Debunking the plateau


 
Dave, the meat should stall around dew point inside the smoker. You may be cooking at 250 but evaporative cooling on wet surfaces will prevent them from heating over 165. Once the meat surface has dried, evaporative cooling stops and warming speeds ups. Higher temps and or high humidity should lessen the stall.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
Dave, the meat should stall around dew point inside the smoker. You may be cooking at 250 but evaporative cooling on wet surfaces will prevent them from heating over 165. Once the meat surface has dried, evaporative cooling stops and warming speeds ups. Higher temps and or high humidity should lessen the stall. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, J. I think I get that and would think the same thing regarding high humidity lessening the stall. However, check out this portion of the article again:


"Will basting the meat or putting a water pan in the smoker impact the stall? "There is no question extra humidity will slow down the cooking process, whether it comes from a water pan or wet mop." When we baste, whether by mopping, brushing, or spritzing, we cool the meat just by the fact that the liquid is cool. It then sits on the surface and evaporates prolonging the stall. When we put a water pan in the cooker, the moisture evaporates from the surface and raises the humidity in the cooker, slowing the evaporation from the meat, and slowing the cooking. "In low and slow cooking this allows the meat's interior to catch up with the surface temperature" explains Blonder.

Until now I had always believed that water pans were important to keep the cooking chamber high humidity and thereby reduce moisture loss from the meat. Apparently it does this somewhat, but they also cause the cook to take longer. But this is no reason to stop using water pans because the moisture in the atmosphere inside the cooking chamber mixes with the smoke, influences flavor, and lets the meat's interior catch up with the exterior so it cooks more uniformly."


I agree with a lot of that, especially the benifits of water pans, but I don't see how mopping increases humidity in the cooker much since you have to open the lid everytime you do it. Also, sounds like the article is stating that added humidity LENGTHENS the stall. I'd seem to think otherwise as you, and I also don't see that the water pan slows down the cooking. It definately slows down evaporation off the surface of the meat, but where do they get that it slows down cooking? I did a lot of searches when I first got my wsm to see if the water pan made differences in cook times and my own experiences confirmed what others had observed, that cooking at the same temp, water added nothing to the cooktime, accept for a slower ramp up in temp.

What say you?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but I don't see how mopping increases humidity </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It doesn't. Mopping with a water-based baste will slow cooking because the surface is cooled and it increases evaporative cooling at the surface. Mopping with a fat-based baste will speed cooking - at least somewhat - because it thwarts evaporative cooling.

I see no reason to believe - anecdotally or scientifically - that high humidity slows cooking. In combis (where the humidity can be made to be quite high - much higher than a WSM) cooking is faster, likely because heat transfer is much more efficient in a moister environment (which is why 95? in Okeechobee feels much warmer than 95? in the much less humid desert air of Las Vegas).
 
I think we need to see some actual wet bulb temps to determine how things work at different temps and humidities. Nathan M believes we all should be cooking with a wet bulb in our smokers. I'm sort of interested in playing with one, but I'm not sure that the moisture lost during the stall can be avoided. By it's very nature BBQ gets way overcooked before it reaches tender, which squeezes out most of it's liquid. Even when foiled, meat sheds a lot of liquid.

The other problem is developing a caramelized crust. Maybe I'm misguided, but I encourage my briskets to dry out and have a well established bark before I even consider foiling it.
 
Kevin - You are incorrect about the heat transfer in FL vs. NV. Swamp coolers work in the desert, but not in the swamp. They cool the environment via evaporative cooling.

That's why they always tell you "but it's a dry heat" when reporting the temperature in the Southwest. Sweat evaporates and cools you in the desert. It does not evaporate and makes you feel hot & sticky in the tropics.

But I agree that the difference in cooling is probably minimal with & without a water pan. The moisture from the meat probably raises the smoker humidity the same amount that the water pan does.

jrp
 
Thanks for the help understanding all this, guys. I'm fine with the stall being the result of evaporative cooling. What I'm not fine with is taking proof of that to reach further conclusions that might not be accurate, like water smokers being slow. Wsm's are "slow", whether water's in the pan or not. Good point in the article about plateau's starting at higher temps in water smokers, though. Feel sorry for the poor fella that foils at 150* in a water smoker.

JRP, you're right about the meat adding humidity, and this is why cooking only one or two cuts in a big cooker isn't a good idea (unless foiling), unlike if you filled the cooker up for a big bbq with lots of meat. Chris Lilly claims that guys come to him with complaints after getting nice big pits for events and then firing 'em up with nothing but the family's supper. An old friend of mine gave me my first smoker after he built his pride and joy, a big trailered rig. You can guess what his freezer is quite often is full of...not raw meat, but smoked meat. However, I wouldn't minimize what the water in the pan adds to the cooker. This is apparent in both the steam that masquerades as smoke in the morning or cool evenings, as well as in the difference in bark formation. For the difference in bark and for the reason J mentioned, I don't use water in the pan if foiling ribs or briskets. I'd suggest that if someone doesn't notice a difference when using water in the pan that they simply need to cook at a higher temp, thus creating more steam. Might need to add hot water once or twice in a cook as well.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Kevin - You are incorrect about the heat transfer in FL vs. NV. Swamp coolers work in the desert, but not in the swamp. They cool the environment via evaporative cooling.That's why they always tell you "but it's a dry heat" when reporting the temperature in the Southwest. Sweat evaporates and cools you in the desert. It does not evaporate and makes you feel hot & sticky in the tropics. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, which is what I said so am not incorrect. More moisture in the air means more thermal conductivity. In a more moist environment heat transfer is more efficient. This is why foiling shortens cooking, and is why braising in a pot in liquid (that cannot get above 212?) is much quicker than cooking at 212 in dry heat.

More moisture in the air in Florida means temps feel hotter than the same temp in the desert. Swamp coolers and misters work in the desert, yes, because evaporative cooling is only possible in dry conditions, or relatively dry conditions.
 
Cook your briskets in the 325-350 range and you will never have a problem with this b/s stall.
 
Noe, never had my meat stall. It always gets done if I keep on cooking, so when I hear folks say that if you cook HH you won't have any problem with the stall...
icon_confused.gif
...Well, I didn't know I had a problem, but it stands to reason that if you cook at higher temps the meat will get "done" sooner. I mean, this is basically what you're really saying to someone that's not got a probe in a piece of meat tracking it's every little move. Know what I mean?
 
Mr.Russell i know exactly what you mean. My dad showed me how to bbq by feel, a proven very reliable technic never fails, no wires or batteries needed.
 
That's cool, Noe, and I envy your bbq heritage.

I had to learn by the seat of my pants after a good friend from Texas gave me my first offset only ten years or so ago, an old NB Silver Smoker. Everything I read told me that you were supposed to keep the temp down 'round 225-235* tops, but I couldn't do it and burn a clean fire. Well, so I practically gave the thing away after I made my first UDS. Then after I figured out that the center of my UDS was upwards of 275*, not 235* like my gauge on the side said, I was kickin' myself and I wished I'd never gotten rid of the little offset.
icon_frown.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top