what changed in the formula from Kingsford Classic to make those gasses so in excess that we can smell them so much more.
 
Originally posted by Chris K:
I wonder what changed in the formula from Kingsford Classic to make those gasses so in excess that we can smell them so much more.
Click to expand...
Although they would not divulge the new product ingredient list, they did say that wood char is the most abundant ingredient. If I read between the lines correctly, it seemed like the use of more wood char was the major change in the formula.

They indicated that the formula change has resulted in a higher manufacturing cost, not a lower cost.

Regards,
Chris
 
Each person has to make that decision for themselves. If you have been a satisfied Kingsford user up to this point, I would at least give the new product a try and see what your personal experience is with it. After all, if you've been keeping up with the various comments about the product here on the BB, you've noticed that some people say it sucks and some people say they don't notice a difference at all. Also, remember that the more people that at least give the new product a try and report their results pro or con, the more data points we'll have to consider as a group.

Here's how I am going to approach the situation for myself. (I'm not suggesting that anyone else should do it this way.)

First, I'm going to try some burn tests without meat using old and new Kingsford to see if I can actually measure a performance difference using the data logging thermometer I have. I am also going to weigh both products before and after to see if the amount of ash produced has changed.

Second, I will try cooking two pork butts overnight with the new Kingsford using my normal Minion Method routine. If it seems that the new product works the same as the old, I will stop right there and continue to use the new product.

If it does not seem to last as long as the old product, I will try varying my Minion Method technique to see if I can solve the problem. For example, I will start with 10 hot coals instead of 20, and I will damp down the bottom vents more and earlier in the process.

If I can make a simple process adjustment and get the same result with the new product, then I will stick with the new product. If not, I'll have to start investigating other briquettes.

Regards,
Chris
 
Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
Here's how I am going to approach the situation for myself. (I'm not suggesting that anyone else should do it this way.)
Click to expand...
Seems like a reasonable course of action to me. I would go a bit further to say that I would also look at what it costs to "adapt" to the new Kingsford. After all, we used the old product not only for its predictable burn characteristics, but also for its ubiquitous availability and its attractive price point at major market outlets. If I can't easily make the "new" Kingsford do what I want it to do, and can duplicate the performance of "old" Kingsford at a better price with another product, I may very well be inclined to do so. Kingsford may have listened to marketing research in modifying their product, but it doesn't necessarily mean I have to cut my nose off to spite my face by remaining loyal to the brand. I mean, after all, I need the product to do what I need it to do, right?
 
It took me a few cooks to trust going to bed while my bullet puffed away all night useing the old Kingsford, but I did get to that point. Never had a problem. I am going to try the new KF this weekend and will report back my experience. I tried R/O and it burned faster than a firecracker fuse.
 
Chris,

Did they show any concerns over health safety issues and the minion method? It sure sounds questionable with those volitives being released. I use the mm, but have concerns myself.
 
Originally posted by Mike B.:
Chris,

Did they show any concerns over health safety issues and the minion method? It sure sounds questionable with those volitives being released. I use the mm, but have concerns myself.
Click to expand...

Mike,

I could be way off base here but based on what I have seen in my usage, all the coals seem to ash over fairly quickly, but the rate of burn is controlled by air flow into the smoker giving you the ability to stretch out the cook. So, I think the initial volitives are burn off within the first hour of the cook. You guys and gals help me out here because at this point I am speculating to some degree.
 
Originally posted by Doug D:
Kingsford may have listened to marketing research in modifying their product, but it doesn't necessarily mean I have to cut my nose off to spite my face by remaining loyal to the brand. I mean, after all, I need the product to do what I need it to do, right?
Click to expand...
I would agree with that statement. Ultimately, your continued use of the product will depend on it continuing to meet whatever criteria you deem most important in a fuel.

I think the key for me is "simple process adjustments". In talking with the R&D guys, they mentioned that several of their professional Kingsford users (e.g. The Weber Grill restaurants in Illinois) expressed the same concerns mentioned here on the BB about the new product not lasting as long. They travelled to Chicago to see first-hand what was going on and found that with minor process changes (like letting a chimney full of unlit briquettes sit on the gas-fired lighter for a shorter period of time than with the old product) the chefs were able to achieve the results they were looking for.

So that's the kind of "simple process adjustment" I was referring to. Going from 20 to 10 briquettes or using a slightly different damper setting would be a minor change in my book. Having to add a fresh chimney of fuel 8 hours into a cooking session would not.
icon_smile.gif


Regards,
Chris
 
Originally posted by Mike B.:
Chris,

Did they show any concerns over health safety issues and the minion method? It sure sounds questionable with those volitives being released. I use the mm, but have concerns myself.
Click to expand...
They did not. They were aware of others besides us that use a continuous burn process. For example, there's a restaurant in Chicago (can't remember the name, but I do remember that you can grill your own steak, if you want) that arranges a huge row of briquettes using multiple 20lb bags of fuel inside a low brick enclosure. They light some fuel and place it in two rows perpendicular to the length of the pile. Those two lines of lit coals burn towards the center of the pile and eventually meet, as well as burning the opposite direction toward the end of the pile as the evening proceeds. They were not surprised when I mentioned other cookers like the Jedmaster that use a racetrack configuration to burn charcoal continuously.

They mentioned that the scientific studies about grilling health concerns have been related to cooking meat at high temperature, not charcoal products themselves.

Regards,
Chris
 
Well, add me to the group that's going to give it a full, complete try including some variations from my previous way of using it - along the lines Chris mentioned. I just don't see a lot of options out there for me. RO lump is really not very available around here and I'm just not a "lump guy". I tried the RO briqs and was not greatly impressed. I don't care to get into the on-line ordering thing; cost, freight, delivery time, etc.

I would liked to have tried the Duraflame but was told by them they don't distrbute in Fla ... ?

Even though I've still got a fair supply of the old K, I think I'll buy some new just to see what the hoopala is all about.

Paul
 
Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
Each person has to make that decision for themselves...
Click to expand...

I agree with that. After following this thread for a while, I had been a bit fearful about using the new Kingsford, but since I was in a pinch and that's all that I could find I had to use it for a smoke last weekend.

The only thing I really noticed about the new formula was how fast the lit up in the chimney, and how quickly the unlit charcoal ashed over while using the standard method. It seems like I used to wait quite a while, but this time I left for a few minutes and when I came back everything was good to go. Granted this was only a 7 hour smoke, but the temps remained stable the whole time, and everything turned out ok.
 
Consider this an opportunity for fame and Google recognition.

If you can create the definitive way to cook with the new Kingsford, the technique can be named in your honor. Say goodbye to Mr. Minion's obsolete method.
wsmsmile8gm.gif


jrp
 
Originally posted by JRPfeff:
Consider this an opportunity for fame and Google recognition.

If you can create the definitive way to cook with the new Kingsford, the technique can be named in your honor. Say goodbye to Mr. Minion's obsolete method.
wsmsmile8gm.gif


jrp
Click to expand...
icon_eek.gif
heresy!!

Minion Method: put some lit together with unlit fuel in a controlled airflow system ... it's still the Minion Method ... minor tweaks in consideration of characteristics for a particular fuel source would hardly warrant stealing credit JRPfeff ... I think the new process would have to be significantly different to deserve a name change and so far it sounds like vent adjustments/start with less lit fuel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top