WSK - temperature control advice needed - smoked beef short ribs w/pics


 

John K BBQ

TVWBB All-Star
Well - here I am, a mostly satisfied WSK customer, able to produce some good results, but still having issues controlling temperature.

This past Sunday I smoked some beef short ribs. Results were pretty good, 4 out of 5 stars (photos below). Bark was awesome, but didn't get the tenderness I wanted. WSK ran a rock steady 290 give or take 10F, but when I pulled these little bad boys off at 200F internal, I didn't wrap in foil right away. Instead I put in a 170F oven, around 3PM, and then after being in the oven for an hour or so, they weren't tender enough, so then I wrapped in foil with butter and some beef broth, and then plated up around 6 PM - again, these were good, but not quite what I'd hoped in terms of tenderness (photos below). I'd like to perfect these little bad boys... could be a "signature dish" since wifey said she liked them :)

WSK was set up with the grate on bottom, about 2/3 full of KF Original. I put a lighter cube in one spot near the edge, added the deflector plate, the water pan (with foil ball spacers) and closed the lid, top vent flipped open for full air flow, bottom vent wide open, after I hit 200, I put the bottom vent at the "smoke" setting, flipped the top vent down, and closed the 4 holes about half way. Never cood could down to that 250 to 275 range after that. Of course... I've already admitted to a less than stellar resting method, so maybe running a little hot has nothing to do with the 4 out of 5 star results. It was also a 90F afternoon, and very little wind, and no rain... The WSK ran for about 3 hours, and used less than half of the charcoal I dumped in (see pic below)

Or..... maybe I shouldn't have used my kabob skewers... although it was sort of fun to cook like that, I don't think it really helped anything. I was thinking by using that method, the meat would never touch grates and I'd never lose any bark... of course I wouldn't have that issue if I just put the bone side down on the grate either... (yes, I do tend to overthink things).. As always, open to comments and questions if I've left out anything important. Let me know what you think!

Here we are, about 2 hours into the cook. Short ribs seasoned generously with 16 mesh black pepper and salt, skewered to keep them off the grates, water pan underneath to help keep temperatures down, and to add moisture to the cook chamber. I pulled them about an hour later at 200F

plate.jpg

Here we are - after 3 hours of smoke, 1 hour unwrapped resting in a 170F oven, not tender at all. I wrapped in foil w/butter and beef broth. Bark was lookin' pretty good!

foiling.jpg

Here we are on the plate with some home made TX style beans and salad - bark and flavor was great - texture was a little more chewy than I wanted

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This photo taken after the cook gives you a pretty good idea of how I set up the fire, and how much charcoal I used. Maybe I should have set the charcoal up between two baskets, sort of like a snake (or fuse) to help limit how many briquettes could light at once? OR maybe if I only need a 5 or 6 hour cook in hot weather, should I just put it about half that many briquettes?

spent charcoal.jpg
 
Did your short ribs "fall off the bone" before be placed in the aluminum with butter ?
You noted the times and temperatures, but did you ever check for Tenderness ?
 
First question, why are your short ribs so small?

These are full sized ones:

View attachment 72123
LOL your ribs are bigger than mine, I get it - but serioiusly, here in St Louis finding a 3 bone rack is kind of a pain. The grocery stores in my area normally cut those up into smaller sections aka short ribs. I can pluck those right ouf of the case, and not have to ask any questions/explain anything to anyone and they're about $36 for what you saw in my photos. Also, I figured why shouldn't I try it? Having smaller raw meat sections gives me more bark... sort of a burnt end thing you know?
 
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Did your short ribs "fall off the bone" before be placed in the aluminum with butter ?
You noted the times and temperatures, but did you ever check for Tenderness ?
You can see in the pics - the meat was pulling away from the bones, big time, but the meat itself wasn't really tender when it was at 200F. I figured it just hadn't spent enough time at the right temp (190 to 200) to melt all the collagen, etc, s - o then put into a 170F oven w/out foiling.... Not mentioned before but these ribs were "Certified Angus" which I believe translates into "Choice" and not prime. I didn't notice much marbling so maybe the meat itself wasn't all that great?

Now that I'm writing this, MAYBE I made two mistakes. 1 - should have foiled right as soon as I took them off the smoker, and 2 should have rested in 190 to 200F oven because the ribs were so small they lost heat too quickly and didn't get enough time in that collagen melting range?

Still interested in comments on how to run the WSK at 250 to 275... I still think running in that 290 to 300F range was part of the issue.
 
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Where was your temp probe? Did you use the thermometer on the lid? Height makes a difference.

As seen in amazingribs.com, you actually get hotter higher up in the smoker. It might read 300 on the lid but be 50 degrees cooler on the cooking grate.

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I also think there's a bit of an issue with smaller ribs. I had a problem with ribs around that size too. They cook to fast to break down the collagen. I think maybe the only thing you could do is sacrifice the bark and wrap earlier.
 
LOL your ribs are bigger than mine, I get it - but serioiusly, here in St Louis finding a 3 bone rack is kind of a pain. The grocery stores in my area normally cut those up into smaller sections aka short ribs. I can pluck those right ouf of the case, and not have to ask any questions/explain anything to anyone and they're about $36 for what you saw in my photos. Also, I figured why shouldn't I try it? Having smaller raw meat sections gives me more bark... sort of a burnt end thing you know?
I am in middle America as well, & I order "prime" grade beef ribs from Creekstone Farms & Wild Fork Foods. Also, I believe your temperature was to high for beef ribs.
 
I have made both sized ribs before and only learned a couple things. This is what I know.
Ribs Brett's size I made a few weeks back and posted.....I cook this like a brisket pretty much.
Short ribs cut into pieces like yours I have made only 1 time......with another pack in the freezer waiting to be cooked.
I call these braised ribs......Smoke to the usual 160 or so, low n slow is best for every reason of course.
I made up a broth of red wine, tomato paste and lots of veggies and then braised the beef in that until post 200 temps.
This resulted in bbq look, flavor and taste as well as a fancy red wine taste.....fall off the bone.
 
Where was your temp probe? Did you use the thermometer on the lid? Height makes a difference.

As seen in amazingribs.com, you actually get hotter higher up in the smoker. It might read 300 on the lid but be 50 degrees cooler on the cooking grate.

View attachment 72130


I also think there's a bit of an issue with smaller ribs. I had a problem with ribs around that size too. They cook to fast to break down the collagen. I think maybe the only thing you could do is sacrifice the bark and wrap earlier.
I had my probe situated on the grate - as noted 290 to 300 F, and yes, that's too hot. Was hoping for 250 to 275F. You have a good point, since I had my ribs about 6" above the cooking grate, maybe it was even a little hotter "up there" with heat radiating down. I could always cook my next batch on the WSM where I can run just about any temperature I want between 200F and 300F.... locking in low temps on the WSK is still a challenge for me...
 
I get the part about not being tender enough, but they sure look good! :) I also think trying the same ribs on the WSM could tell you a lot. Comparing to your known entity. If you don't want to do that, just package up the ribs and send to me -- I'll do it for you. 😁
 
Initial thoughts are:

Meat is too small for those temps. You pushed all the collagen and fat into the pan below. Recco, place the ribs on the cooking grate and not elevate them.

You need to learn/see how your bottom vent opens and mark it on the outside slider ring on your grill (the bottom where you adjust temps with the rake). For LAS I have gone less than the smoke setting on the WSK. I’d recco to see how your sweeps open and see what the setting are. You don’t need a lot of air when shooting for 250°, which is very low IMO. Use the top vent to draft your airflow to set your temp with a minimal bottom opening.

Size of water pan and amount of water does act as a heat sync. The water filled pan is your temp regulator and helps keep the air moist for longer time periods, especially when targeting LAS cooks. I’ll repost my grate temp pics from my Signals/brisket cooks so you can see that the larger water pan and fine tuning the lower vent can get you to the 225-250° range. I have done this on overnight briskets with success.

You need to buy the full length ribs. I think you need more meat as these samples you cooked just don’t have enough density to cook properly in this setting and at 290°.

Conclusion, you had too much heat, should have wrapped at 165°, with liquid in the foil until meat was 195° and then reset the bark for the final temp of 200°. I think this would have yielded succulent, fall off the bone meat. That last braising step is important as you don’t have enough protein density with your sample sized pieces to get to fall off tender cut with a fork finish.

Costco sells the full 4 bone rack you seek. I buy the 4 pack and use it in different meals. One bone becomes burger for 25/25/50, short ribs, brisket, chuck burgers. The other three go into a traditional Italian ragu, bone included for a heavenly sauce.

I don’t think your coal setup had any bearing on your results. Keep that method. Alternatively, form a V with your CBs and place the coals in the V center shape and light the tip of the V’s coals and then smoke. I’ll see if I have this pic to share. John in NJ I believe posted this pic recently too.

Lmk if you have more questions. I’m not picking on the size of your ribs. I just personally would not have cooked them like this due to their size. IMO, they’re too small and can go off course quickly if your temps runaway from you.
 
Initial thoughts are:

Meat is too small for those temps. You pushed all the collagen and fat into the pan below. Recco, place the ribs on the cooking grate and not elevate them.

You need to learn/see how your bottom vent opens and mark it on the outside slider ring on your grill (the bottom where you adjust temps with the rake). For LAS I have gone less than the smoke setting on the WSK. I’d recco to see how your sweeps open and see what the setting are. You don’t need a lot of air when shooting for 250°, which is very low IMO. Use the top vent to draft your airflow to set your temp with a minimal bottom opening.

Size of water pan and amount of water does act as a heat sync. The water filled pan is your temp regulator and helps keep the air moist for longer time periods, especially when targeting LAS cooks. I’ll repost my grate temp pics from my Signals/brisket cooks so you can see that the larger water pan and fine tuning the lower vent can get you to the 225-250° range. I have done this on overnight briskets with success.

You need to buy the full length ribs. I think you need more meat as these samples you cooked just don’t have enough density to cook properly in this setting and at 290°.

Conclusion, you had too much heat, should have wrapped at 165°, with liquid in the foil until meat was 195° and then reset the bark for the final temp of 200°. I think this would have yielded succulent, fall off the bone meat. That last braising step is important as you don’t have enough protein density with your sample sized pieces to get to fall off tender cut with a fork finish.

Costco sells the full 4 bone rack you seek. I buy the 4 pack and use it in different meals. One bone becomes burger for 25/25/50, short ribs, brisket, chuck burgers. The other three go into a traditional Italian ragu, bone included for a heavenly sauce.

I don’t think your coal setup had any bearing on your results. Keep that method. Alternatively, form a V with your CBs and place the coals in the V center shape and light the tip of the V’s coals and then smoke. I’ll see if I have this pic to share. John in NJ I believe posted this pic recently too.

Lmk if you have more questions. I’m not picking on the size of your ribs. I just personally would not have cooked them like this due to their size. IMO, they’re too small and can go off course quickly if your temps runaway from you.
Brett - good info on the LAS method - I didn't think my fire building technique was the issue. I will follow most of this advice, but I want to have 1 more crack at the short ribs before going for the full sized rack. I do like the extra bark that comes with the pre-cut short ribs, along with better availability... (I don't belong to Costco, and the nearest location is 20 minutes away vs other options that are < 10 minutes away).

I've had issues with my WSK when trying to run the top vents at < 1/4 open... could maybe get down a smidge below that, but the fire will definitely go out if the top vent is open by just a crack. I haven't tried setting the bottom vent below the normal "D shape" that the vent is when in "Smoking" mode. How small have you gone with that opening? Maybe half of the "D"? I am willing to give this a shot... just curious on how low we can go there before we snuff the fire all together.
 
Post in thread '🔯 Passover 2023 🔯 the cook starts this weekend'
https://tvwbb.com/threads/🔯-passover-2023-🔯-the-cook-starts-this-weekend.94330/post-1089977

You can see how low I had and maintained grate temp in this specific post.

I think you need to see inside your WSK how open the sweep vent is in any smoke setting on your slider. Each slider, and any built up crud in your lower bowl, will change the opening and how much airflow you’re allowing in.

I usually start at the smoke setting and then smidge it down a little, but a little is a little as in it’s not an accurate measurement. You can go closed just enough and then open the top vents to 50% and then incrementally dial down the top vent to reduce the draft airflow.

Understood on product availability. I’d personally just ask the butcher the the 4 plate short rib rack uncut. But that’s just me. You CAN do this cook with the cut ribs you’re using. And yes, lots of good bark you have there.

Lmk if you have additional questions. We can move to DMs and a call for a private discussion. You got this. You can get this done!
 
Brett - good info on the LAS method - I didn't think my fire building technique was the issue. I will follow most of this advice, but I want to have 1 more crack at the short ribs before going for the full sized rack. I do like the extra bark that comes with the pre-cut short ribs, along with better availability... (I don't belong to Costco, and the nearest location is 20 minutes away vs other options that are < 10 minutes away).

I've had issues with my WSK when trying to run the top vents at < 1/4 open... could maybe get down a smidge below that, but the fire will definitely go out if the top vent is open by just a crack. I haven't tried setting the bottom vent below the normal "D shape" that the vent is when in "Smoking" mode. How small have you gone with that opening? Maybe half of the "D"? I am willing to give this a shot... just curious on how low we can go there before we snuff the fire all together.
Here’s the coal in a V-setup. I’d flip the CBS so they’re upside down so you don’t pour briqs into the CBS when loading. Light the tip of the V and you should be good to go.

I started using this method and like it. Just one more setup of a few that I employ in the WSK.

Post in thread 'The Not Ready for Prime Time Player Gets Busy'
https://tvwbb.com/threads/the-not-ready-for-prime-time-player-gets-busy.94905/post-1097142
 
Thanks for all the info + encouragement. I hit both of your post links. Will give this another go soon. I will eye-ball the lower vents and make a reference point on the lever so I can go to about "half smoke" and see how that runs.
 
@John K BBQ I marked the lower vent sections with a sharpie.

The mark on the left is fully closed ( Not sure why I needed to mark it, but whatever )

The next mark to the right is when the P section of the opening is fully open

The next mark to the right is when the vents are fully open.

I check the sweeps every now and then to make sure they are not gunked up and sealing. If I'm getting setup for a low temp cook I might pay more attention to this than higher temp grilling.


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@John K BBQ I marked the lower vent sections with a sharpie.

The mark on the left is fully closed ( Not sure why I needed to mark it, but whatever )

The next mark to the right is when the P section of the opening is fully open

The next mark to the right is when the vents are fully open.

I check the sweeps every now and then to make sure they are not gunked up and sealing. If I'm getting setup for a low temp cook I might pay more attention to this than higher temp grilling.


View attachment 72157
Dude is an excellent technical leader here! Exactly what a WSK owner needs to know and understand. This dataset is so important to dialing in different cook types. Thanks, @DanHoo
 
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