Brisket Bark Question


 
R

r benash

TVWBB Emerald Member
Made a couple of HH briskets today using the coffee-cardamom rub recipe LarryR posted on another thread.

Both briskets finished nice and tender. My problem is that I was not able to put them back on to complete/harden the bark so its still soft from being in the foil.

I had to run when I pulled them and wasn't able to get back in time to finish that out.

I'll be taking these to the shore tomorrow and will probably need to take card of the bark in an oven.

I'm a assuming that giving the brisket a trip in the oven at 400 degrees or thereabouts making sure internal doesn't go over 140 should do it?

Normally I wouldn't bother but this rub is a little thicker than typical and also would be better I think if the sugar in the rub had a chance to caramelize a bit more as well.

Wondering if any of you have tried this.

I typically vac seal and would just reheat in the bag in a pot of water to bring it up to temp. But really think the bark on these need a little help.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm a assuming that giving the brisket a trip in the oven at 400 degrees or thereabouts making sure internal doesn't go over 140 should do it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. It can be tricky, depending on what you are using for reheating. Starting with the brisket cold helps immensely. You can, alternatively, reheat gently, then quickly broil to texture the bark, being very careful not to go too long - i.e., removing just before it looks like you want it, so as not to burn. (It can be pretty quick.)
 
Ray, I do HH all the time with briskets. Pull the brisket off just before it gets real tender, Take brisket out of the foil and throw back on the smoker for a little bit to firm up that bark. Probably my only complaint about the HH is initial lack of crunchy bark.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by george curtis:
i never foil. for me i found no reason to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi George - Understood, I typically wouldn't foil either these were done doing HH method. I do like capturing the drippings though. I have a nice base for for serving/making the sauce.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by paul h:
Ray, I do HH all the time with briskets. Pull the brisket off just before it gets real tender, Take brisket out of the foil and throw back on the smoker for a little bit to firm up that bark. Probably my only complaint about the HH is initial lack of crunchy bark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, Paul did that last time. Thing is (as in my post) I got side tracked yesterday with some issues and wasn't able to do that. Had to pull them because they were DONE. And timing didn't allow me put them back on to harden up the bark.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm a assuming that giving the brisket a trip in the oven at 400 degrees or thereabouts making sure internal doesn't go over 140 should do it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. It can be tricky, depending on what you are using for reheating. Starting with the brisket cold helps immensely. You can, alternatively, reheat gently, then quickly broil to texture the bark, being very careful not to go too long - i.e., removing just before it looks like you want it, so as not to burn. (It can be pretty quick.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Kevin thanks. This what I've been thinking as well. I will be most likely doing this in an electric oven. Figure I'll bring the temp probe. These things are quite tender now. Maybe a slow warm up on a bare rack with oven set to say 250deg or so then hit them with the broiler at the end.

Was thinking also about vac sealing, doing my usual warm up to temp/140, then give them some time at 500 deg or broil briefly. Watching the the whole time to not burn the sugars.

Will decide in the next couple hours before I hit the road.

BTW - these things came out nice and tender, evenly done. I did foil the thinner ends during the cook which was a good move. These were both "first cut" flats with the point removed. Both about 8-10 lbs. Nice and thick.

Cooked at about 300-325 along with some ribs same as last time. First time with this rub, sounded, smelled good. We'll see how we like it.
 
Ray, sounds like you got a plan. I've had the same dilemma before, but I really like Kevin's idea of putting them cold in a low oven and finishing with the broiler. Let us know how it turns out.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r benash:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm a assuming that giving the brisket a trip in the oven at 400 degrees or thereabouts making sure internal doesn't go over 140 should do it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. It can be tricky, depending on what you are using for reheating. Starting with the brisket cold helps immensely. You can, alternatively, reheat gently, then quickly broil to texture the bark, being very careful not to go too long - i.e., removing just before it looks like you want it, so as not to burn. (It can be pretty quick.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Kevin thanks. This what I've been thinking as well. I will be most likely doing this in an electric oven. Figure I'll bring the temp probe. These things are quite tender now. Maybe a slow warm up on a bare rack with oven set to say 250deg or so then hit them with the broiler at the end.

Was thinking also about vac sealing, doing my usual warm up to temp/140, then give them some time at 500 deg or broil briefly. Watching the the whole time to not burn the sugars.

Will decide in the next couple hours before I hit the road.

BTW - these things came out nice and tender, evenly done. I did foil the thinner ends during the cook which was a good move. These were both "first cut" flats with the point removed. Both about 8-10 lbs. Nice and thick.

Cooked at about 300-325 along with some ribs same as last time. First time with this rub, sounded, smelled good. We'll see how we like it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So tweaked it, on my way out the door. I did manage to split the two across the grain, make four packs and vac sealed them. Let's see how it goes. I typically bring along my own key cookware will need to remember to bring the big pot. Plan will be to bring up to 140 degrees in the water/vbag then broil OR simply whack at 500 degrees watching the whole time. I'm frankly thinking that now that I have them bagged I will probably defer to the 500deg vs broiler.

Have extra rub with me etc.

Thanks for all the input.
 
Watch. Go shorter than you think. Remove. Check. (This alows for some cooling too.) Return briefly if necessary then repeat again if necessary. Remember the sugar caramelization and burn points.
 
I have so much to learn! When I heard the term 'bark' I thought this referred to the coloration that smoke causes near the surface of the meat. I had no idea it referred to the texture instead (or is that as well?)

The last brisket I smoked came off after it hit 176° F. I did not foil it but had mopped several times early in the smoke. At that temperature the beef was still firm but not dry and was very tasty.

On my first brisket, some of the edges had become dehydrated and as a result, hard. Is this what is referred to as bark or should I be thinking of something else entirely?

At present I've been doing my briskets low and slow until they hit the desired temperature. I'm wondering what I might be missing out on by not using one of the more elaborate procedures.

thanks,
hank
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Watch. Go shorter than you think. Remove. Check. (This alows for some cooling too.) Return briefly if necessary then repeat again if necessary. Remember the sugar caramelization and burn points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, will be careful with that. At least I can bring the piece/s up slowly in the vac bag/water first and just concentrate on hardening the bark abit, making it a two step process actually simplifies it for me. Good thing I sealed as won't be serving until Sunday now.

Thanks for the tips folks.
 
Hi Hank - the bark on brisket, pork butt, ribs is the crispy/carmelized surface of the meat, rub, and liquids that forms during the smoking process. The meat isn't hard all the way through just 1/8th inch of the surface or thereabouts.

I would cook your brisket until you can push a skewer or probe through the brisket and not feel much resistance (like room temp butter). That what I've learned to do with pork butt, ribs and brisket. That's a better check of done than temperature.
 
NP - tip is not really mine. Learned it from folks like Kevin Kruger, Bryan Stephens, Chris A. over the years on this site.
 
So Kevin - since I have the computer with me and can dive in and out from the activities. Here's what I think. I might want to do the high oven temp instead of using the broiler.

Mainly because my goal is not so much to crisp the surface as much as dry it out overall.

I have a good bit of material/bases with me to play with providing a couple 2 or 3 sauces, jux on the side which I'll have some fun with today as folks are getting, well - in the mood as one would say
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I'm really not trying to recreate the bark so much as dry it out to a fairly hardened state. I think that a 500 degree oven will get me there easier with a close watch.

Broiling is a super fast method in this context, and I'm thinking the contents of this rub is one that won't take well to focused high heat that that method would impose. The coffee and other ingredients already has a dark, chocolate, sweet note, a little bitter is there as I tasted last night before vac sealing. Don't want to push that flavor further or risk a burnt taste.

So I'm going to shoot with pre heating in hot water bath in the bag, remove and place on the rack in a 500 (or highest I can get) to have a more even/all around heat that will dry out the rub.

I'll be playing with sauces tonight.
 
That can work. You still need to be careful. Though not as focused as the broiler, once evaporation at the surface occurs sufficiently you will run the risk of deepening color or even burning - so keep an eye out and a finger ready (to test the surface as it heats, feel it).

If necessary, remove the entire roast, allow to sit several minutes to cool some, return to the oven. You can build the texture this way, avoiding over-coloring or burning.
 
I always hate when someone asks for help to troubleshoot and never gets back AFA final result. So to close the loop here's what I did.

I was on as cook on Sunday. The ask was really complex in that the meal had too much there. In that I mean folks were now in party mode wanted a lot (as far as what other folks brought). We had clam chowder. My SIL brought the base and I finished it out. Understand that I helped dig the clams on a previous vacation a few weeks ago. So that finish if you well was also owned by me. It worked out great, and even have some fine leftovers now.

In Jersey so everyone wanted fresh corn. Did that too.

We had a new pasta salad everyone has been trying. Assembled that as well. It's actually pretty awesome especially made with fresh garden tomatoes, basil, etc. Done

Everyone wanted the brisket. But everyone also wanted to hit the bars at 8pm, do a get together over a quizzos comp.

The entre if you will was last. What I did was spend the time on the sauces as I figured that would define the plate in the end in this case as I new the brisket was off the hook tender and had great notes. The challenge was that the rub was wet at the pull.

Warmed up one whole brisket in halves. They were vac sealed which is always a great fail safe IMHO. No big pots and I didn't bring mine.

Warmed the halves in the best pot which was vacated after I worked the clam chowder above.

Heated to 140 degrees or so. Perfect

By that time folks were wondering if we were going to hit the quizzo comp in time
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I made a last minute judgement call after tasting as I new I had the sauces nailed.

I skipped the whole reheat, broil. I removed the soft rub, gave up the concept of crisping the rub and the final carmelization, which I think would have been optimum.

The meat was flavored so well, in this case didn't really need the finish on the rub. The aux jux and the cherry BBQ was a smash hit.

Flexibility won out. In the end this recipe as referred by LarryR remains on the list.

I'm sure the whole thing is much better finished to spec. In my case the adjustments worked fine.

HH brisket though overall has worked great for me for my very first and now second cook with the cut.

Thanks for all the inupt and help along the way. But frankly I'm sold on HH brisket. Well 300 degrees or highter anyway.

Oh, and by the way the ribs I cooked along with the HH brisket - Excellent.
 
I am glad the whole thing worked out well for you.

Me, I admit I do not get the fascination of crisp bark on brisket. Flavorful, yes; thick and/or crisp, no. If the rub ingredients are textured right the rub will have texture even if not crisp. I can't describe it exactly but it is textured, not soft/mushy but not crisp or hard, something I would not care for on brisket. Dunno. That's me.
 
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