PeterD
TVWBB Super Fan
Just read a fascinating piece over on Amazing Ribs, in which the myth of what causes the plateau to occur is thoroughly examined. Good read and quite eye-opening.
Debunking the plateau
- Thread starter PeterD
- Start date
George Curtis
TVWBB Olympian
not sure what i found out but i did find that my stall time was less when i moved to high temp smoking. great article, thanks.
Matt Sanders
TVWBB Pro
Peter,
Interesting read. I like that site, and I know Meathead has previously said the stall is from the collagens melting.
Interesting read. I like that site, and I know Meathead has previously said the stall is from the collagens melting.
Matt Sanders
TVWBB Pro
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">endothermic reaction of phase changes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, that's what I was thinking...
Yeah, that's what I was thinking...
Lew Newby
R.I.P. 1/26/2024
Thanks! That's a very interesting read and the science seems correct but I've been away from that stuff for decades. I enjoy barbecuing but thermodynamics does not bring fond memories. Now, I can either go to high heat or stick with low and slow and suffer the anguish of a sustained thermodynamically defined stall.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
this is essentially the "wet bulb" theory promoted by Nathan M and the Modernist Cuisine lab. I'm wondering when this article was posted. They did some nice work with their experiments, however the stall may have already been figured out.
one thing that wasn't discussed in the article, is the ambient humidity of your cooking chamber. Humidity controls the wet bulb temp, which is the temp the meat will stall at. one additional way to control the stall is to boost the humidity.
btw, its nice to see someone promoting HH
one thing that wasn't discussed in the article, is the ambient humidity of your cooking chamber. Humidity controls the wet bulb temp, which is the temp the meat will stall at. one additional way to control the stall is to boost the humidity.
btw, its nice to see someone promoting HH
Michael G. (Canada Mike)
TVWBB All-Star
Very interesting. But, did he rub the sponge? And when done was it pulled or sliced?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
this is essentially the "wet bulb" theory promoted by Nathan M and the Modernist Cuisine lab. I'm wondering when this article was posted. They did some nice work with their experiments, however the stall may have already been figured out.
one thing that wasn't discussed in the article, is the ambient humidity of your cooking chamber. Humidity controls the wet bulb temp, which is the temp the meat will stall at. one additional way to control the stall is to boost the humidity.
btw, its nice to see someone promoting HH </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jeff,
Thanks for mentioning the Modernist Cuisine discussion of this. I figured if anyone has determined effect of evaporative cooling of meat, it would have been in their <STRIKE>lab</STRIKE>, er, kitchen.
Regarding ambient humidity, it was discussed towards the end of the article:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Will basting the meat or putting a water pan in the smoker impact the stall? "There is no question extra humidity will slow down the cooking process, whether it comes from a water pan or wet mop." ... When we put a water pan in the cooker, the moisture evaporates from the surface and raises the humidity in the cooker, slowing the evaporation from the meat, and slowing the cooking. "In low and slow cooking this allows the meat's interior to catch up with the surface temperature" explains Blonder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think this is what you meant in your post.
Jim
this is essentially the "wet bulb" theory promoted by Nathan M and the Modernist Cuisine lab. I'm wondering when this article was posted. They did some nice work with their experiments, however the stall may have already been figured out.
one thing that wasn't discussed in the article, is the ambient humidity of your cooking chamber. Humidity controls the wet bulb temp, which is the temp the meat will stall at. one additional way to control the stall is to boost the humidity.
btw, its nice to see someone promoting HH </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jeff,
Thanks for mentioning the Modernist Cuisine discussion of this. I figured if anyone has determined effect of evaporative cooling of meat, it would have been in their <STRIKE>lab</STRIKE>, er, kitchen.
Regarding ambient humidity, it was discussed towards the end of the article:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Will basting the meat or putting a water pan in the smoker impact the stall? "There is no question extra humidity will slow down the cooking process, whether it comes from a water pan or wet mop." ... When we put a water pan in the cooker, the moisture evaporates from the surface and raises the humidity in the cooker, slowing the evaporation from the meat, and slowing the cooking. "In low and slow cooking this allows the meat's interior to catch up with the surface temperature" explains Blonder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think this is what you meant in your post.
Jim
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
But I think the article gets it wring Jim. If evaporative cooling is slowing down heat transfer, then cooking closer to dew point (more humidity) should reduce the cooling and the stall. Compare a humid summer day to a dry one.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
Don't know about all that, but I did find it queastionable about bbq taking longer in water smokers.
I use water most of the time, but haven't found dry pan cooks to be any quicker unless simply cooking at higher temps. Never known anyone else to suggest any different, either. Myron Mixon brags about how fast he cooks briskets and he uses water pans.
I use water most of the time, but haven't found dry pan cooks to be any quicker unless simply cooking at higher temps. Never known anyone else to suggest any different, either. Myron Mixon brags about how fast he cooks briskets and he uses water pans.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
Right-oh, and if there's water in the pan, evaporation off the surface of the meat is SLOWED...which would mean less of a cooling effect. So why then did the article say that water smokers took longer?
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
I think of it this way: dry cooking environment will exaggerate the evaporative cooling and drag out the stall, a cooking environment at dew point will have no evaporative cooling and no stall.
Wet meat isn't the problem, dry air is.
Wet meat isn't the problem, dry air is.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
I think of it this way: dry cooking environment will exaggerate the evaporative cooling and drag out the stall, a cooking environment at dew point will have no evaporative cooling and no stall.
Wet meat isn't the problem, dry air is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope. You've still got to get the same amount of moisture out of the meat (unless you foil) so it will take longer to evaporate that moisture in a moist environment. The difference could be a higher plateau temperature with the water pan. Someone should do the experiment to find out.
I think of it this way: dry cooking environment will exaggerate the evaporative cooling and drag out the stall, a cooking environment at dew point will have no evaporative cooling and no stall.
Wet meat isn't the problem, dry air is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope. You've still got to get the same amount of moisture out of the meat (unless you foil) so it will take longer to evaporate that moisture in a moist environment. The difference could be a higher plateau temperature with the water pan. Someone should do the experiment to find out.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
If you cook at dew point, which would be the same as boiling, surface moisture is irrelevant.
Combi ovens work on this principle, cooking with precise, temperature controlled, steam.
Combi ovens work on this principle, cooking with precise, temperature controlled, steam.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JRPfeff:
You've still got to get the same amount of moisture out of the meat (unless you foil) so it will take longer to evaporate that moisture in a moist environment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Someone help me get this. Why would you have "to get the same amount of moisture out of the meat?" Does tenderness directly correlate with the meat having to lose a certain amount of moisture? Learn something new every day, but I still haven't noticed that bbq takes longer when I simmer water in the pan as the article suggested. I do know that the stall starts later when simmering water, and the hotter I cook, the shorter it is. Go figure.
You've still got to get the same amount of moisture out of the meat (unless you foil) so it will take longer to evaporate that moisture in a moist environment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Someone help me get this. Why would you have "to get the same amount of moisture out of the meat?" Does tenderness directly correlate with the meat having to lose a certain amount of moisture? Learn something new every day, but I still haven't noticed that bbq takes longer when I simmer water in the pan as the article suggested. I do know that the stall starts later when simmering water, and the hotter I cook, the shorter it is. Go figure.