Boneless shoulder takes longer than bone in?


 
S

Scott Dallal

TVWBB Member
My theory is the bone helps cook the meat from the inside out.

My wife picked up a Costco package without realizing it was boneless. They were two to a pack (shoulder). I cooked one and was very good good. But noticed it took a lot longer than a bone in. By several hours. I'm guessing the bone heats up and helps cook from the inside out? Also being cut and having to sort of tie up I bet there is more air pockets that act as insulation on the inside???

BTW, I use those cooking rubber bands to sort of put the thing back together. I make it firm but not overly tight. I like them a lot better than twine.

I'm cooking two more now for my dad who is having a party tonight. Again, I'm surprised how long they are taking, but should bet good.
 
Bone conducts heat. Also, if you compact your roast to tie (or band) it, it can affect cooking time.
 
Regarding the bone conducting heat, suppose you're cooking a couple typical butts on a wsm rack. Is it better to turn the bone toward the OUTSIDE of the grate, or toward the INSIDE of the grate...or just however they'll fit, as it doesn't matter?

I believe I turn the bone out most every time, but I was just wondering if it made a difference as to more even cooking, either way.
 
Well ...

Unless they're from the same pig, no two butts/shoulders are alike. Fat ratio, muscle density, etc can affect cook time. There's always that odd butt that either cooks faster or slower than most others. For an 8lb butt, just a 15 min/lb variance will make a 2 hour total difference.

As already noted, tying can affect cook time.

BTW, when I do boneless, I just roll them up with no twine. Since I don't move them during the cook, it just sorta all collapes onto itself and fuses together.

As for placement with the bone facing in or out, I'd think upper or lower grate would make more of a difference.
 
Originally posted by TravisH:
Well...As for placement with the bone facing in or out, I'd think upper or lower grate would make more of a difference.
Click to expand...

I usually cook three or more, so I usually use both grates. I was just wondering if it could be advantageous, either way.

The only time I noticed unevenness in a butt cook was when I leaned three up against a beer can chicken rack on one grate, for five total. Those three didn't cook near as even as normally. I've read where folks said they had no problems like that, though.
 
Besides taking out the bone some fat is often trimmed. This leads to denser meat that takes longer per pound
Main thing,as had already been mentioned, is that every piece of meat is different. Cook based on meat temperature not just the clock

Mike
 
I rail against this notion all the time: Every piece of meat is not different. If you are cooking commercial pork, they are so very not different. Cooks (both the people and the procedures/process) might be different; the meat varies very little. Fat ratios and muscle densities vary little. That was and is the point of wholesale hybridization. To standardize. Unfortunately, it worked very well.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
I rail against this notion all the time: Every piece of meat is not different. If you are cooking commercial pork, they are so very not different. Cooks (both the people and the procedures/process) might be different; the meat varies very little. Fat ratios and muscle densities vary little. That was and is the point of wholesale hybridization. To standardize. Unfortunately, it worked very well.
Click to expand...
Strange ...

Yet, visible differences can be seen in marbling and fat cap even though the sale weights are nearly identical.

Yet, multiple butts cooked side-by-side can finish as much as hours apart.

Yet, when pulling butts that did finish together, some can have more internal fat remaining than others.

????
 
In order:

Visible differences don't amount to anything that leads to widely disparate finishing times.

In many dozens of multiple butt cooks in WSMs and other cookers over many years I have never had this occur.

Doesn't matter. That's not indicative of anything germane.



Were 'every piece of meat different' as is claimed on numerous barbecue boards - but not, importantly, on roasting or professionally-oriented sites, nor in cookbooks, except for some barbecue books written by so-called 'masters' - one would expect wildly disparate cook times during 'regular' oven roasting. In many more dozens upon dozens of oven-roasted multiple butt cooks over decades, in numerous circumstances, I have never seen this occur, nor do I know of other chefs, colleagues, or avid cooks of my acquaintance that have experienced this. Were 'every piece of meat is different' a factual statement, hundreds of cookbook authors, hundreds of CIA and other chef school instructors, multiple TV-chefs, etc., would be utterly remiss for never mentioning it. It is another barbecue myth.

After allowing for the differences in mass (dimensions) between butts, if grossly disparate finish times occur, the answer is that the cooker did not evenly cook. That lid temp, grate temp, or both, did not show swings or spikes during a cook does not mean the cooker cooked evenly. Wind from one side or another, using one vent to control air intake, differences within the ring of amounts of lit, not evenly spreading lit on unlit for a Minion start, differences in smokewood size or placement, or any combination of these, can lead to uneven cooking within the cooker. Using a windscreen and not doing any of the other things noted minimizes cooking unevenness. Though I rarely bother (unless I'm cooking on an untuned offset), using the same technique one employs when cooking multiple roasts, casseroles, trays of cookies in a standard home oven to ensure even cooking helps too: rotation.
 
I have to agree with K on this one. I cook at 250-300 the majority of the time and never have a butt go over 12-14hrs. I also don't have one go more than the other when on the same rack, only see this if using the bottom at the same time. Then it is in a different location and it then is at different temps. I do know for a fact on the last leg of most long cooks the temp can be different on one side or the other on any giving grate because the fire can and will usually be hotter on one side than the other. I rotate the middle section 2-4 times per cook at 90-180 degrees to even the temp out. This is also why vent temp is more accurate in a sense. If you have the factory therm and you turn the lid 180 deg on the latter half of a cook you can sometimes see an immediate diff in temp.
 
FYI...follow up...

The 2 boneless I cooked turned out great. I went a full 16 hours with the internal temp reaching 195 at 14 hours. I left on the smoker another two hours with the smoker holding right at 225 at the lid.

I did a basic rub from Smoke and Spice applied after a thin coating of yellow mustard.

After 16 hours I wrapped in foil and put in cooler for about an hour than pulled. The exterior of the meat was still firm and nice burnt ends. The interior was very tender. A good smoke ring (used 4 fist sized and 4 small Apple wood chunks). I also used a full ring of Original and the Minon method. It snowed all day and I believe due to the lower temps, I had to add about 25 coals at the 13 hour coal. I might have made it, but added to be safe.

I used a full pan of water and never had to add any.

I don't like the boneless ONLY because of the need to band/tie up. The taste was very good and don't know that I could tell a taste difference.
 
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