For those of you who have cooked high heat briskets in the past, I've got a question. The last time I did a high heat brisket the flat was done but the point could have used a lot more time on the smoker. Is this common? When I usually do these I give them away so I don't really eat them. The other day was the first one I actually cut into and ate.
High temp brisket question
- Thread starter Lee Morris
- Start date
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Yup, quite common; pretty much the rule. You can remove the point when the flat is done and stick it back in the cooker, or you can let it cool and fridge or freeze it for a future meal, cooking it further a that point (chili, fillings or sauces of various types, pulled beef).
Kevin-kevdawg
TVWBB Member
I plan to smoke my first brisket sometime over the weekend. I purchased a packer last night at Wal-Mart after reading about this high heat method and plan on following the advise within this thread. Paul H's question above was the question I had as well. And will this pose any problems if I seperate the flat from the point, to continue the point until done? Should I seperate them and foil individually after about 2.5hrs or should I foil cook until flat is done, seperate, rest flat in cooler, refoil point and cook until point is done? On average, what do you think the difference in time would be between the flat being done and the point.
Thanks,
Kevin
Thanks,
Kevin
Jamieson S
TVWBB Fan
Having a BBQ tomorrow and just grabbed 2 15lb packers. Was planning on firing the WSM up this eve and holding in a cooler till I need to serve them. Looks like i'll be trying my hand at my first high heat briskets now instead
This will solve my dilema of wanting to brew a batch of beer today. Normally this process has an end result of me being drunk, and putting off the brisket cook till tomorrow saves me from having to get the WSM started when all I want to do is lay on the couch
One question though:
If I fill my ring with unlit and add 30 or so lit for a Minion start, how much Kingsford will be left at the end of the cook? Am hoping to put some more things on the WSM when the briskets are done (fattie, wings, ??) just not sure how much juice it will have left in it. I realize I can just add more but guessing I'll be dealing with a bunch of ash.
Thanks-
Jamie
This will solve my dilema of wanting to brew a batch of beer today. Normally this process has an end result of me being drunk, and putting off the brisket cook till tomorrow saves me from having to get the WSM started when all I want to do is lay on the couch
One question though:
If I fill my ring with unlit and add 30 or so lit for a Minion start, how much Kingsford will be left at the end of the cook? Am hoping to put some more things on the WSM when the briskets are done (fattie, wings, ??) just not sure how much juice it will have left in it. I realize I can just add more but guessing I'll be dealing with a bunch of ash.
Thanks-
Jamie
Craig Castille
TVWBB Wizard
I use lump, but I always have most of it left over after a high heat cook.
Craig Castille
TVWBB Wizard
To answer the last question, the only trimming I do prior to cooking a high heat brisket is into the cavity between the point and flat. The fat on the flat gets trimmed when finished.
I would think that retaining most of the fat on the flat would allow for a potentially more moist brisket since it would provide a buffer from the rising heat.
To me, what matters is the final product.
However one gets there is up to them.
I would think that retaining most of the fat on the flat would allow for a potentially more moist brisket since it would provide a buffer from the rising heat.
To me, what matters is the final product.
However one gets there is up to them.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Fat 'drawing internal moisture like a wick'? I disagree.
I'm baffled by your references to 'traditional' Texas brisket, nor do I understand what you think is being pawned off as modern, nor what you mean by the 'subtle flavor', nor, really, what you mean by 'Texas style BBQ'.
There is little in the way of commonality between Q'd briskets in Texas except that they are a) briskets, b) smoked with oak or mesquite depending on where you are in the state, c) fairly smoky, and d) fairly bland. They are not subtly smoked but spicing is little-to-none almost across the board.
Sauces vary in Texas (I've yet to discover commonality there; I'd argue that there is no such thing as a 'Texas-style' to sauce--and that's one of the things I like about eating there: trying different sauces and discovering the occasional really good one as the meat in Texas, to me, often begs for sauce).
Some of the oldest and most famous Q joints in Texas cook at high heat either for the whole cook or part of it (a few cook direct for part to much of the cook, others indirect and high; some wrap, others don't). Others low/slow. There are some differences in the finished product depending on which approach is used and, thus, other than the commonalities noted, differences among the brisket of Texas Q establishments.
Which 'traditional' Texas brisket do you have in mind?
I'm baffled by your references to 'traditional' Texas brisket, nor do I understand what you think is being pawned off as modern, nor what you mean by the 'subtle flavor', nor, really, what you mean by 'Texas style BBQ'.
There is little in the way of commonality between Q'd briskets in Texas except that they are a) briskets, b) smoked with oak or mesquite depending on where you are in the state, c) fairly smoky, and d) fairly bland. They are not subtly smoked but spicing is little-to-none almost across the board.
Sauces vary in Texas (I've yet to discover commonality there; I'd argue that there is no such thing as a 'Texas-style' to sauce--and that's one of the things I like about eating there: trying different sauces and discovering the occasional really good one as the meat in Texas, to me, often begs for sauce).
Some of the oldest and most famous Q joints in Texas cook at high heat either for the whole cook or part of it (a few cook direct for part to much of the cook, others indirect and high; some wrap, others don't). Others low/slow. There are some differences in the finished product depending on which approach is used and, thus, other than the commonalities noted, differences among the brisket of Texas Q establishments.
Which 'traditional' Texas brisket do you have in mind?
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I just spent $300 for apps at one place plus dinner at Zuni (San Francisco) for two of us (include wine but not tip) so $10/lb for brisket is reasonable to me. I find it at $8-12, depending where I am.
Anyway, though I do not share your fondness for the style, you should be able to get closer to what you are seeking by cooking over a combination of oak and hickory coals, direct but high off the coals, and by basting with a simple vinegar and pepper baste. This, along with the large-pit/whole-animal approach, was the method brought by Deep South planters and their slaves, that started in eastern Texas and spread from there when the slaves were freed after the war. (I used to do briskets direct years ago, on occasion, though with a more substantially flavored baste. Not hard, but it takes time.) Give that a shot.
Anyway, though I do not share your fondness for the style, you should be able to get closer to what you are seeking by cooking over a combination of oak and hickory coals, direct but high off the coals, and by basting with a simple vinegar and pepper baste. This, along with the large-pit/whole-animal approach, was the method brought by Deep South planters and their slaves, that started in eastern Texas and spread from there when the slaves were freed after the war. (I used to do briskets direct years ago, on occasion, though with a more substantially flavored baste. Not hard, but it takes time.) Give that a shot.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Though I'd disagree that it was the 'wacko heal nut' that caused the change, beef is certainly leaner than it used to be--commercial feedlot beef, that is. Beef got leaner before fat became synonymous with 'not good for you', first in 1950, again in 1965.
There are ranchers that raise fattier beef of different breeds and Wagyu, of course, is available.
Tom-- Missed your post. Nope, just arrived in Seattle. But I'll be back at some point!
There are ranchers that raise fattier beef of different breeds and Wagyu, of course, is available.
Tom-- Missed your post. Nope, just arrived in Seattle. But I'll be back at some point!
Ryan Kelley
TVWBB Member
Well, I did my first high heat brisket this weekend. Turned out good. Can't say it was any better/worse than any low/slow I've done. Definetly a time saver. Flat was a little dry. Point (burnt ends) was awesome!
I seperated point/flat at 2.5 hours. Lost a good 2+ cups of juice. Foiled the flat and left point unfoiled. Unfoiled the flat when it was almost tender and left on for another 1/2 hour to re-bark.
Question: Any clue what led to the flat being a little dry. After the rest, there was no juice in the foil.
I noticed when I initially foiled, the temps shot up from 160 to 200+ in less than 1 hour. Is this normal? Also, would I have been better off not seperating? Theoretically, all that juice I lost would have stuck around a little longer?
I seperated point/flat at 2.5 hours. Lost a good 2+ cups of juice. Foiled the flat and left point unfoiled. Unfoiled the flat when it was almost tender and left on for another 1/2 hour to re-bark.
Question: Any clue what led to the flat being a little dry. After the rest, there was no juice in the foil.
I noticed when I initially foiled, the temps shot up from 160 to 200+ in less than 1 hour. Is this normal? Also, would I have been better off not seperating? Theoretically, all that juice I lost would have stuck around a little longer?
Kevin and D - just to level set for the discussion. When you are talking about high heat brisket what fuel are you using, hardwood charcoal or briquettes. This often gets missed in discussions.
Personally, if using hardwood charcoal I think there may be a better opportunity to replicate "wood fire flavors" by picking a type made from the wood you want to replicate. Or - burning actual wood to coals for fuel, a laborious task if using the WSM, but it can be done.
Pretty hard to impossible trying to replicate wood coal cooking with Kingsford is my point, even if adding smoke wood or chips to the mix. Not bad, but not the same if you are trying to replicate an all wood cook.
Sorry to get all anal about the fuel, but felt that needed to be understood in the context of the great discussion up thread.
My experience (I use hw cc 99.9%) is that you can maintain higher temps with hardwood charcoal and wood fires (used to do all wood fires in my horizontal).
Personally, if using hardwood charcoal I think there may be a better opportunity to replicate "wood fire flavors" by picking a type made from the wood you want to replicate. Or - burning actual wood to coals for fuel, a laborious task if using the WSM, but it can be done.
Pretty hard to impossible trying to replicate wood coal cooking with Kingsford is my point, even if adding smoke wood or chips to the mix. Not bad, but not the same if you are trying to replicate an all wood cook.
Sorry to get all anal about the fuel, but felt that needed to be understood in the context of the great discussion up thread.
My experience (I use hw cc 99.9%) is that you can maintain higher temps with hardwood charcoal and wood fires (used to do all wood fires in my horizontal).
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Ray- I use whatever I have. Lump is not available at home so when there I have been recently using K again. I dislike it but have not been able to get to Tampa (where I can get the lump craig recommends) nor have I much felt like paying the higher shipping charges of these days. Getting it on the road (which I've done before) hasn't happened again--yet.
I don't have issues hitting the temps I like using K, but I don't care for it.
I don't have issues hitting the temps I like using K, but I don't care for it.
Put my first high temp flat (8 lbs) on about an hour ago. I cracked the lid to get the temps up. Shot up pretty quickly to 370 . . .so I put the lid back on straight. Now, an hour in, it's hovering in the 315 range. Do I need to find a way to get it up higher now, or can I ride this out to the 2.5 hour mark.
jeff davidson
TVWBB Super Fan
I cooked my first one about two weeks ago, it was very good. However, since I started judging kcbs, I've started to compare my bbq to the contest submissions. One thing we subject the brisket to is the "pull test" to see if the brisket is too tough or overdone. My high heat brisket would have failed the pull test miserably, much too tough...but still delicious.
Anyone taken a look at this? Perhaps I didn't leave it on long enough?
Anyone taken a look at this? Perhaps I didn't leave it on long enough?
Craig Castille
TVWBB Wizard
You just didn't judge it right.