Minion method struggles


 
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DavidD

TVWBB Super Fan
has there been new guidance when using the minion method to increase the number of briquets with the newer version of kingsford (post 2006)?

the reason I ask, i've tried twice with poor results when following the method for hot climates, filling the bowl and heating 20 briquets, dumping them on top, etc. I have found the 20 hot briquets very inqadequate. I realize next time i'll just incr the number to about 30 but wondered why this method has proven problematic to me. I wondered if the orig method was with the orig generation of kingsford and without the ask, lite the others faster. I could not get my temps up for almost 2 hrs, it finally settled in but with stoking from me.
 
I'm reading that you heat 20 briqs and then dump them on top. That might be your whole problem right there. Minion method says to create a hole in the center of the unlit and then dump the lit briqs down in the hole and then compress the unlit around the lit.

Minion makes the heat radiate out from the center as needed. Dumping on top makes the heat radiate down to catch new briqs which it doesn't do very well at all.

Russ
 
Using my kettle I have my vents wide open, top and bottom, then start to close them as the temperature rises. "catching the temperature on the way up" , holding the vent opening at that position until the temperature settles in.
 
I use K Blue with my WSM 22 and use the minion method regularly by dumping 20-30 briquettes on top with no problem. The cooker gets up to temp and holds with no worries.
 
......and I start with everything wide open and then shut the bottom vents gradually down to almost 0% once the temp settles in.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Minion method says to create a hole in the center of the unlit and then dump the lit briqs down in the hole and then compress the unlit around the lit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, no, it doesn't. That's a way of doing it, and some do; I don't, much preferring to spread them on top.

In Florida I use 8-12 to start low/slow, about 22-25 to start what will end up as a high heat cook, my usual, with an empty foiled pan.

What are your vent positions at the beginning Davidd - all open or...? Are you using water or ceramic in the pan? If water, what temp is the water when you add it?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Davidd:
has there been new guidance when using the minion method to increase the number of briquets with the newer version of kingsford (post 2006)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I haven't noticed any "new guidance" regarding an increase in the number of lit briqs, but it stands to reason if using roughly twice as much water in the pan. As to why no "new guidance", besides Chris Allington and a few other posting members, how many folks have both pans to compare? Besides that, how many folks have even USED water in the pan?.... Past the "break in" period, besides myself?
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As for myself, I recommend using a torch and lighting about 3/4 of the top, leaving the very outside of the ring unlit so that the wood chunks won't start smoking immediately from end to end.
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I usually just dump the lit briqs on top and have never had a problem in the temp rising. Sound like all your vents weren't open 100%??
 
I had never used the Minion Method until I picked up a WSM a number of weeks ago. I have done two smokes, one pork butt and one chicken, using this method and was able to control the temps easily. I followed the instructions on this site and found I could take the temps to any level I wanted and then maintain the temp level. For me, I started with all vents at 100% open. Once the temp reached 200 degrees (lid temp), I closed the three bottom vents to around 25%. The temp slowly climbed to ~240 (lid temp). I closed one bottom vent all the way and used the other two to maintain temps. It appears that, if you want to either increase or decrease temps, patience is required. Small adjustments and wait on the WSM to settle in. I have said it before and I will say it again...I continue to be amazed at how one can control the temps on the WSM.

Hope this helps. My desire is that you can get the hang of temp control and really enjoy the WSM. For me, this thing is lots of fun.
 
circling back on my post...

I have the new wsm with large water pan and had it filled 3/4 with tap hot water, vents wide open and not meat for first 30 min. Temp came up to low 200's so i added meat, left vents but temps struggled to come up with exactly 20 briq dumped on top. Cracked top lid and that helped but took a long time. I'll try more briq next time but wondered who else experienced this. Happened twice to me so not a fluke.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Davidd:
circling back on my post...

I have the new wsm with large water pan and had it filled 3/4 with tap hot water, vents wide open and not meat for first 30 min. Temp came up to low 200's so i added meat, left vents but temps struggled to come up with exactly 20 briq dumped on top. Cracked top lid and that helped but took a long time. I'll try more briq next time but wondered who else experienced this. Happened twice to me so not a fluke. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see... I think the water is what's holding your temps back. Try it with no water next time and I bet you won't have a problem! I have never used water before, only a foiled clay saucer in the water pan
 
Adding water is standard for low/slow cooks, unless one uses ceramic. I don't care for the latter - I use water - very hot, unless I am needing lower temps than normal. In Florida and Las Vegas I cannot low/slow without a heat sink. For most of my cooks I use an emoty foiled pan but mst of my cooks are over 325?.

Water should not be the issue. However, do not wait to load the meat in. (I have no idea why people do this.) When you dump on the lit, assemble the cooker and load the meat in immediately. I don't know how much you are accustomed to cooking, but sufficient meat of sufficient mass is a heat sink in itself. Waiting to load it in only drags out the temp rise - or can arrest it for a while.
 
No problem for me (thankfully). 17-20 lit briqs on top of a full (unlit) charcoal ring and I usually reach my desired temp in 1/2 hour. No hole in the center.
 
When running the WSM I use half a chimney of lit charcoal and spread it around evenly. I put the WSM together with all the vents open and and let it get to within 15 degrees of my target then I throw the meat on and begin to alter my vents and/or use my temperature control unit. I used to use water but I have switch to ceramic. I found I could not get the temperature above 230 and struggled to get to 250. I now can get to 275 easy.
 
I will repeat myself: I have no idea why anyone waits to put on the meat after assembling. It makes no sense to me (unless one is firing with the Standard Method - something I never do). Half a chimney of lit is much more lit than one needs for a Minion start in Orlando but, regardless, there is no reason to wait to load the meat with a Minion start - especially if using a temp controller. I don't get it.

Temp control units require neither water nor ceramic. That's one of the key points of having one.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
I will repeat myself: I have no idea why anyone waits to put on the meat after assembling. It makes no sense to me (unless one is firing with the Standard Method - something I never do). Half a chimney of lit is much more lit than one needs for a Minion start in Orlando but, regardless, there is no reason to wait to load the meat with a Minion start - especially if using a temp controller. I don't get it.

Temp control units require neither water nor ceramic. That's one of the key points of having one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin,

IMHO temp control units and fans are a crutch for the folks that do not want to learn the skills necessary to manually control the temp in hot, cold, or rainy weather. I get great pleasure in firing up the smoker and pegging the temp at the level I want hour after hour - no matter the conditions. Although I am new to the WSM and experienced in using a Char-Griller, I can peg the temp at 240, or any temp I want, for as long as I want. I highly recommend that everyone learn how to control temps manually before going to a control unti/fan.

V/R
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I have no idea why anyone waits to put on the meat after assembling </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I do have a reason to let the smoker get to temperature and 'soak' there for just a few minutes if I'm using Kingsford. The key issue being if I'm using Kingsford (blue or comp), the following doesn't seem to be true for RO lump.

All of us don't like that thick black smoke that Kingsford seems to emit when it's firing up. However, I've noticed that if I let all that un-lit charcoal in the ring warm up to cooker temp then I seem to get far less of that thick smoke. So yes, I let the cooker come up to stable temp and soak for a little bit before loading the meat in.

Russ
 
Thick black smoke on a Minion start? Never seen that.

Maybe quit doing the hole/compression thing.
 
In my mind dumping fully lit briqs on cold unlit briqs is the same as starting briqs in the chimney where I get tons of the thick, black smoke (soot?). If that is the case then there's every possibilty of getting the same thing inside the cooker (and on the meat) if I load the meat right away.

If all I have to do is let the cooker settle out a little to prevent this possibility, then it's very worth it in my mind. I'm in no hurry anyway.

Russ
 
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