What Is Improperly Combusted Smoke Wood?


 
Michael F

Michael F

New member
What exactly is improperly combusted wood? I came across the term while reading through the forum to try to find out how to prevent ribs from becoming too dark. Burnt sugar, improper airflow, too much smoke, and leaving glazed ribs in the smoker for too long seem to be the reasons why ribs become dark. But I use turbinado sugar and I doubt there are any big spikes in the temperature while cooking (225-240 grate). I always have the top vent fully open, and I only use about 3 tennis ball sized chunks of fruit wood. The ribs never taste bitter or overly smoked. I don't use a lot of chili powder or paprika in my rubs. And I glaze on the gas grill, after the ribs have already become dark.

The only other thing I've read that may be the cause is improperly combusted wood. I use the minion method and add the smoke wood onto the hot coals right after I put the meat on. Am I doing anything wrong? Should I put the wood on a few minutes first?

Thanks.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael F:
Should I put the wood on a few minutes first?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can try that or, as some do, put wood in the chimney when you start the MM. The wood needs to burn instead of just smolder. When you apply rub, just sprinkle it on and pat it, don't try to rub it in.
 
a fire that burns from the top down and has wood on top of the lit coals can be problematic. I use to burn my smoke woods that way but have moved away from it.

when in that arrangement the wood will heat up and release gases that rise up and away from the fire before they have been fully or partially combusted.

if your wood is buried under the lit the gasses it releases must pass through the hottest part of the fire and will undergo more combustion.

since I switch the arrangement, I've noticed a cleaner smoke taste, but I'm not sure this has much effect on color.

as for color. I'd be suspicious of you rub ingredients.

however, how dark is dark? I've seen some pics here of things that came off a wsm looking pretty dark, if not black.
 
Mike, I understand where J is coming from but I disagree. I've been putting my smoke wood on top of my lit coals for a long time and have never noticed any after taste. I don't have to fight smoke in my eyes when I put my meat on which is a big plus for me. What I do get, sometimes, is wood that looks like it hasn't completely burned down,almost like charcoal. I just leave it in there for the next cook . No big deal
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael F:
What exactly is improperly combusted wood? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does not matter where or when you put your wood on. What matters is 'proper airflow', lack of air flow in and/or exhaust out will cause the wood to 'smolder' (improperly combust). With adequate airflow the wood will slowly burn (completely combust).
 
I'm with Larry here. Worth noting as well that overly moist wood with a slow start-up can be a factor in improper combustion, at least at the outset.

Overly dark ribs often result from rub ingredients and/or excessive smoke.

Note that darkening does not mean at all that anything burned. Even white sugar or brown sugar will not burn at the temps you note, Michael. You'll need in excess of 350 for burning, ~ 320 for actual caramelization.

That said, starting with already dark sugar (the turbinado) will automatically be the cause of some of the darkening as it melts. Ground chilies of any kind will darken as well. Smoke particulates that adhere will cause some darkening themselves - which can be excessive if a lot of smokewood is used.

For many of the rubs I have developed for comp teams I use white sugar, lighter spices, minimal chile and finely ground herbs. Works well.
 
whew, it took a bunch of searching but I finally found the nugget I was after:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> In third world countries, when they clear the land of forests, they burn the brush piles. They used to start the fires from the bottom and burn up. This produced tons of pollutants in the form of nasty smoke. Environmentalists now teach them to start the fires at the top of the brush pile. As the fire works it's way from the top to the bottom, The nasty smoke has to flow through the layer of hot air above. This helps to finish the burn off of nastiness. Mr Jim "Cardog" Minion used this idea in his now infamous top-down burn. The hot zone is above the fresh coals so nasty gases are further converted into cleaner gases. Once a whole bunch of coals are lit, I think the overall temperature in the bottom of the pit will make for cleaner smoke.
db </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

from this thread

it makes sense to me that if the wood is underneath the lit, the gases must past through the extremely hot lit before it gets to the meat.

I try to avoid adding wood to the top of my minion early in the burn for this reason. and I think I've notice a difference since I've switched my method.
 
Thanks everyone for the help. I have a couple more questions regarding what Paul said about wood not burning all the way down and looking like charcoal. That is usually the case for me at the end of the cook. The wood has turned into pieces that are like charcoal. Should the wood be burning down completely? That isn't an indication of any kind of improper combustion is it? And I always have at least one bottom vent open a bit and the top vent is always fully open. Is that enough for proper airflow?

And taking your guys' advice, I'm going to try adding the hot coals on top of the wood to see if there are any differences in taste. I'm not really bothered by the color of the ribs. They're not close to being black but I just wanted to try to get those really nice looking ribs that are more of a reddish mahogany color. And I'll mess around with my rub and see what happens. Maybe I'll get rid of the paprika and switch back to white sugar.
 
Who doesn't find woodchunks in their charcoal at the end of a cook? If they didn't burn up, what did they do besides smolder?

NO PROBLEM, because a little smoldering wood in an oxygen deprived environment is simply not going to introduce the same nasty kind of smoke one gets from a wood FIRE that's not BURNING cleanly. (Think: offset stick burner!)

Sure, we can oversmoke stuff! We can overseason, as well, and that's actually what we're doing with the smoke. However, it's not the same as oversmoking with a stick burner where there's an actual wood fire. In other words, how many of us wsm users are required to use foil just so our 'Q won't be too smoky? Unless you simply don't know any better, foil is exactly what's required if you don't take the trouble to keep the fire burnly cleanly with a stick burner...been there, done that...and I think that the worst of the smoke is going OVER and not even contacting the meat with most offset cookers!

If we don't want the wood to smolder, then why would we bury it in a pile of unlit charcoal and just light the top and do a slow burn down? Many of us don't even put water in the pan, so that means oxygen will be even further depleted in order to keep the temps low.

Don't use too much wood, leave the lid vent open, make sure the charcoal has stopped billowing white smoke before exposing to meat, and it's all good!
icon_smile.gif


IMHO
Dave
wsm, ots, UDS, char-griller
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
a fire that burns from the top down and has wood on top of the lit coals can be problematic. I use to burn my smoke woods that way but have moved away from it.

when in that arrangement the wood will heat up and release gases that rise up and away from the fire before they have been fully or partially combusted.

if your wood is buried under the lit the gasses it releases must pass through the hottest part of the fire and will undergo more combustion.

since I switch the arrangement, I've noticed a cleaner smoke taste, but I'm not sure this has much effect on color.

as for color. I'd be suspicious of you rub ingredients.

however, how dark is dark? I've seen some pics here of things that came off a wsm looking pretty dark, if not black. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same call for me as JB on this one. A good analogy would be with a horizontal with side firebox that has lots of coal and a nice blue/clear smoke coming out of the stack.

If you throw on "sticks" or "splits" that are too big you end up with white or worse yet black smoke until the added fuel is fully engaged. If you end up in that black/white smoke scenario too long guess what - things are turning black/dark.

It's all fire control. You are not adding wood to the WSM typically. Keep the smoke-wood buried and it's getting incorporate while the coals are setting up or burning through, you're never overloading and becoming oxygen starved.

If you see yellow flame you are giving off soot/carbon. You want to minimize that period. Through either a hotter fire or adding less fuel at one time. Use chips instead of chunks in the WSM or in a horizontal smaller diameter sticks or splits.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael F:
Thanks everyone for the help. I have a couple more questions regarding what Paul said about wood not burning all the way down and looking like charcoal. That is usually the case for me at the end of the cook. The wood has turned into pieces that are like charcoal. Should the wood be burning down completely? That isn't an indication of any kind of improper combustion is it? And I always have at least one bottom vent open a bit and the top vent is always fully open. Is that enough for proper airflow?

And taking your guys' advice, I'm going to try adding the hot coals on top of the wood to see if there are any differences in taste. I'm not really bothered by the color of the ribs. They're not close to being black but I just wanted to try to get those really nice looking ribs that are more of a reddish mahogany color. And I'll mess around with my rub and see what happens. Maybe I'll get rid of the paprika and switch back to white sugar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Higher temps, sugars, and also any blood spots (that didn't get worked out in prepping) are the likely culprits in ribs getting too dark.

This might not be your concern (read on), but saucing too early is real easy to do as well, and that's relative to the cooking temp. If cooking temp is 225, obviously a sauce won't blacken as fast as if at 275. BTW, it's safest just to sauce after pulling the ribs off the pit, particularly if not using water in the pan to help control temp spikes...less mess in the cooker, too.

I know you probably were concerned about the appearance of the racks before saucing, but it's the same way with the sugars in the rubs. The hotter you cook, the faster the sugars will start to make the rack dark. I guess there are other factors as well that come into play here...

Most everyone uses paprika, but a lot of folks avoid sugar altogether due to what we're talking about. (You can always wrap in foil once the ribs look the way you want them to.) The paprika affect on darkening is news to me, so I'll have to try some without and check out the difference.

FYI, turbinado sugar is NOT supposed to burn as easily as the other sugars! I haven't tested this personally, but it't quite a published claim so I don't see reason to dispute it. It costs a good bit more than other sugars and this is the only reason folks use it, other than for the "clump factor" of brown sugar. The brown sugar is supposed to darken faster, but obviously has more flavor.

Good luck with it. Most of us are still working on improving some aspect of our finished product, ribs especially.

Dave
 
My head is reeling from all the good discussion on this subject. I can see this turning into a "fat cap up or down?" or "foil or no foil?" type of thread. My thanks to all of you with thoughts and perspective on this matter.

Since I am more of a "reader/learner" than a "poster/contributor" the best I can do is to Rate It! to capture other's attention, and encourage everyone to do the same.

JimT
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r benash:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
a fire that burns from the top down and has wood on top of the lit coals can be problematic. I use to burn my smoke woods that way but have moved away from it.

when in that arrangement the wood will heat up and release gases that rise up and away from the fire before they have been fully or partially combusted.

if your wood is buried under the lit the gasses it releases must pass through the hottest part of the fire and will undergo more combustion.

since I switch the arrangement, I've noticed a cleaner smoke taste, but I'm not sure this has much effect on color.

as for color. I'd be suspicious of you rub ingredients.

however, how dark is dark? I've seen some pics here of things that came off a wsm looking pretty dark, if not black. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same call for me as JB on this one. A good analogy would be with a horizontal with side firebox that has lots of coal and a nice blue/clear smoke coming out of the stack.

If you throw on "sticks" or "splits" that are too big you end up with white or worse yet black smoke until the added fuel is fully engaged. If you end up in that black/white smoke scenario too long guess what - things are turning black/dark.

It's all fire control. You are not adding wood to the WSM typically. Keep the smoke-wood buried and it's getting incorporate while the coals are setting up or burning through, you're never overloading and becoming oxygen starved.

If you see yellow flame you are giving off soot/carbon. You want to minimize that period. Through either a hotter fire or adding less fuel at one time. Use chips instead of chunks in the WSM or in a horizontal smaller diameter sticks or splits. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out my above post.

You are most certainly right about yellow flames giving off soot/carbon, but that's not a problem with the wsm unless the door's open or you leave the lid off too long. That is another reason to bury the chunks as JB suggests, though.

However, regarding your last statement quoted, I beg to differ. I don't see the correlation to the size of smoke wood for the wsm and the size of splits for a wood burning offset. It's two different kinds of "fires" altogether, with the wsm being quite oxygen deprived for a slow burn, and the offset fire being kept small, but with ample oxygen for a clean fire. Some folks might mix in chips instead of chunks because they want less smoke flavor, but the the chips are still smoldering in an oxygen deprived environment just like the chunks would be, just with a lot less smoke.

In other words, you won't get that yellow flame you mentioned with chunks or chips as long as the oxygen supply is kept in check like how we do with the wsm. BTW, it's REAL EASY to have a yellow flame on an offset, and REAL HARD to keep the smoke blue on most of them, especially the smaller ones. I hope that makes sense. I need a nap.

Regards,
Dave
 
Hi Dave, I was talking about fire control in general, not just with WSM. In WSM burying the chunks into the charcoal means it is igniting/burning as the fire progressing through the fuel load, it's more surrounded by embers from lit coals and will ignite/engage faster and won't give off heavy smoke for as long a period. Just tossing chunks on top you will get heavy white or even black smoke with the door lid closed for a longer duration since it is trying to burn from the bottom up. If you open the lid you will see yellow flame as you provide more oxygen.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r benash:
Hi Dave, I was talking about fire control in general, not just with WSM. In WSM burying the chunks into the charcoal means it is igniting/burning as the fire progressing through the fuel load, it's more surrounded by embers from lit coals and will ignite/engage faster and won't give off heavy smoke for as long a period. Just tossing chunks on top you will get heavy white or even black smoke with the door lid closed for a longer duration since it is trying to burn from the bottom up. If you open the lid you will see yellow flame as you provide more oxygen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny...I see "...as you provide more oxygen.." here at the end of your quote but your post ended with "yellow flame." I was like, "of course, you just opened the lid and provided all kind of oxygen!"

Anyway, regardless of the science, I do think the chunks mixed in is the better way to go. I was just pointing out that you actually have a fire with the offset and we need not be too concerned about soot deposits with the wsm.
 
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