Larding a brisket ?


 
I'm almost considering *not* cooking brisket over here (UK) anymore, I can't seem to find nicely marbled cuts of meat. I was wondering if anyone ever lards their brisket to artificially introduce fat ? I can either get tender/dry or tough-ish/moist. I've tried pulling the meat off the BBQ at different temps, foiling, BBQ at higher and lower temps ... nada. Do you think this would help keep it moist ?

thanks
morgan
 
I'm surprised you can't find good brisket there. I had no trouble--but that was years ago--near Victoria station.
Anyway, I've never larded brisket but you certainly could. You could use bacon fat, if you wish, but I'd be inclined to choose suet or, absent that, an unsmoked soft pork fat. If you don't have a larding needle already, seek out a hinged one. Easier to use on large roasts should you ever decide to lard one of them.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Minion:
I would recommend trying Fab B or Fab B lite before larding.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto, or at least another injectible, if Fab isn't available or can't be shipped to the UK (though in that case I'd be happy to ship it to you if you wanted to try it).
 
Thanks guys
I can get brisket flats easily enough, the whole brisket is a bit elusive.
I imagine injecting will produce a more homogenous finished product as well.
Fortunately, a brand new butcher is opening down the street from me (bringing the total number of butchers to one!), and knowing the pickiness of the locals (organic types) this butcher will be a good person to get to know very well.
I'll post back eventually .
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd be happy to ship it to you if you wanted to try it). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The offer is much appreciated, thank you, however, I usually put my parents or brother on "mule" duty. Or they bundle it in with a care package, that's how I got my ET-73, and Candy Sue's wood pellets. Maybe I should have 'em send me a brisket
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If I change my mind and decide to take you up on the offer, you'll be the second to know.

morgan
 
I just looked at the ingredients for FAB B
FAB B
Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, vegetable oil (soybean and or corn, cottonseed), sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum

Flavour enhancers + oil + thickener, might try making my own version ... I'll let you know
 
Morgan
The important ingredient is the phosphates. Phosphates are lost during rigor when the steer is processed, Fab B replaces those phosphates reducing shrinkage and retaining moisture.
Jim
 
Morgan, you could try doing the brisket in an aluminum foil pan the way BBQ guru Steven Raichlen likes to do sometimees. It ends up swimming in alot of its own juice, so it's probably partially braising as well as smoking, but I've found that it works if you're stuck with a small, lean flat.

Have you tried smoking a butt upstairs on the top grate so it bastes your brisket? That's a good technique, too.
 
Jim,
I thought it was just an acidity regulator, thanks for the info.

Susan,
I've considered it. If it's a bit dry I can always slice the whole brisket and add some glace de viande and slowly reheat. Keeping the moisture close might be the way.

morgan
 
To follow up Jim's point about phosphates (I am compelled to research everything
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) I found some interesting sites and papers that cover additives to food. I find this very interesting:
Paper from the 9th International Symposium on Yeasts, Sydney, August 1996 there are references on this one
Marinades "Meat" Challenge just an article

on edit, I found these other sites, the first deals with rigor, pH, and tenderness (with refs)
Meat Science 101 links to official standards for grades, picture, carcasses, etc ... very good

Livestock and Seed Program
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If it's a bit dry I can always slice the whole brisket and add some glace de viande and slowly reheat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope that's French for BBQ sauce!
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And I thought smoking was simple. I have to say , I have learned alot from this thread.Thank you all.

About the FAB and FAB-B, Jim, what can you tell us about the flavor and color that the product will give brisket? I would like to try one of them but would like to know what you would recommend. To me it lookes like there is no spice there to change the flavor. A concern would be , will the rubs I like work with the FAB or will I have to change the plan there also.

Thanks ,
Rick
 
Rick
Fab B is darker in color and some the competition folks have gone to Fab B lite because of that fact.
It does inpart a beef flavor that if I were to discribe it, it reminds me that strong beef flavor you get with beef stew.

I have not changed my rub because of the Fab B products, I don't find any problems there at all.
You may find over time that you will adjust rub or sauce but that seems to be an on going thing anyway.
Let us know how it goes, interested in your feedback.
Jim
 
Rick
From the ingredients listed in the FAB-* products it is apparent that flavour enhancers are used :
MSG & disodium inosinate and guanylate are used together frequently, autolyzed yeast extract provides a mix of amino acids, these will bring out and intesify the natural flavours in the meat.
Glutamate receptors have been identified on the tongue, glutamates are quite prevelant in nature, it makes sense (no pun intended) that humans would evolve to be able to distinguish this flavour and others: salt, sweet, bitter, sour.
As Jim mentioned elsewhere, If it give's you an edge ...

morgan
 
WOW....I have an order of FAB LITE on the way . I hope to give it a test run next week end.I found 2 or 3 flats in the freezer that I need to cook. I also may pick up a fresh one just to compare. It will be a great time to give the J.D. pellets that Candy was so nice to send me a try also. I found the 1# bags of the pellets at Wally World and picked one up . If I remember, Candy said she likes a cup full of the J.D. pellets for a brisket cook.


Thanks , I will keep you all posted.


Rick
 
Rick try the mixture as directed the first time but later you can replace the water with fruit juices, like apple or pineapple.
Jim
 
OK, I did a little test on the brisket this week end. I had 2 flats in the freezer about 6 # each. One was a select the other a choice. I picked up a 13 # fresh packer at waly –world, it was a select. All three were cooked on one WSM. I used sand in the WSM water pan with foil over the sand. Next I placed the bottom rack on the water pan. Then I placed another WSM water pan with two layers of foil on top of the bottom rack. On top of all this I put another bottom rack in on top of that second water pan. All of this was to keep so much radiant heat from burning the briskets that are going to cook on the lower area”it worked”. I am down to my last few bags of Hickory Specialties charcoal and this is what I used for this cooking. I did use a layer of cowboy lump near the top because I knew it was going to get cold that night and the lump would give a little more heat than the other charcoal. For the smoke flavor I used 3, 1/3 cup packs of J.D. smoke pellets placed in different locations. I like to use a propane torch to light some coals in the center of the pile.
Prep: brisket 1, was the select flat, all it got was some dry rub an hour before going on the WSM.
Brisket 2 was the select flat, It got a dose of FAB B LITE with water , allowed to sit with that for 12 hours at 36*f. Then the same rub as # 1, one hour before cook time.
Brisket 3 was the fresh, never frozen select packer. It got a dose of FAB B LITE with apple juice and allowed to sit at 36*f for 12 hours. Then it got the same rub as the others one hour before cook time.
The two flats went on the lower cooking area, the packer on the top, all fat side down. Cooked in the 225*range, foiled in the 165* range, and pulled at 195* and let rest.
The shrinkage was about the same on all three. All had a good color. All had a nice smoke ring of about1/4”-3/8”. This was my first time with the fat side down, I like it. This was also my first cook with J.D. pellets. Good color, mild smoky aroma and flavor, I liked that also. I did not think I could get the smoke I wanted out of only 1 cup of pellets. I think next time I will blend the smoke flavor some maybe with oak, apple or some hickory.

Back to the meat of the topic. The two flats had been frozen for a few months and I wanted to see what if any affect FAB would have on them. Brisket one, nice tender and moist, maybe too tender “the way I like it”. Brisket 2, the meat was a little firmer, the injection did not flow out very well and it looked like it had zebra stripes in it. Yes I did my best to inject this stuff evenly. It did have a little more flavor than # 1, much more in the dark part of the stripe. Brisket 3, this was the fresh select packer. This one had no zebra stripes. Flavor was good, it was tender. It would seem that the FAB did flow out better in the fresh brisket. From the looks of it I have enough FAB left to inject one more good size packer. I think next I will try a packer with and one without the FAB and see side by side how it goes.


RICK
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Fortunately, a brand new butcher is opening down the street from me (bringing the total number of butchers to one!), and knowing the pickiness of the locals (organic types) this butcher will be a good person to get to know very well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What more can I say - talk to your butcher. Most brisket here in the UK is boned and rolled so if you want a whole (or part) one arrange it first, that's what butchers are good at. When I was in (West) London we went to a couple of good butchers - one is in Holland Park (Lidgates?? but I think they've started featuring in sunday supplements so expect to pay for the location and the chance to rub shoulders with some celeb or other) the other was in Wimbledon village. I'm amazed - Dulwich would seem like the ideal target location
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I don't know where you work but if it's in the city try visiting Smithfield - it's worth it for the experience alone (Or has it moved to some sterile location?). I'm lucky to be blessed with butchers (I think there are seven in Ludlow, my local town) and I have a couple of farm gate operations within five minutes. www.detton.co.uk is one and they will post stuff - you could always give them a ring. Better still get in quick with the new butcher on the block! Good Luck !
 
James
I work in Holborn and there is a butcher here, but he's really grumpy. Dulwich is the perfect place for a butcher as it doesn't have one, so whoever is opening it will get alot of business. There's also Borough Market but the prices are steep and you have to pre order, might have to splurge, but 20 quid for a brisket (6/kg) seems steep.
I'm sure evryone here will get any butcher news I have. tick tick tick

morgan
 

 

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