Brisket over butt: hot & fast, or low & slow?


 
C

ChadVKealey

TVWBB Pro
On Sunday, I'm planning to cook a brisket and was going to try a hot-and-fast (H&F) approach since my results from the low-and-slow (L&S) method have been inconsistent at best. Well, I got a great deal on a couple of boston butts yesterday, and would like to do one of those on the bottom grate with the brisket on the top. The problem is that I've had very good luck with L&S for butts and have never done one H&F.

So, looking for opinions here on the relative merits. Should I do them both H&F? If so, I'd be running at probably 300-325 (that seems to be all I can get out of my WSM with and empty, foiled water pan) and wrap them in parchment (or peach butcher paper if I can find it locally) when they hit ~160.

Or, should I go for L&S (225-250), knowing that the butt will be great, but the brisket (which is supposed to be the star of the meal - the butts just being cooked as backup and to make full use of the space I have) may be another miss.

I've found lots of info comparing/contrasting the two methods for a single hunk of meat, but nothing that talks about combining two different meats in the same cook.
 
I have done both brisket and pork butts on my WSM22 on a number of occasions with no problems at all. Always do them at 225* with butts on bottom rack and brisket on top rack. Foil both at 165* Then start checking for tender at 185*. As for me, briskets have always done very well with this process. Will be doing this same thing for Labor Day this weekend without the butts however.

What was wrong with the briskets you cooked and what was the process you used?
 
If you're doing a flat on it's own, a little extra insurance might be to put the butt on the top rack and let it drip on the brisket. No worries if you're doing a point or a packer.
 
Bob Ivey said:
What was wrong with the briskets you cooked and what was the process you used?
Click to expand...

I've done a couple good ones, but more often than not, the flat ends up a bit dry and rubbery or chewy. Every one I've done (since getting my WSM) was an overnight cook. The last couple briskets seemed to cook fast because for one reason or another, my cooker was running hot (275-300), and I think I overreacted and pulled them too soon, fearing that they'd overcook. In both cases, I separated the point, cubed it and put it on in foil for burnt ends, which turned out fantastic.

So, my main interest in wanting to try the H&F method was to see if intentionally cooking at a higher temp was a more reliable path to a good final product. FWIW, both the butt and brisket I'll be cooking are about 11 lb. each, so that would be a whole lot of meat to help stabilize the temps. And some of the guests have digestive issues with pork fat, so the brisket has to go on top.
 
Chad, what was your process from the time you hit the stall at about 165* to finish? Did you just cook to temp or time? Or did you check for tenderness starting at about 185*? After you pulled from the smoker, what did you do? Also, did you foil when you hit the stall?

The following is my process.
When I hit the stall at about 165*, I foil the brisket. There will still be plenty of fat on the brisket to keep it moist. When the IT hits 185* I start to check for tender by using the probe from my Thermapen. You can also use a toothpick or something similar. If not tender at this point, wait and try again in 30 min. Continue testing every 30 min until tender. When tender, remove from smoker and let rest on counter for about 30 min until IT is down to about 170*. At this point, wrap with a double layer of foil and place in a cooler wrapped in towels for at least an hour until time to serve. This has always worked for me and made for a great brisket. This is what I will do this weekend for Labor Day. Good Luck.
 
Chad,

I fear that you will have additional issues when you go to hot and fast. The "Tenderness Window of Opportunity" is shorter when doing hot and fast.

Unlike Bob, I foil when it is fully in the stall and the bark is fully set. Also include a little ( 1/4 - 1/2 cup ) braising liquid of my choice. I wrap it very tightly... So tightly that no steam is allowed to escape nor is any steam allowed to circulate within the foiled 'package'. Otherwise, my process follows Bob's.
 
I'm sure you'll find plenty of hot and fast experts here. My process is pretty close to Bob Ivey and Bob Bass. I just use butcher paper and no braising liquid (foil and liquid is great too). My experience is that the pork is the least of your worries cooking hot and fast. I have cooked hot and fast pork that turned out great. If you wanna try hot and fast I don't think the pork will be an issue.
 
Bob Ivey said:
Chad, what was your process from the time you hit the stall at about 165* to finish? Did you just cook to temp or time? Or did you check for tenderness starting at about 185*? After you pulled from the smoker, what did you do? Also, did you foil when you hit the stall?
Click to expand...

I cook to temp, not time. At about 170, I foiled it tightly and stuck the probe back in through the foil. At about 185, I opened the foil and probed a few spots. The point seemed tender, but the flat was still tight. I separated them, cubing the point and putting it in a pan with some sauce, then covering with foil and onto the lower grate. The flat, I foiled up and put back on the top rack. When it hit 195, I checked and it still seemed tight (the probe would go in, but there was resistence). Thinking it was overdone, I pulled it and rested in a cooler for a couple hours.

In the end, the burnt ends were great, but the flat, as I said, seemed dry and a bit chewy. The flavor was good, but the texture...not so much. Thankfully, the burnt ends made up for it.
 
I went with low & slow (230-240 for about 16 hours) and was quite happy with the results on both the brisket and butt.

For the brisket, I wrapped in butcher paper after 12 hours, then separated the point at 14 hours, re-wrapping the flat and dicing the point for burnt ends. I think the burnt ends could have used another hour or so, but at least neither part dried out.

The butt (and 11.5 pound boneless) was easily the largest I've ever cooked. I just let it ride on the lower grate the entire time and rested for about an hour before shredding. Hands-down, it was the best I've ever made.

Sorry, we were entertaining, so I didn't manage to get finished pics of either :(
 
Congrats on the great results Chad. Sounds like all had a great time and some really great food.
 
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