Chris,
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
Not for the moderator...he likes strokes! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Okay, I will give you, and the other participants of this thread, one - I understand and accept your reasons and distinction between brining for flavor and moisture and brining for the purpose of curing (preserving) meats. There, like that one? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
But...(you just knew it was coming, didn't you?)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Again, it's my understanding that a flavor brine does not have a high enough salt concentration to fight bacteria in meat in a meanful way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If brine is not concentrated enough to work, what?s the purpose of using it? If it is strong enough to work, the only variable left is the amount of time the food is exposed to it. Granted, a few hours are not enough to completely cure a turkey (or, anything else, for that matter). Curing is simply the process of conditioning meat in such a way as to slow down or stop the growth of bacteria. The degree to which this is done is variable, depending on brine concentration, meat thickness, and amount of time the meat remains in the brine.
Using the
U of I Web site that I referred to earlier for reference, here are the numbers:
Brines have a specific gravity or salimeter reading from 40 to 100 degrees
Salt weighs 10.5 oz per cup
Water weighs 8.3 lb (132.8 oz) per gallon
A 100 degree pickle has a specific gravity of 1.208 and is a solution of 26.3%
A 50 degree pickle has a specific gravity of 1.01 and is a solution of 13.15%
For a 1 cup salt + 1 gallon water brine:
132.8 + 10.5 = 143.3 oz
(10.5 / 143.30) X 100 = 7.32% salt solution
(7.32 / 26.3) X 100 = 27.83 degrees
For a 2 cup salt + 1 gallon water brine:
132.8 + 21 = 153.8 oz
(21 / 153.8) X 100 = 13.65% salt solution
(13.65% / 26.3) X 100 = 51.9 degrees
Some use the measure of being able to float an egg. Well, since an egg typically has a specific gravity of between 1.07 and 1.09, you can clearly see that it is well within the range specified for brines used for curing.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> A quote earlier in this thread said, "Microbial testing also showed
slightly lower populations of various bacteria in the brined chicken than in the others." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>While this may very well be true, another consideration is the bacteria?s rate of growth. I contend that the rate of bacterial growth in a properly ?brined for flavor and moisture? turkey must be slower than in one that has not been brined. The extent to which it is slowed depends, of course, on the strength of the brine and the time the turkey remains in it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> My main concern here is that I don't want to give people the impression that flavor brining has a role in preserving meat. For that you need a much higher salt concentration or you should use Prague Powder #1 (sodium nitrite), Morton's Tender Quick, etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed. And, everyone should understand that a day or two is not enough time to completely cure (preserve) a turkey. So, if a small amount of flavor brining is not enough to slow down the growth of bacteria, why would someone cook it slow enough for it to remain in the danger zone for more than two hours?
For some good, basic information about curing, visit the
U of I Meat Curing Web Page and/or do a Web search for additional information on meat curing and brines.
Besides not caring for the meat texture, skin, and flavor of a brined turkey, my major concern is having the turkey remain within the danger zone of 40?F to 140? as long as it would be if cooked at the lower temperatures that some are using (~ 250?F). Perhaps an overnight exposure to a 40 degree brine is enough, I don?t know. Perhaps one that has been ?flavor enhanced? injected by the processor is enough, I don?t know that, either. So, for my family and me, I will not do so.
