Your expert opinion on this method pls.....


 
A

A Kokkinos

New member
Hi to all. Apologies for the long post, but my question needs some backgroubd explaining before asking it.

Some background:
I have a fascination with charcuterie since my father was a butcher and he sold a lot of home made sausages, bacon and pork loin (smoked). After going through the site and many other ones on the subject I still have one question on the use of nitrates or cure mix #1.
Since the "ancient" times in my country sausages, bacon and pork loin were preserved / smoked the same way. This is the traditional way that dates back many many years when refrigeration and electricity were not available. Pour a lot of dry red wine in a container. Add salt, ground dry coriander, cumin, ground black pepper and add the bacon (pork belly) or pork loin. Let it in there for about a week or more and then hang it in a room, light a fire in the adjacent room and smoke it using aromatic forest bushes. The fire is never directly below the meat and the smoking lasts for a couple of days. Keep in mind that a pork belly weighs about 6 to 7 pounds. Some artisans instruct of pouring out 1 glass of wine every day and replacing it with a fresh glass of wine, but the reason eludes me. After the smoking was completed, the bacon / loin / sausage was either consumed as is or fried or grilled.
So my question:
The villagers here certainly knew nothing about nitrates, hot smoke and temps. Reading the various sites and 2 books on charcuterie got me really confused as to whether I need the nitrates for this method or not. Will the wine act as the cure? Is the old method unsafe and nowadays that we know more, we should improve upon it? When and for what products should someone use the cure mix?

Please keep in mind that this method is still used today and the meat sells for twice the price of the similar products commercially produced with fake smoke flavor.

Ideas and opinions please?

Thank you
Andreas
 
Welcome Andreas,

Here's my thoughts..
"The villagers here certainly knew nothing about nitrates, hot smoke and temps." Maybe they knew about the smoke and temps through trial and error. You're correct that they most likely didn't know of nitrates/nitrites; but after many years of stumbling along they figured out a low temp helped preserve the meat by removing some of the moisture and raising the internal temp to 140 or more. The 140 probably wasn't important to them either but it worked. The wine may have been for flavor or perhaps the acidity in it does help in the preservation; I've never read anything about that - just guessing. You don't need nitrates to cure meat but you do need salt and the villagers learned that as well. Nitrates, which get converted into nitrites, are just more efficient at preventing bacteria from growing. We use it for that purpose and because it imparts a certain flavor to meats that many find appealing. The old method you describe can and does work for some. Without taking temperature readings you take a risk and why take that risk if you have today's science to help you?

Paul
 
Welcome to tvwbb!

I don't claim to me an expert, but here's my answer, regardless. :cool:

I know that there are many folks around the world who ignore the cardinal rule of meat curing and smoking at low temperatures, that being …..”If it can’t be cured (with nitrate/nitrite), don’t smoke it.”

When smoking at less that 160-180 degrees F (some say more), cure should always be used!

Please be aware of the risks.

Clostridium botulinum bacteria need moisture, warm temperatures and the absence of oxygen to thrive. Those conditions are prevalent in a smoker when cold or warm smoking, where incoming air is kept at a minimum in order for the wood to smolder.

Botulism is a rare, but serious, often deadly, illness caused by Clostridium botulinum bacteria.

Nitrate and nitrite, are the ONLY reliable botulism preventative!

“The foods most commonly contaminated are home-canned vegetables, cured pork and ham, smoked or raw fish, and honey or corn syrup.”

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/botulism/overview.html

Clostridium botulinum bacterium is present nearly everywhere that isn’t sterile or well sanitized, and while there may be more danger in smoking something like sausages without proper care and cure, the danger is still present with whole muscle meats.
People smoke in numerous ways in numerous containers at numerous smoke and oxygen levels, it’s impossible to accurately know if there’s enough oxygen to stay safe.

While the risk of deadly botulism may be small, the danger is great.

It’s akin to driving without a seat belt, you may get away with it for 30 years or tomorrow you may meet tragedy.

It’s not worth the gamble considering the small cost of a tiny bit of nitrite/nitrate.

HTH

Cheers, peace and bacon grease.

~Martin ;)
 
Thanks to both for the well thought answers - I REALLY do appreciate the time and effort it took you to reply. So, your answers led me to another question (maybe a Dummies Guide to Smoking is the book for me.....). Since I will try to preserve the original wine-flavor, thus the wine bath is needed, is it okay to dissolve the appropriate amount of cure in the wine or should I dry-cure the meat and then after this is over put the meat in the wine bath?

Thanks once again

Andreas
 
I can't add much to Martin's comments, but I will say that you need to keep in mind what the average life expectancy was in the ancient times when they smoked uncured meats. A red wine and nitrite cure would be really interesting.
 
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