Need some help refurbishing a Summit S-650


 
J

Joe C LI NY

New member
I just picked up this Weber Summit S-650 on FB marketplace for $150.

It’s in decent shape but could use a little bit of work. I don’t mind working on it because I love tinkering on stuff and know this will last for many more years with a small investment and some work.


One of the burners is finnicky and one does not lite at all. After some investigating itlooks like those two igniters are rusted out, so that seems like a straightforward fix.

It’s missing a knob. That control valve seems seized which is probably because it’s been exposed to the elements. That should loosen right up with some lube and hopefully work as the others do.

The lowest body label is a bit rusted out. I’m thinking of cutting out most of it and replacing with some thick aluminum.

I’m planning on replacing the flavor bars and possibly the grates.

Where would be my best source for parts? Should I go with OEM or aftermarket?

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First off look at the front of the fire box. Where the burners poke through. Odds are you will find it rusted out. That and the bottom of the cabinet. YOu can make a new wooden floor for that but the firebox renders the thing pretty unusable
 
Those are usually what we call on this forum "A Rabbit Hole". But if you heed Larry's advice, you might have a real score there.
 
Joe,
Welcome to TVWBB! All of us here want to help and not discourage you. However, I am afraid these are my least favorite Weber grills. I have lost money on going down this rabbit hole (twice) myself, so my comments are naturally based on the bad taste that has left me.

This is what the insides of these Summits often look like:

Summit Rusty Bottom.jpg

I am hoping yours is better. As Larry said, the firebox is definitely the big issue. You may not be able to totally diagnose without doing some disassembly. If your firebox front looks anything like this, I suggest you seriously consider doing a "cut your loss and run" while you can.:(

Summit Rusted Firebox front.jpg

Summit Rusted Firebox front 2.jpg

Maybe you will be more fortunate and your firebox front isn't rusted out. If so, and you are willing to invest in the parts and like having a monster-size grill, it certainly can be restored. When these things work, I think they work very well. Too heavy and complicated in my opinion, but most annoying is the corners Weber cut on a $2K grill. For that kind of money, I see little excuse for using plain steel for the cabinetry and frame or worse yet making the firebox front with porcelain coated steel that is doomed to crack and start rusting out.

This is what I did with two old Summit monsters (and a couple other clunkers) that I gave up on:
Summit Junk.jpg

If you look your grill over thoroughly and find enough of these problems to give you pause, then like many here would suggest, I would consider the option of reselling and looking instead for a classic Genesis that will way outlast these things. If you cook for a lot of people, look for two! Knowing what I do now, I would way rather have two classic Genesis (x000/Silver/Gold/Platinum) grills vs. one of these Summits.

But, if you decide to restore, we will all do our best to help you along the way!
 
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Joe C LI NY said:
One of the burners is finnicky and one does not lite at all. After some investigating it looks like those two igniters are rusted out, so that seems like a straightforward fix.
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If I'm not mistaken (someone correct me if I'm wrong), when even a single igniter dies on these grills, you replace the entire manifold assembly for around $200+. The igniters are integrated with the manifold and not sold separately.

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I believe you're correct Chris. The ignitor is the "snap jet" a small piezo built into the control and which then lights a high pressure pilot light
 
I worked on a few of these Summits. Chris is correct the ignition is integrated into the manifold. Short of buying new manifold assembly, check the orange ignition wires in the picture from Chris. Check the wires for burnt or frayed insulation. The wires tend to "spring" out instead of laying flat and can contact the surrounding metal causing a short. Liquid wire insulation is sold at the hardware stores or maybe some type of heat shrink product can be used to insulate the wires from the surrounding metal.
On a Summit project I would proceed carefully. Try to get the ignition and burners functioning before you spend $$$. Cleaning the burner tubes and ignition ends usually goes a long way.
 
All very good points and I appreciate the info

how do I go about disassembling the front to check the fire box?

I did see that the igniters are available separately for around $30, can they NOT be replaced separately???

A couple of the igniters are rusted on the end, I’ll try getting back down to metal in hopes of getting a good spark

If I get this all running and decide to get rid of it, which Genesis grills should I look at?
 
Joe C LI NY said:
I did see that the igniters are available separately for around $30, can they NOT be replaced separately???
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Let me rewind. The last time I checked with Weber Support, they did not sell individual replacement igniters, they only sold the entire manifold assembly with new valves and new igniters for about $100. I don't know if that's still the case for buying from Weber.

Now that you mention it, I did a quick search and see that you can buy individual valve/igniter replacements for less than $30. So you appear to be correct, my man, and I've learned something new. But you might call Weber at 800-446-1071, give them the grill's serial number, and see what they can do for you.
 
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Joe C LI NY said:
If I get this all running and decide to get rid of it, which Genesis grills should I look at?
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Depends. The older Genesis models are cheaper to fix up and pretty easy to work on. And at least where I am you can buy a nice fixer upper for $50 or free.

The Exxx generations have east to west burners on the earlier model years and front to back burners on the later years. These newer Genesis models with the enclosed cabinets are prone to rust and rehabbing that rust can be pricey.

I have a couple of the E-310 grills, I like the style and they are the east to west layout. I also prefer that.
 
Joe, if it was me, I would find a good Genesis 1000-5000 or Silver Gold B/C to rehab for a personal keeper. There are a lot of them out there and you should be able to find a suitable candidate for Free to $50.

The main difference between the 1000 and B/C grills is that the 1000 grills have a deeper fire box and two rows of flavorizer bars instead of one. This creates a little more distance between the heat and grates as well as a more even heating through out the grill. Those flavorizer bars also cost more however. Both grills have East/West style burners which is very beneficial if you ever want to run a rotisserie on the grill.
 
New valves AND all igniters for $100 is actually pretty good considering I was about to buy 3 igniters for $30 each!

I’m going to check out the front of my fire box and see how rusted it is. Fixing the frames lower panel is easy. If I can get new valves/igniters for around $100 and knobs for around $60, I’m ok with that. I would be at only just over $300 for a grill that works well and will last me a few years. The grates are are perfect, flavor bars are in pretty good shape as well.

But, I can’t help myself and will keep an eye on the Genesis grills. Unfortunately dealing with most (idiots) on marketplace/craigslist most will not know exactly which model they have and will not go through the effort of looking at the sticker. What should I look for in pics/ads to find one of these go-to Genesis grills?
 
One thing I will tell you. If that grill is solid on the fire box (or if you elect to buy a new one) they cook beautifully. One thing I can attest to with my old 1st gen Summit 450. It is an outstanding cooking machine. It's sad Weber skimped on material quality
 
I like ones like these... My first choice is open cart, controls on the right and no batteries, but anything Weber is fine by me.


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I would cross off #3, but all the others have merit depending on the price. The redhead would probably be my first choice. If you felt you had to have a larger grill, at least the newer 300 series one shown is a "sidewinder." I think of these as the very last of the Weber design since it still has E-W burners and a crossover connector between them. The last maroon one could look really sharp if it had one of those Weber black handles with the lights built in, paint the end pieces black (or replace with black) and replace the knobs/igniter switch with black ones. I love the hood color.
 
My summit 670 has had the following replaced under warranty. Burners, Manifold, rotisserie jet, starter and thermocoupler and the firebox had a hole burned into it due to the manifold had a leak and was putting fire right next to the burner that burned a hole in the firebox. I have some rust on the center of the grill center cabinet and the lid is smoked speckled and i tired of cleaning it. But still cooks great.
 
Weber support may replace the cook box. They did for my summit 620 which had just a small amount of rust.

The Summits are fantastic grills. Yes the cookbox and manifold can give you issues, but give Weber a call and see if they can help you out. Good luck!
 
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