Barbecuing Woes, and my Manhood


 
G

G Force

TVWBB Member
As I post this my wife and daughter are off to pick up take out food from a local italian restaurant. Today was another botched attempt by a guy from Jersey to produce some decent pork butt.

Two years ago a friend told me how well he did with his Weber Kettle, on smoking. So for X-Mas I got the Kettle and tried to do some smoking. Results super lousy!

In subsequent conversations I discovered that he had a “Bullet” not a Kettle. Some online research showed that some folks had decent results with ribs and the like on the Kettle, but that the Bullet was the go to Smoker. I figured that before telling my kids that they bought Daddy the wrong grill for X-Mas that I would try and at least get some decent results before spending a couple hundred bucks more and getting the “Bullet”.

Right now I am so frustrated that I am thinking of giving up fire and going electric with a thermostat, and I am about 10 minutes from kicking a 9lb pork butt all around the backyard.

My problems are with Temperature Control. Today I had spikes over 400F degrees, and put the fire out when it went to 70F. As we speak it is 179F and I can’t get it higher. Outside Temp is a nice 50F.

I HAVE READ THE FAQ’s.

Does everyone seem to have so much control over the TEMP because they have a WSM and I don’t? The design is so close together, really there is just a height and volume difference. Air in and air out look exactly the same. Should I just take this Kettle and smash it with a sledge hammer? That is after I kick the pork butt around the backyard?

Some things I am doing:

I use “Rancher Original Hardwood Briquettes”

Today I put about 15 or so on the grate, to the side in their little cubby spot. I lit about 6 in a chimney. When Grey all over I put them on top of the pile. It was cold outside so I filled the water drip pan under the meat with hot water. Within 30 minutes the temperature was over the upper limit of my Polder (400F I think). Top open half way, bottom just cracked. So I close top and bottom, take shower, go outside and fire is out.

Start fire, go buy another temperature probe, come home temps over 300 (bottom closed). I put a big slug of wet chips on the coals, temp came down.

I don’t know what I did, hung out for an hour, needed more charcoals. Opened grill, put coals, a dozen or so, on top of gray coals, put aluminum foil package of wet chips on top. For over an hour temp will not go past 180, that is with bottom closed, top half open.

So if anyone has any suggestions, I am all ears. Don’t worry about being polite, I am from Jersey!
 
There are several reasons why temp in the WSM is easier to control, and especially easier to keep *down*. 1. The WSM has a water pan which acts as a heat sink; 2. The WSM has dampers that fit much tighter and control airflow better; and 3. the food is farther away from the fire.

You can still produce good Q on a kettle. I've done it lots of times. You just need a heat sink of some type (frozen brick, pan of water, whatever) and the ability to use the amount of charcoal necessary AND manage the fire well. In the end, it's a lot easier (and you have more cooking capacity) with the WSM. Doing Q in the kettle is kind of like chopping onions with a butter knife. Can it be done? Sure. Is it a total PITA? Yep.
 
G.

Don't get discouraged. You have not had a good start to smoking and BBQing sounds like. It is alot easier than what you have went through so far.

The kettle and WSM are 2 different cookers and cook alot different and both takes a few cooks to learn fire and heat control. I can assure you once you learn how easy it is you will wonder why it was so hard at first.

The kettle does run alot hotter and takes more work to get a steady temp but can be done although it does run hotter than the WSM. I use the kettle for grilling and searing steaks, burgers, chicken etc. smaller foods that cook quicker. A butt can be done on the kettle and you have done everything right so far. The amount of charcoal that you use to get started determines what temp you will cook at. For a butt you started about right with the charcoal maybe a few less lit. With this amount the kettle will jump to 300 - 400 degrees quickly and stay there for a while with proper vent controls. I would leave the top vent open and adjust the bottom vent to about 25% open. If you close it completly you will put the fire out as you found out. It should settle in around 300 -350 and just leave it alone until it starts to drop then add a few more lit coals at a time, to many and it will jump in temp to much. You done fine for the first time, it just takes a few tries. You made to many changes to quickly. Once you get the coals going and out the meat on adjust vents to almost closed and it should settle in at a lower temp and continue cooking but it may take a hour or 2 for the temps to come down where you want it. I love my kettle and use it for everything all the time but it takes a few tries to learn how it works. My therm on my kettle has pegged out at 600 degrees many times but it will come down without going complety out with proper vent controls. I dont think I have ever closed the top vent any unless I am killing the fire and saving the unused coals.

Look on here for chats about high heat cooks as several people have done butts and briskets in the 300 range and done fine.

The WSM is a better cooker for lower temp cooks and easier to maintain lower temps and I use it more for bigger chunks of meat.

Hang in there and try again it will get better. Don't hesitate asking more questions either, many people here are more than willing to help.
 
Let's net it out.

You can do long cooks on the kettle, but it will be a little harder to do (no auto mode). The heat and smoke has to tavel horizontally in a very small space. You will need to know how to "compartmentalize" the heat to one side of this small space as the meat is on the other side. You will need to use low temp fuel like briquettes (AKA Kingsford) until you understand how to control that environment. Lots of people do it and it's not all that hard, just different.

With the WSM everything is going vertical. It's a smoker not a grill. So when you BBQ (which equals food cooked over coals or indirect heat) it is more optimized for that purpose.

Get both. Kettle is best for grilling and intermdediate indirect cooking. Harder to make this a one purpose device but it can be done. All about the learning curve.

Best of both worlds is to have both. So your daughter DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE. She bought you a good grill. You still need a good smoker.

Your wife needs to buy you a smoker as your next gift. In the meantime you will need to learn how to use the Kettle to perform as a smoker. It can be done, lots of people have done it. Just takes time.

But then the best of both worlds is to have a charcoal grill as well as a smoker. That's heaven!!

Beleive me I know the frustrations regarding high temp spikes in the kettle. I know how to control that now. Your will too if you give it time
 
David L. has had very good success going low and slow in his kettles using fire bricks, I did a quick search and found a couple of threads he's participated in here's ONE
 
you shouldn't close the bottom vent completely. it will eventually cause your coals to go out even with the top open. leave the bottom open a crack. and adjust the top vent to maintain temp. as long as you don't close the top vent fully you should be fine. a toothpick width opening on the top vent will still let the smoke escape. when the top vent is open fully and the temp starts to drop you start opening the bottom a little at a time to maintain the temp. i found on a kettle that you can't expect constant temps. and with pork butt a spike of 50-75 degrees higher than your target temp for an hour or so won't hurt. pork butts are very forgiving. just work the vents and pull the butt off when it gets to 200* internal temp,wrap it in foil for an hour and then enjoy some pulled pork samich's
 
Phil, Randy, Ray, Larry and Tony-

Thanks for the input, suggestions and reasurances. With all the temp swings up and down I missed dinner by a few hours, but you were right about one big thing. A pork butt is pretty forgiving. I finished it for 3 hours in the oven. My wife has a covered pan that she cooks hams in. The floor is raised so you can pour liquid in. I finished it in there until 190 degrees.

Through all of the temperature spikes the piece of meat actually survived quite well. It fell apart nicely, it was very moist, and had a nicely developed smoke ring. I did not see any problems with the temperature spikes, except that it missed dinner by a few hours. Next time I start earlier, and use the cooler technique that I learned about here.

I own a Weber Genesis Platinum, and there are times that is appropriate, and I have enjoyed the Kettle for those times you want to cook over fire (and enjoy toasted marshmallows after). I also have an electric "Bullet Type" stainless smoker with a variac for precise temperature control. I do some awesome Salmon in that. But it looks like if I want to use fire, and I want the best temp control then it is time for a WSM. Good thing my Birthday is in three weeks!

Thanks for all the suggestions. As you are probably aware if you want good Q in Jersey, you got to make it yer-self.

George
 
G-Force,

Great advice has been given. You seem to be like the rest of us with many cookers, smokers, etc. I have I think seven. My favorites are the WSM for BBQ (butts, brisket, ribs) and the Weber Kettle for chicken and steaks. I also use the WSM for ABTs.

Let us know what you get for your birthday...the WSM hopefully.
 
One thing I read many times but was too stubborn to believe about learning to BBQ was that you need to start with the smaller, shorter cooks first. Prof. Wiviott was one such expert on the WSM, but I think it applies to any cooker. Start with chicken and ribs, learn to master the heat control with those, then move on the longer more challenging cooks.
 
Here is one thing to consider..when I got my new kettle the lid was slightly warped so it didnt seal good. Thus I had too much ventilation making coals hot..just one thing to consider
 
CRAIG L.,

What's ABTs??

I'm a genealogist - and 'abt' means "about" to me. Somehow, that doesn't excite me:

"Yo momma, call up Uncle Ralph, we be havin' smoked abouts tonight" just doesn't ring my bell.
icon_wink.gif
 
Originally posted by Bob Hendry:
CRAIG L.,

What's ABTs??
Click to expand...

Atomic Buffalo Turds

Jalapeño peppers stuffed with something and wrapped in bacon. You can look them up on the cooking tab.
 
My wife and I did pork butt on 3 separate occasions on our CharBroil grill before we bought a smoker. The smoker is absolutely a no-brainer after you've smoked on a grill. We didn't know about specific temperatures, venting, the amount of wood to use, nothin'. We tried to keep a medium charcoal fire with a handful of wet hickory chips over it the whole time we had the pork butt on the opposite side of the grill sitting over a pie pan full of water. A medium fire on a grill is one you can hold your hand about 5 inches above your cooking surface for around 4 seconds (hot is 2 secs or less, cold is up to 10 secs). We smoked the first one for about 10 hours using those guidelines, and when it got to an internal temp of about 188, we pulled it off, pulled it, and served it. It was better than any restaurant Q I'd ever had.

I said all that to say this: don't get discouraged, because you can smoke on a grill. It just takes more work and more diligence with your charcoal management. The resources here on this board are literally priceless. No amount of reading and studying will ever beat experience. BBQ has been around longer than books, and the only way to get it right is to do it over and over. Buying a WSM helps too.

p.s. There is no "right" way to do BBQ. The best way is the best way that works for you.
 
Originally posted by Jerry N.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob Hendry:
CRAIG L.,

What's ABTs??
Click to expand...

Atomic Buffalo Turds

Jalapeño peppers stuffed with something and wrapped in bacon. You can look them up on the cooking tab. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here are some pictures.

http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmp60755zw.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmp96794nl.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmp27840ja.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2044small6ou.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2051small8lw.jpg
 
not to disagree with Tony C but ive done a couple smokes on several different kettles and have always closed the bottom vents completely and there was still enough air leakage to keep the coals going...as for the top vents, everythign ive read on this board has always said the top vents are to remain 100% open...?

re: Gs comments, I did 3 racks of ribs on a kettle (water pan on charcoal grate w/ mini-minion method on one side) over NYE for 6 hrs or so and the temps were pretty stable 250-275 throughout the entire cook.. not too much monkeying with the lower vents was necessary.. so it can be done on the kettle....hope this helps
 
Evan, that very well be true on newer one-touch models. i haven't tried a slow and low on my new OTG yet. i know my bar-b-kettle daisy wheels are pretty tight and with them all 3 closed my coals will go out in an hour or less. i too always try to control the heat with the bottom vent, but if i have it mostly closed and the temp is still too hot and/or rising i will start to close down the top vent. i feel that as long as it is open enough for smoke to escape things will be fine. and if i recall correctly, weber's own jamie purviance tells people to leave the bottom 100% open and adjust the top vent for temp control. i don't think that is the most efficient way to use fuel so i try to keep my temp stable with the top open and bottom cracked.

i am kicking around the idea of doing a brisket flat slow and low on the OTG sunday while i am smoking a turkey and 3 turkey breasts on the WSM for my grandmother's meals on wheels crew to take to needy handicap folks next wednsday.
 
G,I had the exact same thing happen to me. I was ready to thow the grill in the trash. If you intend to keep the grill, start with something a little cheaper like chicken. That way you can learn about temperature control without breaking the bank. It will get easier. Your daughter did good. The Weber kettle is the best you can get but as the others said it's better to have both. I got tired of babysitting the kettle and got a WSM also. You can't believe the difference in the two. The WSM is set it and forget it for hours at a time.
 
DON'T hurt the kid's feelings about getting you the wrong cooker. Just politely tell them that smoking is apparently not for you, but you sure do need a tall Weber "steak cooker with a juice pan in the middle" -- and order yourself a WSM. Then tell them you can't believe what great barbecue you can make on that "steak cooker".
icon_wink.gif
 
well, i sure have a rather easy time of smoking on my kettle. course i did huge amounts of reading and regular cooks on the kettle first.
i'm confused also about weber stating that the bottoms should be open and the top is to control the heat. most books state the opposite. i use the bottoms for control and the top is always open and have had no problems. mostly you need to do things in steps and then wait a bit before things change. i also know that you did not use enough coals in yer original setup. have patience. also remember this is the fun part of cooking. the experimenting and learning. most long time cooks will tell you it never ends.
 
I got my first kettle almost 2 years ago. I don't use it much as I have always had a gasser and still do. Anyhow I have used the kettle several for smoking and just am not happy with the results. Mainly having the same problems as you. Butts can take a higher heat and a lot of people preffer to do them that way. For me the meat meat isn't bark it is burnt from being so close to the heat. If it were me I would pick up a picnic instead of a butt and leave the skin on. I would cook skin side down and have it situated so that skin is toward the fire, protecting the meat.

What I do smoke on the kettle a lot is a meatloaf. Mmmmmmm meatloaf. I pretty much go by Chris's recipe in the cooking section. I usually just use 3# of hamburger and will usually add some chili powder or cayenne. A little something to give it some kick. I also add about a half an medium onion, chopped up rather finely. The onion add moisture. I have had a couple of times that I got the internal quite a bit higher than I wanted. You didn't know it when you ate though. Only needs one or two small chunks of wood. I usually run at 325° and seems like it usually takes 80 minutes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top