First butt - water or no water


 
D

Dave Wr.

TVWBB Member
I'm getting ready to smoke my first butt for pulled pork. I have been using the pan with the clay base/foiled. I've read a lot of different opinions on water in the pan vs. clay pots etc. I do understand the heat sink issue but the question I have is how successful have those been who have used just the pan - no water - no clay pot etc. in keeping a steady temp? I get the impression that the more experienced you become - most people who use the just the pan have been very successful. One post I read suggested that a clay pot would actually spike a temp the longer the cook if you over shoot the temp making it hard to bring back down?
Any feedback would be welcomed.
 
I've asked a lot of questions about the water pan in the past and I think I'm finally starting to understand it a little. Sand and the clay saucer work more as a dense mass heat shield than a heat sink. They will absorb the heat before releasing it which is why it's easy to overshoot your temps and makes it hard to get them down, the whole mass has to cool down somewhat before the temps will actually stablize thats why it's so important to catch the temps before they get close to your target temp. If you wait to long the sand or saucer will hit a certain temp and start releasing the stored heat and that temp is probably alot higher than you want. It can also be the reason why I have trouble keeping my temps stable because I think I'm fighting it more than controling it because it takes longer to see what the actual temp change is because once I close my dampers the sand continues to allow the increase in temp so I over compensate and close them more then the temps drop and because the sand has started to cool just enough to make the therm temps change I kick the damper open and because the sand hasn't started to heat up again the temps continue to drop and then the roller coaster ride begins. The water will hold the temps low and stable until the water evaporates. If using the clay or sand method I would suggest closing the dampers around 175 and wait awhile then slowly crack them a little at a time until you get where you want to be, this I think is why it takes some of us so long to get to out target 225-250 temps. using the clay pot or sand requires a little more patience and attention at first but will get easier once you get the hang of it. This is way different than my CG offset was and has become quit the learning experience for me. I mean it sounds good to me and hopefully it makes sense. So I guess the answer to your question would be to keep a close eye on your temps,they will rise fast but if your cooker is tight enough they should drop fast when you close the vents just bring the temps up slow and put a second layer of foil over the pan to make an air pocket between the pan and the dripping so they don't burn.
 
Dang, Don. After reading all that I'll never even THINK about using a clay pot base or sand in the pan again....ever! I've only used a clay pot base a couple of times, and found that temp adjustments were pretty difficult compared to water in the pan or nothing but a foiled pan.

With water in the pan I just light and load and shut the vents back about 50% when I'm no more than 25* shy of my target temp of 250*. Friday morning after adding one gal. of hot tap and one tea kettle of boiling water, I put my two pork butts on the grate, less than half an hour later after lighting the top of the coals in my ring with my propane weedburning torch.

My log shows I reached a 225* grate temp in fifteen minutes after putting the butts on, and was at my target temp of 250* an hour and a half later. No refueling, no problems, no worries, few vent adjustments....and all the pork was done in under 12 hours for supper. I actually slowed the cook down after turning/rotating them at the eight hour mark.
 
Originally posted by Dave Wr.:
I get the impression that the more experienced you become - most people who use the just the pan have been very successful.
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Temp adjustments are quite easy with nothing but a foiled pan, but folks that tell you they went to bed with the temp holding steady at such and such a temp and then woke up next morning with the cooker still holding at the same temp....well, you get my drift. You'll get some temp variances no matter what method you use, but anything between 225 and 275* is bbq, so it's all good. I prefer water in the pan simply because the steadier your temp the more predictable your cooking timeframe, and if I wanted the most predictibility I'd get a ATC like the guys who compete and have to make turn-ins on time.

If I cook two butts all day for supper, at least one of 'em will be done in time, I'm sure. I know my temp/times enough now to not have to worry about it. 1.5hr/lb for 7-9 lb pork butts cooked at 250*, ACTUAL GRATE TEMP, is plenty sufficient enough time, and even with water I know how to get the temp up soon enough, and then not to worry about it much. As for a little slower overnight cooks, I've done plenty of those too, but only tried no water in the pan overnight one time.
 
Dave R ... I knew it was a long winded explanation but I'm just trying to make sure I'm on the right track. I myself have started to consider just the foiled pan or water because the sand has been a pain for me.
 
Thanks for the great insight and info!- That's kind of where I was heading with my question - does the clay pot/sand really help or not, Is it a matter of becoming good at knowing your cooker and adjusting temps and does the space between the saucer and the pan effect things that much that it warrants the use of an additional heat sink. I'm going to try the butt(s) with just the foiled pan - I guess experience will ultimately decide. Thanks again for the great feedback!
 
Originally posted by Don Reed:
Dave R ... I knew it was a long winded explanation but I'm just trying to make sure I'm on the right track. I myself have started to consider just the foiled pan or water because the sand has been a pain for me.
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Don, you go ahead and take as many words as you need to describe your efforts and observations. I'm the worlds worst at wordiness, so I have no problem reading "long winded" explanations. You're probably just a detail-oriented kind of guy such as myself.

Anyway, I was just feeling your pain regarding trying the sand in the pan. I honestly think it's a bad idea from what I think I understand and have read, but surely not knocking you for trying and seeing if you could make it work. After all, that's what "Southern Living's Big Book of BBQ" teaches for the wsm.
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Originally posted by Dave Wr.:
Thanks for the great insight and info!- That's kind of where I was heading with my question - does the clay pot/sand really help or not, Is it a matter of becoming good at knowing your cooker and adjusting temps and does the space between the saucer and the pan effect things that much that it warrants the use of an additional heat sink. I'm going to try the butt(s) with just the foiled pan - I guess experience will ultimately decide. Thanks again for the great feedback!
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Dave, you're welcome. Basically, although you'll need to make more vent adjustments, the advantage is that you can cook quicker. I'd foil if cooking over 275* and be careful cooking on the bottom grate without water in the pan. After taking the lid off, charcoal is fast to get out of control (absent a heat sink) and temps are slow to recover, so be aware of that disadvantage to just using a foil pan, as well. No peekin' or moppin', but flipping or at least turning butts 180* a couple times in the cook (like 1/3 and 2/3rd of cook, starting and finishing fat down if you flip) when cooking more than one on a rack is always a good idea. Just shut the bottom vents before taking the lid off and get the lid back on real fast after tending to the meat. Be sure to get the vents re-opened, of course. Hope this helps, and good luck. I don't recommend skipping water for overnight cooks.
 
By the way Don - I very much appreciate your reply and the time you took for it
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This seems like one of those topics that keeps popping up and everyone has good points on each scenario. I'll be sure to post the results as I experiment.
 
I'm sure the sand and clay pot users probably think I'm crazy but as we all know what works well for some may not work well for others thats why we experiment.
 
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