Buying spare parts for early Genesis models - which parts will go first?

[Ed P]

You might be surprised to know that the song, "Happy Birthday to You", attributed in 1893, was copyrighted and licensing fees were collected as late as 2015, when it was determined that copyright fees were invalid and subsequently returned.

Happy Birthday to You - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All someone needs to do is find a sympathetic judge and it can cause no end of pain for someone making aftermarket parts that are too close to a patented product. Granted, the movie and record industry are the most staunchly protected and most commonly infringed upon, but it could potentially happen to anybody.

I worked for a company that was developing a machine that would fold a precut piece of sheet metal into a box-like shape. A simple corner would be formed by pinching a corner and then folding it to one side. That type of corner was patented by a gentleman in the late '60s and his wife had kept the patent renewed over the years. She wanted a licensing fee of $0.50 per box which the company refused to pay. We had to develop a way of folding the pinched corner to both sides and then patent that corner to protect it.

If you don't understand patent law, you could end up losing everything. The company I worked for had contracted a patent attorney that did all the legwork (for a substantial fee, I might add, but better that than losing the farm).

 

[Jim Owen]

I am guessing Weber could go after copyright infringement if the part was still available. Since they don't support the grill anymore, it may look really bad if they went after somebody for supporting their product for them.

 

[Ed P]

Jim, the point is, neither of us really know. Jon knows tax law, and patent law is every bit as convoluted. In both cases, what you don't know can be costly.

 

[LMichaels]

Seeing as how there are so many people already "infringing" on Weber's parts (hell almost every replacement part is copied in China). Once a company gets in bed with the devil (China) all bets are off. And Weber got deep in bed with them.

 

[Bruce]

Dave Santana doesn't seem to have a problem with Weber.

 

[Jon Tofte]

Seeing as how there are so many people already "infringing" on Weber's parts (hell almost every replacement part is copied in China). Once a company gets in bed with the devil (China) all bets are off. And Weber got deep in bed with them.

Yep, Larry. George would not have liked the way things have gone .

 

[Ed P]

Seeing as how there are so many people already "infringing" on Weber's parts (hell almost every replacement part is copied in China). Once a company gets in bed with the devil (China) all bets are off. And Weber got deep in bed with them.

You guys may very well be right, infringement may not be an issue. Who knows? I sure don't. But I was the one that had to change the corner folding on that folding machine we were developing because someone held a patent from 50 years ago, so once bitten, twice shy.

 

[Bruce]

I would call it a "Custom" drip pan for a Weber Genesis grill. I don't think anyone would bother you as long as it didn't look to be an exact duplicate of the OEM pan. Unless you were mass producing and selling them openly, then I don't see it even hitting the Weber radar anyway.

 

[BobH-SCW]

Yah, I'd take SS over porcelain.

This is the link where I saw a porcelain drip tray for the Silver A: https://www.grillparts.com/weber/silver_a.asp?product_id=99251

 

[Jon Tofte]

Bob,
That is a good link to post here, hopefully it will be in stock when they say. Many of those Silver A and similar Spirit grills had cheap aluminum drip tray. This is a lot better and longer lasting.

Now, I just wish they had one for the x000 Genesis grills!

 

[Gary - bassguitarist1985]

How much could a stamping dye in the rough shape (not exactly to weber design) cost to make? I can't imagine that much for a steel shop.

What costs probably the most is an employee to run the stamping machine, material purchasing person, the stainless steel coiled steel material, CS person to help with orders, e-commerce website (there are plenty of low cost ones) that can handle order intake, payment etc, a shipping person, and shipping account/discount. That infrastructure is costly. However for a company that had that infrastructure...other than Weber, could do very well with all us on here looking!

 

[Bruce]

Ahhh, I am not so sure about that. While there are a lot of people on this list that would consider a custom SS drip pan, the average person would simply dump the grill at that point. There are only so many on this list that would be willing to spring for a custom SS drip pan. Unless they could keep the cost down, I don't think it would get that many sales.

 

[Ed P]

Gary, I worked at an electrical connector manufacturer for 6 years. They have stamping presses that ranged from 5-ton Benchmasters to 15-, 20-, 25-, and 30-ton Ing Yu and several 30-ton Bruderer presses. They also had a 100-ton Minster press, all of that equipment to make electrical connectors. It will surprise you how much tonnage it requires to produce a part like a drip pan, and if you are considering stainless steel as a material your costs will go up exponentially.

They had 2 wire EDM machines to produce heat-treated A-2 and carbide inserts for the dies. Anyway, here's some pictures of the parts they produced and the dies that were used (apologies for the blurred pictures). We are talking about itty-bitty electrical connectors. That strip in picture number 3 are switch contacts for Leviton...most of the material is removed and recycled.

Don't make the mistake of thinking their presses were under-utilized. Like I said, it takes a lot of grunt to stamp a drip pan, but how much, I dunno. Maybe a die maker knows, but I don't.

 

[Ed P]

And prior to working there, I worked at a light gauge structural steel building material manufacturer for nearly 3 years, although they did more metal forming than punching. These rolls of sheet metal weigh over 40,000 lbs. and one of the guys sent me a picture of what happens when a crane fails. It's the only place I've ever worked where people were killed on the job.

And here is what happens when you take a corner too fast with a single roll of steel that heavy. The truck driver probably had to find another job after this day.

 

[Ed P]

Thought you guys might like to see how they do their stamping/drawing operations in China...

EDIT: I have no idea of the tonnage of this press, but I would guess it is close to 4 times as large or larger than the 100-ton Minster I worked on, so maybe 500-ton? (I just looked a little closer and those workers are actually sitting within the die area. Those platens are huge! It's gotta be at least a 1000-ton press or more).

 

[Gary - bassguitarist1985]

In my last job I did the logistics for our steel division. We would import massive coiled steels eye to the side like that, 3-6 of them on a flatbed. They would be cut down and paint coated, then re-rolled eye to the sky on pallets, and those "smaller" coils would be weighing out at 7-10k pounds!

Coiled steel is a restricted commodity due to concentrated weight. Very strict rules on loading methods and pallet size to spread the weight out in the trailer. Intermodal is even more strict with safety rules. I was working with the AAR, the safety division to move the cut down coils from over the road to intermodal as the cost savings would be enormous. We had to get get a new loading method tested, reviewed and approved. That involved actually crashing intermodal cars on a 3 mile closed rail track. That sadly never happened. Company did not believe in spending $25k in testing to save over $100k's in transportation costs. Still, the engineers in Colorado at TTCI sent me videos of 55mph flaming train wrecks. Sooo satisfying to watch!

Thats my little story. Carry on all!

 

[Sam Bee]

Ok folks, if it were possible to get a custom SS drip pan for the 1000-5000 grills who would be interested in a group buy? I contacted RC (Dave S.) about it and here's his response...

Hello Sam, thank you for asking. I could make something that would work but it would not be cheap. I would have to make the flat part. then bend it up to shape and weld the long diagonal seams to make them watertight.
The OEM parts are stamped from a single plate in one or two strokes with special dies. I don't have that kind of equipment.
Dave

Although he does not have the die machines (discussed in the above posts) he possibly could make one that would work but it won't be cheap. I'm waiting on him for the price.

 

[Bruce]

Thanks for pursuing that Sam. Keep us posted. I would be interested in one, but I am thinking the price is going to be more than I would be willing to pay. I have enough used ones for my rehabs that I can draw from if necessary.

 

[Ed P]

Yes, thanks, Sam! Mine are in good shape but I'm interested in learning how much they will cost. And I'd love to see Dave's finished product, he does such beautiful work.

 

[LMichaels]

It depends on what he considers expensive. I remember when I contacted him for custom grates on my Wolf. He said the same thing. But IMO they were VERY cheap for what I got. I was expecting him to come back and tell me in the range of mid $400 to $500 for them and in the end they were FAR le$$ so I would love to see the numbers he comes up with