Genesis II S-435 vs Summit S-470


 
M

MJLepak

New member
I am in a dilemma. I just moved and left my trusty 7 year NG Summit S-470 at my old house as we moved to a house that has propane. The Summit has provided 7 years of flawless service without any issues coming from someone who grills year round several times per week. I am in the market for a new grill and of course starting out Weber is at the top of my list due to the past experience I have had with their grills.

The new Genesis II S-435 has truly peaked my interest with a huge price savings and more cooking area. Can someone explain to me the any differences between the 2 other than the 7mm vs 9mm grates, smoker box, and Rotisserie? I won't use the smoke box as I truly don't think it helps much and I will bust out the Yoder or Rec Tec if I want to smoke something. I occasionally used the Rotisserie for chicken but can stuff a stand or beer can up the bottom side of the chicken and turn off the middle 2 burners for that. Other than I used the Rotisserie burner occasionally when grilling or to finish a pizza or something I needed some top down heat from.

I went to my local BBQ store today to purchase one or the other but they had a run on grills before Christmas and their store currently looks like they are going out of business with no inventory. They said they would be stocked again by mid January so I have a few weeks and thought I would ask some of the experts on here their opinions. Thanks!
 
Some thoughts from someone who while enjoying some Weber products ceased being a fan boy a few years ago. So I will not sing praises to the Weber gods on the new Chinese line. However I will not fully dismiss them. I just as I spell out later here don't believe they represent good value any more
While I am sure the new Genesis is a nice/decent grill is it worth $1400? (not on your life or mine) Frankly I think it's robbery. Especially when you factor in that it's nowhere near as versatile as that 470 you had. They're putting all their "value?" in things like a "sear" burner. Well one sear burner is not anything to be excited about. All it does is highlight the power shortcoming of the grill. Frankly the previous year version where ALL the burners had a higher power setting was a FAR better setup IMO. And quite frankly "searing" stuff isn't the be all and end all of good grilling.
As for a "smoker box" yes you're right the smoker box did not make the Summit into a "true" smoker but it does work after a fashion for those times you may want that hint of flavor without pulling out an actual smoker. Also that low power burner makes for a nice method of doing a low/slow cook conveniently.
Now add tot he fact the Summit can do actual rotisserie cooking thanks to it's dedicated burner.
IMO the Summit is FAR more worth it's price than the Genesis II. Just on versatility alone
You also asked about the difference between 7mm and 9mm grates. Well if you have a drill set simply pull out a 1/4" and a 3/8" drill bit. Compare them for heft and weight. Now imagine that difference spread over an entire grate AND with slightly better spacing between bars as well.
Now that being said I would honestly be looking into other brands that may afford a better alternative. I.E. There is a line called Sabre. These appear to be some darn good quality product.
The KitchenAid brand is now putting out some really decent quality products as well with all stainless construction and prices well under Weber, Napoleon has some very fine quality products as well. There is also Bull and Blaze all within the pricing parameters you're looking at and many of these choices still made in North America.
Bottom line when Weber was a solid "American" "family owned" they were FAR better products than what we're seeing now and better values as well.
I know some here live and breathe the name but when I buy something I look at "value" first and foremost and honestly I don't see it like that anymore.
 
Since I have not had the opportunity to use either of the grills you are looking at, my comments are mostly theoretical rather than based on direct experience.

I agree that it is a sad thing that Weber has gone the offshore route, no doubt fueled by the bean counters at the private equity gruop:p that owns them now. I am sure George :george: would not be happy. While trying to research my odd old Sunbeam grill, I came upon an article from 1995 that described the dilemma Weber faced. At that time Sunbeam actually hade a major share of the market while Weber’s was in single digits. The article pointed out the pricing challenge Weber’s management faced. It is easy for us super-enthusiasts to care only about the manufacturers making grills with everything we want, using highest quality materials made by American workers with generous pay and all, of course, in an environmentally sensitive manner. Oh, and we want bargain basement prices, too...

I can at least sympathize with Weber as a company as they tried to navigate this difficult scenario. While I agree that the focus has shifted away from simple durability toward more bells and whistles, I still think Weber offers competitive products in the middle market for gas grills. I agree that there are worthy competitors such as the brands Larry mentioned. It would take objective side by side comparisons by people who know and enjoy grills to say whether one is better than another. I don’t think that for many of these better brands the prices are all that different from Weber.

Having waded into that minefield again as an overlong long introduction, to the point: If rotisserie is at all important to you - or if it realistically might be - then I agree with Larry’s assessment. But since you already have a Yoder AND a Rec Tec (Wow!), it sounds like you just want a nice high heat machine to GRILL with. I would think the Genesis II would fill that very nicely in a less bulky and hopefully less rust-prone design. I hear what Larry says about the sear burner and wouldn’t argue. I can only say that I HAVE used that (on a Genesis 330 SE) and personally really liked it. Searing isn’t the end all, I agree. I think the reviews of the Genesis II seem to point to very good overall grilling.

I think the Weber stainless rods are certainly very adequate, but if you are totally into it and have the funds, by all means have rcplanebuyer make you a set of his unsurpassed grates. Or - I can’t resist:o - maybe consider GrillGrates!

My one caveat would be to seriously consider an open cart design and take extra care to prevent rust and treat it promptly when it does appear. Most of all, enjoy grilling!
 
I too faced a similar dilemma recently and, like you, have a high-end dedicated smoker (Mak 2-Star) and was trying to balance the two characteristics. Ended up choosing the S-470 with no regrets to date. The reasons were many, but largely influenced by the Chinese vs. American made issue, IR burner availability and reverse-searing temperature control. As Larry points out, there are several other competitive brands, but even the ones he mentions - Bull, Blaze, Sabre and most Summit-comparable Napoleon models - are made in China. In any event, I agree with him that the 470 represents a better value than a GII if for no other reason than inclusion of the IR burner which - as I recently found out - can finish off a chicken or Christmas prime rib roast much better than my Genesis S-330 without one. (As it sounds like you already do too, Larry has a very intriguing method of how to finish pizza which I intend to try for the first time next week.)

Bottom line really is, if you got "7 years of flawless service without any issues" out of your prior 470 - why would you not go back to one over a few hundred bucks difference? Keep in mind, whatever you get is a long-term investment and the Summit includes a rotisserie, which probably costs another $100+ to add to a GII (though you'll probably spend most of that on an rcplanebuyers smoker box replacement kit), but you'll never be able to add the IR-burner function at any cost. Probably similar reasons as to why you chose a Yoder over a cheapie, made-in-China Traeger, eh? Would you really want the difference in price back at this point? I'd wager not...
 
Trouble with a site like that is they're not impartial. This company makes it's living on Weber so they will not present anything else in it's proper light. That being said it's also old info as Weber has chosen to "update?" the me LX to a single burner sear system as opposed to a MUCH more sensible approach to the all burners having high output ability. I am sure this was a cost saving move or perhaps they found if all burners had a high output the firebox was being compromised and was resulting in warranty claims as from my observation of the product the fire box was definitely made thinner.
It does (the site) give a decent rundown of comparison to the Summit.
Another poster indicated it is nice that Summit is still a "made in USA" product. There may be a few parts of it made here and it may be packaged here but I would hardly call it made in USA and would not base a buying decision of the product on that over some of the other brands I mentioned. Also another thing I saw some note that Napoleon was a Chinese product. This is ONLY true of their small entry level products. I recently had a new fireplace installed in my home and the dealer is an Empire Products dealer (BroilMaster) and a Napoleon dealer. I looked at the Napoleon line very carefully and was duly impressed. The better (mid level and up) are made in Canada NOT China. It is a product that if I were in the market for a NEW mid to high end grill I would definitely consider. Again not because of being made in Canada but because from what I saw it's a FAR better made product than what Weber has become. Again this is IMO and a Weber fanatic may differ in opinion. But, I am no longer enthralled with their products. And IMO $1400 for the 4 burner Genesis is robbery. If it was a $700 grill I would be all over it as IMO given the "quality" and low cost of mfg that is where it's true value should be priced
 
I dont count myself a weber fanatic. I like the old models best for their simplicity and durability. But I still think weber makes a very solid product based on the experiences and thoughts of my friends, neighbors, and family.

Regarding price the new weber's seem expensive but they really aren't in comparison to the old ones. My dad paid $550 for his Genesis approximately 25 years ago. That grill is comparable to a Genesis II non stainless 3 burner currently selling for $700. Adjusted for inflation the new model is less. Of course a stainless model with more burners is considerably more. But it would have been back then too.

The problem with so many of the non weber models is the cheap grade of stainless they use on the exterior (lid and side tables). It might not rust through for many years but it looks horrible after just a year or 2. That and so many companies use sheet metal for all or part of the firebox. Weber might be using thinner aluminum castings but I'll bet it still lasts many years and is infinitely better than painted sheet metal.

I will say napoleon grills are interesting. That's a grill I would consider. But I really hate those gimmicky curved grates. Do they use quality stainless? I'm not sure.

Nobody knows if the Genesis II models will hold up long term like the older models do. I'm betting they do. All I know is so far so good for the ones I've seen. Some of them have already lasted longer than several non weber grills I've owned.
 
I have three weber gas grills a 20 year old genesis 1000 upgraded to a 2000 I bought new, a 13 year old e320 NG genesis and my recently acquired 19 year old skyline. With that said I have no experience with the GenII grills. Although looking over the new gens at the big box stores I think the quality is still there, time will tell.

People thought I was nuts to spend almost $500 on a grill when I bought my 1000LX when you could buy a new char broil grill for around $100. To me it boils down to performance vs. value and longevity. All my gas grills heat up fast and hot more importunity they produce even heat, no cold or hot spots. The only thing I've every had to replace was one set of FBS on the 1000 and grates on the e320 with an average age of about 17 years I think that says a lot for weber.

I know I'm talking about past generations of Weber's.
I think that's one thing that weber focused on was the grills performance and I still think that they would be doing that today and the reviews I've read pretty much agree.
 
Rich I have to admit I also thought my father was nuts for spending $500+ on a grill way back then. Turns out he (and you) were a lot smarter than I was regarding grills.....

In doing a few minutes of internet sleuthing it looks like Napoleon does use higher grade stainless and cast aluminium on at least some of their grills. Definitely a grill to consider if buying new except for those aforementioned curved grates.
 
Unfortunately, it will take another dozen years or so to make a final determination on how these new fangled grills actually perform and last.

With all the options and accessories these grills seem to come with now, I don't expect you will have a fully functional grill after that time. Sear burners, individual igniters for each burner, built in thermometers and thermostats, etc.... I appreciate the simplicity of the older Webers as much as I do their performance and durability.

It is pretty tough to justify a new $1000 plus grill when you hold off replacing the 15 year old oven in the kitchen. LOL.
 
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I agree Bruce. But you don't have to buy a genesis II with all that extra stuff. Me I would just go with the basic $700 model that's similar to my old 1000.
 
I agree Greg, But I would take a step further and find an old Silver B for $25 and clean it up and replace the internals that need it and save the $500 for steaks, chickens, ribs, burgers, etc.....
 
Bruce said:
I agree Greg, But I would take a step further and find an old Silver B for $25 and clean it up and replace the internals that need it and save the $500 for steaks, chickens, ribs, burgers, etc.....
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I like your thinking Bruce, that's exactly what Barb and I did. With the savings from rehabbing our old weber's we have two freezers in the garage that are completely full of steaks, chicken, pork, homemade bacon, etc.
 
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