does sand in the pan make a difference?


 
J

J Sutter

New member
Hi-
I have had terrible results when cooking a chicken on the WSM. The meat is lovely but the skin is moist and rubbery. Something I was reading made me think, would it make a difference if I used sand in the pan instead of water. Would the skin be less rubbery? Any body have experience with this?

Also, does anyone have experinece with the big green egg? I've heard it cooks a chicken perfectly.

Thanks
Jed Sutter
18" WSM
Weber genesis Silver
 
It's not really the water pan that is the "problem", but rather the temp you are cooking at. You'll probably need to lose the water and use an empty or sand filled pan in order to hit the temps you need to avoid rubbery skin. You may also like to crisp the skin a bit directly over the charcoals in your WSM or on your Genesis after it's done smoking.

The Big Green Egg will cook rubbery chicken too if you run it at the same temp as you are running your WSM.
 
J try skipping the water pan altogether or simply use a few foil balls in it it and cover it with foil indented to cath drippings.

(If you don't use a pan and it's a good size roaster you might want to start breast down, then flip say 2/3 of the way through to finish.)

Leave your lid slightly askew, all vents wide open.

Try letting your bird air dry in a fridge say 6 hours before you cook it, rub it with butter or oil. If you have the patience sperate the skin from the breast with a spoon and get a little herbed butter under there too.

This should help a lot.
 
tottally agree w/ Shawn and B. all the way, I don't personally understand sand, or even a clay pot (well I do, but I refuse to use sand, and havn't had trouble w/ out a "clay pot"), ... a plain foiled pan IS unstable as heck at first but I know you'll have it figured out in no time after about an hour cooking, when temp is where your happy I just close all vents, but use just one, of course temp for your bird, I'll assume you'll want high so then you'll adjust for that. Most i'de say prefer a pretty high temp for chicken, so nothin' in there at all may make you happy (it suits me great) + excellent advise from shawn w/ the lid proped open a tad, that certainly helps.
 
Usually spatchcock a chicken direct 350*+ or if I want bite through the skin thighs 400* indirect @45 minutes on the Big Green Egg.

I run my WSM's dry with lava rocks foiled over in the waterpan with a drip pan. Mostly cook whole birds on a throne @250-275*
 
When I do chicken on the WSM, I leave the water pan out all together. I love chichen skin, best part of the chicken, so I want it crispy. If you want to be able to eat the skin, you have to cook the chicken over high heat 350º +. Low and slow, won't get you crispy skin. Even with an empty water pan in there, your're still not getting the hot direct heat that's needed for great crispy skin, IMO. FWIW, I haven't used water in my water pan going on 6 years now for any cook.
 
I use the ceramic dish full of sand which can be easily removed. For chicken I always use an empty pan covered in foil to catch the drippings and make the clean up a snap. I usually spatchcock, rub with EVOO and whatever rub I am using that day, crank up the WSM, door cracked, all vents open, basically getting it as hot as possible (over 450 often), check chicken at 40 minutes, usually done in less than an hour. Perfectly roasted.
 
Well, I am doing my second cook on the WSM and I can say unequivocally, that sand is better than water!!! You don't have to refill it. The cooking enviornment is dryer leading to better bark formation. And, the temp is much steadier and easier to control. NO MORE WATER FOR ME!!!!
 
Whoa-
Whole lot of info here, and all of it appreciated. Some of it blows my mind.

I thought the WSM was all about "low and slow". So far I've cooked a few butts, lots and lots of ribs, some salmon and a few disappointing chickens. All pretty much on the 200-250 degree end of things .

You mean you guys are using it at high heats too? (I must sound like an imbecile)

If there's nothing in the pan can the high heat of the fire damage it?

Brian, when you leave the pan out are you putting the chicken on the top rack I assume?

And what's a spatchcock?

Thanks one and all
Jed
 
I have never seen a problem with high temp cooks and a dry waterpan, no damage.

Direct cooking 18" to 21" above coal bed is a time honored tradition.

Spatchcock, is butterfling poultry by taking out the backbone.

Jim
 
Hey J,
Yes, the WSM is a smoker for low and slow and an outstanding roaster for high heat cooking (450), as well as in between (325 for turkeys is easy). Anything above low and slow, I use an empty waterpan...just covered in foil for easy cleanup (suspend the foil above the bottom so the drippings do not burn). The more airflow, the higher the heat in general. Easy ways to crank up the heat (besides having all vents open) are simply to turn the door upside down and prop open (or even take off) or put the top on slightly askew (I discovered the latter two by accident
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then saw them posted here)

High heat spatchcocked chicken is really fantastic, I cook over lump (higher temps are easier in my experience with lump), I use about 1/3 -1/2 ring of lump, dump on about 1/2 chimney of lit, add a couple of hunks of wood (apple/cherry are great for chicken), put it together, put on the chicken...walk away. I don't even bother to check the temp any more, I know it will rock and the chicken will be done in less than an hour (3.5-4 lb chicken).
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J Sutter:
You mean you guys are using it at high heats too? (I must sound like an imbecile)

If there's nothing in the pan can the high heat of the fire damage it?

Brian, when you leave the pan out are you putting the chicken on the top rack I assume?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
High heat briskets are popular around here as well.
No damage to the pan on high heat cooks.
I do more high heat cooks than low and slow cooks. I use my WSM like a grill also. I'm cooking a top round, AKA "london broil" right now on the lower grate no water pan direct over lump.
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When I do whole chickens, yes top grate. When doing pieces I use the lower grate. HTH
 
I really enjoy spatchcocked birds on the WSM too ... you can just cut through the ribs on one side of the spine and leave it like that, it's how I've been doing them.
 
wow this is great im gettin' all kinds of ideas, london broil, bottom rack... high heat, brilliant. I guess i just march out to the grill instead and don't even think about some of this stuff except for chicken.
 
So if I follow you, on a high heat cook the pan serves mostly to catch drippings to avoid flare up? What would be the pros and cons for pan/no pan? Does a spatchcock chicken do better over a pan or without one?
 
J.
The advantage of the pan is no worries about flareups/burning....it is really set-it-and-forget-it...at least for 40 minutes or so (that is when I first check). I've not tried it without the pan...don't really see the advantages, but I've read plenty of posts where the pan is not used...I'd guess when using the top rack, the chance of burning is low...with foil lining the cleanup is minimal....so give it a try both ways and see how you like it.

Dan,
As Bryan wrote, I'm using this more for high heat now than low....briskets are fabulous as are chucks....gotta love this thing, but I am a sucker for anything with a smoky taste.

Don
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Don Irish:
J.
The advantage of the pan is no worries about flareups/burning.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Flare ups are a non issue because of the distance away from the coals. That's the whole reason I prefer to cook on the WSM verses the grill. I haven't used any of my grills in 2 years, yet I bought 2 more this year off of CL.
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Even with chicken pieces on the lower grate, never had and flareups with that method. I cook chops, steaks, Tris, burgers all direct, on the lower grate, over lump, with a picec of wood or 2 in there, and no water pan. HTH
 
J sorry for putting this in ur thread, I had a ? Bryan in the portable grills section, been there just a while though, no problem. bought my unibit sized needed today, mind takin a look? thanks a lot. ...sorry guys.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bryan S:
... I cook chops, steaks, Tris, burgers all direct, on the lower grate, over lump, with a picec of wood or 2 in there, and no water pan. HTH </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bryan, is it awkward to flip burgers on the lower grate? Isn't it hard to get a spatula in there? or do you turn everything with tongs?

Thanks
 
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