A few questions for first rehab (already broke the lid off!)

[MikeW2]

Hi all,

Finally gave up on my cheap Char-Broil and after finding you guys decided to take the plunge on rehabbing an old Weber. Found a 2004 Genesis Silver C on Craigslist with a cover and one full tank and one empty for $100. The condition looked pretty good so I pulled the trigger... and then, while loading it into my car, the lid flew open and broke clean off. I dare say that I may have set a record for fastest first-time mistake on this forum.

Other than that, overall it seems to be in good shape and seems to work. The flavorizer bars are shot so I'm getting a quote from Dave Santana; might get new grates from him as well. There are a couple of plugged burner holes so I'll clean those out. A few questions for the experts though:

Question 1. What's the best way to fix the lid situation? I couldn't find anywhere that sells just the end caps. I found someone local who flips Webers and they're willing to sell me a Silver C or Gold C lid for $30 (I get to pick). That's what I'm leaning toward (I'll compare my existing lid to confirm fit first), but I could also look up a local welder, though I worry about the durability of that over years of opening/closing the lid.


This is what the hinge looks like right now. Oops.

Question 2. I checked the common rust area on the frame nearest the firebox and it looks pretty good, just a little bit of exterior rust and paint wear. What's the best way to remove that rust/paint, and what should I put on it after it's removed? Just a high heat paint or anything else? Similar question, there's some bubbling on the side arm of the frame under the side table; should I do the same thing there or something else (e.g., different paint)?


Frame near firebox.

Frame under side table 1 of 2.

Frame under side table 2 of 2.

Question 3. The igniter seemed to work fine, but the gas collection box / igniter chamber was rusting away. When I pulled it out and looked for parts online, I realized that my grill only has a ground wire to the firebox, not to the side burner. So it has a black wire to the firebox and one to the side burner, but the white wire only goes to the firebox. Would it be an issue if I only get a replacement igniter chamber and leave the single white wire, or should I get a whole new igniter kit so I can ground the side burner too? It seems I could buy the double ground wire, but I don't have the spade clip that I would need.

Note that I did test the igniter before I bought it and it did light up the side burner, so maybe the ground wire is unnecessary? I don't know anything electrical, so that might cause a meltdown for all I know.

Ignition box with black wire only:

Igniter Chamber W/black Wire 87898 - OEM Weber - eReplacementParts.com

Buy the official Weber Igniter Chamber W/black Wire 87898 replacement - Use our model diagrams, repair help, and video tutorials to help get the job done.

www.ereplacementparts.com

Double ground wire, no spade clip:

Dual Ground Wire For Side Burn 87896 - OEM Weber - eReplacementParts.com

Buy the official Weber Dual Ground Wire For Side Burn 87896 replacement - Use our model diagrams, repair help, and video tutorials to help get the job done.

www.ereplacementparts.com

Full igniter kit:

Igniter, Dual Wire 905 - OEM Weber - eReplacementParts.com

Buy the official Weber Igniter, Dual Wire 905 replacement - Use our model diagrams, repair help, and video tutorials to help get the job done.

www.ereplacementparts.com

Diagram showing how the side burner is supposed to look is on the bottom left of the second page here (mine currently doesn't have the spade clip or the ground wire):

https://www.grillparts.com/images/products-grill-parts/grill-parts-905.pdf

Question 4. I took off the side table and looked down the frame and found a lot of rust, but it doesn't seem to be doing much structurally, at least not yet. The outside of the frame bar looks solid. Anything I can/should do here?


Inside view.

Outside view.

Question 5. The burner tubes look decent and seem to give a good flame; how do I know if they need to be replaced?


Burner tube. Lots of firebox cleaning to do! Most if not all of that rust was from the dying flavorizer bars.

Thank you in advance for the help!

 

[Jon Tofte]

Hi Mike! Welcome aboard!

I can't answer all your questions, but some others here I am sure will also weigh in.

1) Your end caps are toast. Don't even think about welding in my opinion. Assuming both breaks are on the end caps and your firebox is OK, you need to go the route you hinted at. Find someone who can set you up with replacement end caps or maybe a whole different hood. You can list a thread on our "Buy, Sell, Trade" section and see what you come up with.

2 & 4) Nothing you showed looked like a lost cause to me. I would clean up and sand where you can. The use some rust encapsulator from Eastwood on the inside of those tube frames. They even have a version with a hose extension to get in deep inside the tube. Just be sure to clean your nozzles, etc. VERY WELL. Maybe use acetone for that. This stuff dries to a very hard finish. Unfortunately it will do that to your nozzle as well!

Rust Solutions

Stop rust from damaging your project with Eastwood's line of rust-proofing paint and rust encapsulators for treating, removing or preventing rust

www.eastwood.com

The outside you should be able to clean off the little bit of rust. Then use high heat prime and paint to get a fresh start. Rustoleum or Krylon both have good black semi-gloss extreme high heat paint choices.

5) There is no need to replace burner tubes that are working perfectly. I would suggest wire brushing the exterior and cleaning out the insides with carburetor or brake cleaner.

I am not sure about your dual electric starter situation. Seems like you just need a new collector box. You probably will have to buy the inside igniter part in order to get that.

Last comment. Dave Santana aka "rcplanebuyer" makes the VERY BEST stuff you can buy for grates and flavorizer bars - and some other great stuff as well. However, it would not be fair to omit mention of many very fine (no not the best) options out there for a lot less money. Search here for my "Stainless Rod Throwdown Challenge" where I did an extensive evaluation of various stainless rod grates, including Dave's. Here is one from a company I can recommend. They are 7mm not over 9mm like Dave's and they are not as tightly spaced. However, they are still solid and real non-magnetic stainless steel. $47 vs. $120:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DVM8KFK/?tag=tvwb-20

EDIT: Here is another set. Not as well finished as the Qlimetal above and apparently not 304 stainless but a kind called 403 (not 430). Still, $29.99 it's a pretty hard deal to ignore:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083QPHF5N/?tag=tvwb-20

As far as flavorizer bars, here is an option that has very good quality for less than $50 bucks:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083439TKG/?tag=tvwb-20

Like I said, Dave's are THE BEST. For some people anything less is a deal breaker. I don't agree with that, but if you are OK with spending almost $200 vs less than $100 you won't be at all disappointed with Dave's first class stuff. Those grates will last longer than your grill!

 

[Ed P]

I'm just going to address the electrical issues:

Your ignitor will work without a ground wire, but is more reliable and dependable with a ground. The spark is very high voltage/low amperage and will jump across large gaps, which is why the early models did away with the ground wire on the external burners, but because of the low amperage enough current won't pass through corroded and/or loose terminals to cause ignition.

Your enemy is loose or corroded terminals. A ground wire will provide a better path, but being kept outdoors the true enemy is corrosion.

As for the collector box, they were added after the very early Genesis models (which did not have a collector box) had problems with erratic ignition. I wouldn't replace the ignitor until you start having problems with ignition...those boxes are thin and are constantly in the flames so they don't last very long before corroding.

 

[Ed P]

I put a 2-probe electronic ignitor on my 2-burner outdoor range. It does not have a ground, only 2 "hot" terminals that go out to the 2 probes. Electricity needs 2 poles of different potential to form a complete circuit, or path, so in this case the spark jumps across both probes simultaneously, with the metal frame between the 2 probes acting as a conductor between them. If I disconnect the probes, the spark jumps from one terminal to the other at the ignitor, thus no ground is needed.

 

[LMichaels]

Looking at your photos it looks like it's the fire box that is broken not the end cap. There is no repair other than replacement. First recommendation is get another firebox somehow, You may end up with a donor grill with lots of good usable parts. That being said take inventory at that point and then make decisions of what to buy and what to recondition.
I am also of a mind if this is a grill to "keep" and "drive" daily you cannot go wrong getting yourself the best rather than cheaping out on Amazon stuff. If however you're wanting to "flip" it, then spending the $$$ is not worth it. I am a HUGE advocate of doing business with a guy like Dave rather than going Amazon. Also IMO the pieces of your grill that mean the absolute most are the grates. These are what you "touch" daily. IMO buy cheap and your relation will sour quickly as soon as something falls through or you cannot get results you hoped for.
Not like I have $$$$ to burn but as a small business operator myself I truly appreciate Dave and his craftsmanship and would much rather pay him rather than slave labor in China.

 

[Jon Tofte]

I agree with Larry that whether this a “keep” or a “flip” is an important part of the equation. I have bought many sets of flavorizer bars from Dave both for flips and keeps and one set of his amazing grates definitely for keeping.

 

[Bruce]

Larry: It looks to me like that is the end cap that is broken. $30 for a new lid and end caps is a good deal IMO unless you can find a donor grill to grab one off of for free.

I agree, if it is going to be a personal grill that you will use and have for a long time, get the premium grates and flavorizer bars from RCPlanebuyer. But if budget is an issue, don't hesitate to explore some of the options in the next step down. You can save some serious money and still get very good parts.

 

[MikeW2]

Thank you all for the tips!

It is for sure the end cap that is broken, so I'll go ahead and get that replacement lid and I should be good to go there.

On going with Dave S or not, hopefully this grill will be a keeper long term, but I think it a lot depends on the the interior rusting. Is that rust going to become an issue in a few years, leaving me with a rusted frame and pristine internals? If the frame will last for 5-10+ years, I'm leaning toward going with Dave, otherwise I'll do something cheaper.

On that note, Jon, thanks for the tip on Eastwood. Is this what you're referring to? https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-undercoating-kit-gun-quart-and-aerosol.html

I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on something that costs more than the grill itself, but I'll do it if the consensus says it's worth it. Still a whole lot cheaper than a new Genesis at Home Depot.

Any additional thoughts on that interior rusting would be appreciated!

 

[MikeW2]

Also, what's the best way to sand the outside of the frame before painting? Recommended grit / product? I don't have an angle grinder and haven't used one before, but I do have a harbor freight ~20 mins away.

 

[Bruce]

Mike, the rust looks all surface rust. In fact, I probably would not get too worked up over the rust inside the frame. If you leave it outside in the elements, it might be worth it, but if it is under cover, your frame will easily last another 10 years and longer. The spots of rust on the frame can be taken off with some sanding or better yet a wire brush. I suggest your remove only the rust and paint in the immediate area around the rust. The paint that weber uses is superior to any rattle can paint, so preserving as much of that as possible is beneficial. After sanding the rust spots, some primer is recommended. Then, I would spray paint the entire frame.. I use Rustoleum 2x gloss or Semi Gloss black except in the areas that border the cook box. There I use Rustoleum High Heat Ultra black. You can use that on the end caps as well.

 

[Jon Tofte]

Mike,
Bruce knows his stuff and has a lot more experience than me. The Eastwood product you showed is way over the top. If you wanted to go all out, though, you might get this one:

Eastwood Black Rust Encapsulator - Paint Over Rust

Stop rust in its tracks! Superior UV Resistance and Convenient Spray Aerosol or Brushable Quarts & Gallons

www.eastwood.com

They used to offer a little extension hose for this, but it looks like they don't anymore. Probably clogged up too often. This would only be for the inside of the frame. As Bruce says, it is probably not that big a deal. Clean what you can reach inside and spray with Rustoleum alone would probably be sufficient.

 

[Bruce]

Rustoleum and other companies make RUST REFORMER which is not as good as the Eastwood or POR15 stuff, but it is better than nothing and a lot cheaper and easier to use. It is also great for those places on the frame that show some rust staining but no real rust such as the seams in the frame. Rather than stripping away a bunch of paint, the rust reformer will cover and protect it so you can then paint over it.

 

[Jon Tofte]

That is probably the best compromise. You should be able to find the Rustoleum Rust Reformer at your hardware store and not have to pay shipping. Make sure you shake it up REALLY WELL!

 

[MikeW2]

Perfect, thank you gentlemen. I'll grab a can of rust reformer, high heat ultra, and 2x. Do you think one can of 2x will be enough for the frame? Also what primer do you recommend?

Also, I noticed this rust here; anything I should do with this? (not sure what the part is called)

 

[J Grotz]

Regarding the internal frame rust. I used a long stiff bristle brush and then Eastwood internal frame paint. This paint comes with a 24” long hose and 360 degree nozzle. It was very easy and very messy to apply. However, this paint was not rated for the temps that the grill can achieve. My frame smoked for a good two hours when I fired it up. I have been cooking on it for 8 months with no ill effects.

https://tvwbb.com/threads/genesis-1000-restoration-almost-finished-and-my-grill-is-smokin’.79899/

https://tvwbb.com/threads/genesis-1000-redhead-restoration.80175/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q5HBB48/?tag=tvwb-20

 

[J Grotz]

The rust in your last pic is on the manifold. After you disassemble the grill, that part will be easy to work with. The valves will need to be cleaned and lubed, and you can sand and paint the manifold at that point.

 

[Ed P]

Regarding the internal frame rust. I used a long stiff bristle brush and then Eastwood internal frame paint. This paint comes with a 24” long hose and 360 degree nozzle. It was very easy and very messy to apply. However, this paint was not rated for the temps that the grill can achieve. My frame smoked for a good two hours when I fired it up. I have been cooking on it for 8 months with no ill effects.

I'm curious if it is worth the expense and effort if the paint burns off the first time you use the grill?

There is also a product called Osmo Ospho (45% phosphoric acid, usually available at Ace Hardware) that turns rust (iron oxide) into iron phosphate. This is the basis behind rust converters, to chemically change rust into an inert compound. I have no idea how heat will affect it, and I don't think it does anything to prevent rust from forming.

Just be aware that the area of frame rails that runs close to and parallel to the burners can get very hot, 300F or hotter.

 

[MikeW2]

Regarding the internal frame rust. I used a long stiff bristle brush and then Eastwood internal frame paint. This paint comes with a 24” long hose and 360 degree nozzle. It was very easy and very messy to apply. However, this paint was not rated for the temps that the grill can achieve. My frame smoked for a good two hours when I fired it up. I have been cooking on it for 8 months with no ill effects.

https://tvwbb.com/threads/genesis-1000-restoration-almost-finished-and-my-grill-is-smokin’.79899/

https://tvwbb.com/threads/genesis-1000-redhead-restoration.80175/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q5HBB48/?tag=tvwb-20

Thanks J! Exactly what I was hoping for.

After reading your posts and poking around, I think I can use either this or this to scrape out the inside. Then it looks like Eastwood has a high-temp solution that might not have the smoking issue you faced. Do you think that's worth a try? I'd probably pick up some of their prep solution as well.

 

[LMichaels]

Really as rust goes on the old Genesis grills the biggest area of concern is the side rail by the fire box and the reason it rusts is two dissimilar metals causing galvanic corrosion. If you put an inert metal washer in between the rail and the aluminum one issue is resolved. Then use stainless bolt and nut and voila another part of the issue solved. Really no need to put rustproofer in there because with the heat moisture will not really collect and be an issue anyway.

 

[Rick W]

Regarding the internal frame rust. I used a long stiff bristle brush and then Eastwood internal frame paint. This paint comes with a 24” long hose and 360 degree nozzle. It was very easy and very messy to apply. However, this paint was not rated for the temps that the grill can achieve. My frame smoked for a good two hours when I fired it up. I have been cooking on it for 8 months with no ill effects.

https://tvwbb.com/threads/genesis-1000-restoration-almost-finished-and-my-grill-is-smokin’.79899/

https://tvwbb.com/threads/genesis-1000-redhead-restoration.80175/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q5HBB48/?tag=tvwb-20

I have treated the inside of the frame in a similar way that JGrotz did. First I would run a wire brush down the inside of the frame pieces to get the easy surface rust cleaned off. Then I would first soak the frame pieces in a citric acid bath for several hours or overnight, and then attach a long wire brush to my drill and wire brush the entire internal length of the frame pieces that I could get access to again. Then I would use the Eastwood internal frame product with the extension hose to coat the frame pieces that would not be in direct contact with the cook box (learning from JGrotz's observations). The frame pieces that are adjacent to the cook box I would spray the inside with Rustoleum high heat flat black using the Eastwood extension hose. Keep in mind, I do this for keeper grills or gift grills to family, I would not make this effort just to turn around and flip a grill.