What exactly DOES make the WSM better than a modified kettle?

[Joe Anshien]

Tim - You were up late writing this;-) Great write up. That SNS looks really nice. After coming back to charcoal cooking (thanks TVWBB) my first 2 long cooks were briskets on the kettle using a home made Bro-N-Sear. Keeping steady temps drove me crazy, but my cocoa / coffee rubbed briskets were out of the world fantastic! I then picket up a WSM cheap to flip. I decided to try it out before selling it and wound up keeping it for quite some time because with the water bowl it kept temp fantastic. It sat at about 250° and I did not have to touch it. With the WSM I now had a 3rd grill as I had a gasser, Performer, and now WSM (soon a 4th with a griddle). It's probably me, but I got fantastic smoke, but a lot of it was dirty. To get nice clean smoke I think it was about an hour from lighting the first few coals in a chimney using the minion method. I am just not the patient type, so as soon as the smoker hit temp I just put the meat on. When I moved I sold off the Performer, WSM, and griddle and bought a Masterbuilt Gravity 800. With the 800 it is up to temp rolling clean smoke in 10-15 minutes. I put chickens on either the rotisserie or beer can and start off at 250° for some smoke and end up at 475° for crispy skin while sitting inside watching TV. Smoking other things even easier. I really like the 800 but know it is not a "forever grill". I think when / if we move again or the grill eventually falls apart, I would go with a used kettle, Spider Viper, rotisserie ring, and Kettle Zone setup to give me the same functionality at the same or lower cost. If the Viper fit the SNS kettle it would be awesome. Guga does a great review and comparison of the SNS.

 

[Bill D-NC]

This is an old thread but

@Jeff Beitinger I had been wondering something similar but with a different slant. Having had a WSM-22 and doing about 20-30 cooks on it with roughly half being 4 hours or longer, heres what I concluded about the WSM
Heat Management: I struggled to keep it below 275 degrees unless I used cheap charcoal, a snake method and water pan, with all the vents closed. Even with those provisions it burned through charcoal relatively fast and had to be reloaded about every 4 hours.

Smoke and Flavor: Like most any Weber Kettle the WSM really does put out a great product and alot of it. I have 2 friends with a pellet grill and an offset smoker and they both like the flavor from the WSM better then what their grills produce.

Usability: However, without substantial mods like a lid hinge, roller wheels, tool hooks and a side table the WSM is clumsy to move around, clean the charcoal ashes and or use as a direct cook bbq.

In April of this year I sold my WSM and purchased a SNS 22' Kettle. In addition to the slow-n-sear basket and drip tray, I also bought a charcoal ring and diffuser plate to help me cook low and slow. I have done about 8 cooks on it (babybacks, burgers, bratwurst, chicken wings, Pork Butt, 2x TriTip, and Turkey) Heres what I learned about the SNS 22' Kettle.

Heat Management: I am really impressed with the range and easy adjustability with this kettle. I can stoke up the slow-n-sear with vents wide open and be searing meat at 450+. I can then replace with a charcoal ring and diffuser plate with water pan, close all the vents and open the smoke hole and it will ride between 220-230 for 7+ hours. Also because its a much smaller area it seems to be alot more efficient with charcoal consumption.

Smoke and Flavor: I was blown away by the flavor, juiciness and smoke flavor this kettle can produce on even short cooks. I would say its on par or dare I say better, then what my WSM could produce. I cooked a turkey about 300 for 4 hours and a Pork butt around 225 for about 11 hours and they both came out really good.

Usability: Except for the WSM's (significant) ability to cook alot of product at once, this 22' kettle beats it in everything else I have found important. Similar to the Weber Performer, this Kettle has way more features including a lid cradle, wheels, bottom and side shelves, tool hooks, smoke hole, external charcoal catcher and a more accurate low mounted thermometer. This kettle is just easier to use on a day to day basis and comparable at low-n-slow cooking while being better at searing.

So thats my 2 cents. If you only have budget or space for one rig, I would tell friends to go with a 22' Kettle and and acquire the cooking accessories mentioned above. For a small family like mine, its perfect blend of form and function. However if you regularly are hosting large gatherings and need to smoke 3-4 large cuts of meat at once, then the WSM is hard to beat.

I don't disagree with many of the points that you made above. I used two 22" WSMs in competition as well as using them for home use. I did not have as much trouble as you seemed to maintaining temps. I cooked with good 'ole Kingsford Blue and, at competitions, primarily used it for briskets. I was able to go at least 8 hours without refilling charcoal.

I did add a Cajun Bandit door to improve sealing. I also added the Unknown Lid Hinge. I fabbed up wheels since this prior to those being available in a kit. I also added clips that held the middle and bottom together. I agree that emptying it was a real pain in the ash. But Weber did have a special shovel for WSMs that made it a lot easier.

As far as production goes, on at least 2 occasions (for charity events) I was able to cook 16 butts at one time on my pair of Bullets.

I also agree the the Kettle is one of the most versatile cookers that's every been developed. I had a 22" for years before buying the WSMs.

For me, the best solution if you only want the one most versatile cooker that gives you the option of producing large amounts of food, go withe the 26er ! ! !

Using a Vortex, I can cook up to 60 wings in 45 minutes. The SnS adds even more versatility. I tool an extra WSM top grate and added some carriage bolts to it so that I can get some extra real estate when smoking things like ribs, pork chops, chicken parts, etc. But if you use the charcoal baskets, you can reduce the amount of fuel needed it you are just cooking for 1 or 2 people.

I did go for the Cajun Bandit Rotisserie. I haven't done it yet, but with an extra 26er grate you could use that as a stacker and have pretty much same production as you would an a 22" Bullet.

So, for me, the best choice for all around most versatile cooker is the 26" Kettle. It would be cool, one day though, if it came in some colors besides black . . .





BD

 

[Michael Iron]

I purchased the SnS when it first came out. Think I may be the only one on the internet that isn't a huge fan LOL. Minion method is just that and for the slow part I never seen an advantage of it. On the 22" kettles I just used baskets or rails prior to it coming out and never seen any real advantage to it. Keeping heat steady in Minnesota can be quite a challenge when temps can and will vary 20-30° during a cook. And living in the second windiest city in the US it really affects a cook. But during the summer when you want the wind to cool down it dies down.

Baskets either side minion method on kettle check.

But on the WSM with no wood smoke, the smoke is from the juices dripping on the hot coals and giving a unique flavor profile, WSM for the win.

Hard to insulate a kettle in the winter. Silicone jacket on the WSM goes a long ways. Lady I used to date and cook for used to call it a condom. She would complain about smoked meats and carcinogens but would grab food off the platter on my way in from the deck to the kitchen.

I eventually cheated with the WSM and run an ATC and keep rock solid temps. No matter what the wind or temps are and how much they change.

For searing the SnS takes a LOT of charcoal. You can snuff it out when done but that causes creosote buildup on the lid. Even if you scrape the large sheets off you get specks of it on your food eventually. Not a fan. I much prefer charcoal rails with a charcoal grate sitting on top with the meat right over it. Takes a lot less charcoal.

You can have my grillgrates when you pry them from my cold dead hands

WSM is great for stacking pork over things like no boil mac n cheese and doctored baked beans so the juices and flavors drop into them. Can't do that on a kettle.

But wings on the 22" kettle with a Vortex just can't be replicated on a WSM. Several keys to decent wings one is that the sauce has changed from the 70's and 80's. Butter has become expensive and many places cut down on the butter. Add more butter. And you will not find any carrots and ranch at my house for wings pfft! Blue cheese and celery the way the Anchor Bar started out with them.

Twice "baked" no more than 10 minutes somewhere between 5-10 after saucing and throwing back on

You can't do that on a WSM.

The right tool for the job. Not a fan of convergence. But if I had to limit myself to only one (shudder at the thought) it would be the 26" kettle. @Bill D-NC nailed it. I almost never use the WSM after getting the 26" kettle. Finally found a good use for the 22" SnS I place it near the wall of the 26" kettle and just dump a row of charcoal between it and the kettle wall.

Basically it is a snake without stacking it, the depth depends on how cold and windy it is. The SnS acts as a heat shield between the heat and food. You do enough of them you figure it out. I can normally run about 6 hours before I need to fill it again between the SnS and the kettle wall. It has become easier to to do than breaking out the WSM for most smokes. And obviously works well for grilling. Meat on a spinning stick is still the WSM or one of the 22" kettles.

As is evident from the last picture if you own and run a SnS long enough they will start to rust. Never filled it much, I pretty much just use it as a heat shield and help stack the snake.

 

[Tim-wannabe-smoker]

I don't disagree with many of the points that you made above. I used two 22" WSMs in competition as well as using them for home use. I did not have as much trouble as you seemed to maintaining temps. I cooked with good 'ole Kingsford Blue and, at competitions, primarily used it for briskets. I was able to go at least 8 hours without refilling charcoal.

I did add a Cajun Bandit door to improve sealing. I also added the Unknown Lid Hinge. I fabbed up wheels since this prior to those being available in a kit. I also added clips that held the middle and bottom together. I agree that emptying it was a real pain in the ash. But Weber did have a special shovel for WSMs that made it a lot easier.

As far as production goes, on at least 2 occasions (for charity events) I was able to cook 16 butts at one time on my pair of Bullets.

I also agree the the Kettle is one of the most versatile cookers that's every been developed. I had a 22" for years before buying the WSMs.

For me, the best solution if you only want the one most versatile cooker that gives you the option of producing large amounts of food, go withe the 26er ! ! !

Using a Vortex, I can cook up to 60 wings in 45 minutes. The SnS adds even more versatility. I tool an extra WSM top grate and added some carriage bolts to it so that I can get some extra real estate when smoking things like ribs, pork chops, chicken parts, etc. But if you use the charcoal baskets, you can reduce the amount of fuel needed it you are just cooking for 1 or 2 people.

I did go for the Cajun Bandit Rotisserie. I haven't done it yet, but with an extra 26er grate you could use that as a stacker and have pretty much same production as you would an a 22" Bullet.

So, for me, the best choice for all around most versatile cooker is the 26" Kettle. It would be cool, one day though, if it came in some colors besides black . . .





BD

Okay @Bill D-NC you got me there and great post. The 26 incher never entered my mind as Ive never had one but Ive heard fabulous things. Also I know lots of guys who are better cooks and engineers then I, have cranked out stellar products on the WSM (many of you here as well). However, for an aspiring wannabe smoker the WSM is a bit of an enigma. It seems theres alot of tips and tricks to figure out the nuances with it... where the Kettle just works and can cook everything I need it to cook. Do I miss the WSM, yes I will this weekend when I have to cook 2 rounds of food when the WSM took 1. However, I find I enjoy cooking more with the Kettle as its easier to get the results I want

 

[Tim-wannabe-smoker]

I purchased the SnS when it first came out. Think I may be the only one on the internet that isn't a huge fan LOL. Minion method is just that and for the slow part I never seen an advantage of it. On the 22" kettles I just used baskets or rails prior to it coming out and never seen any real advantage to it. Keeping heat steady in Minnesota can be quite a challenge when temps can and will vary 20-30° during a cook. And living in the second windiest city in the US it really affects a cook. But during the summer when you want the wind to cool down it dies down.

Baskets either side minion method on kettle check.

But on the WSM with no wood smoke, the smoke is from the juices dripping on the hot coals and giving a unique flavor profile, WSM for the win.

Hard to insulate a kettle in the winter. Silicone jacket on the WSM goes a long ways. Lady I used to date and cook for used to call it a condom. She would complain about smoked meats and carcinogens but would grab food off the platter on my way in from the deck to the kitchen.

I eventually cheated with the WSM and run an ATC and keep rock solid temps. No matter what the wind or temps are and how much they change.

For searing the SnS takes a LOT of charcoal. You can snuff it out when done but that causes creosote buildup on the lid. Even if you scrape the large sheets off you get specks of it on your food eventually. Not a fan. I much prefer charcoal rails with a charcoal grate sitting on top with the meat right over it. Takes a lot less charcoal.

You can have my grillgrates when you pry them from my cold dead hands

WSM is great for stacking pork over things like no boil mac n cheese and doctored baked beans so the juices and flavors drop into them. Can't do that on a kettle.

But wings on the 22" kettle with a Vortex just can't be replicated on a WSM. Several keys to decent wings one is that the sauce has changed from the 70's and 80's. Butter has become expensive and many places cut down on the butter. Add more butter. And you will not find any carrots and ranch at my house for wings pfft! Blue cheese and celery the way the Anchor Bar started out with them.

Twice "baked" no more than 10 minutes somewhere between 5-10 after saucing and throwing back on

You can't do that on a WSM.

The right tool for the job. Not a fan of convergence. But if I had to limit myself to only one (shudder at the thought) it would be the 26" kettle. @Bill D-NC nailed it. I almost never use the WSM after getting the 26" kettle. Finally found a good use for the 22" SnS I place it near the wall of the 26" kettle and just dump a row of charcoal between it and the kettle wall.

Basically it is a snake without stacking it, the depth depends on how cold and windy it is. The SnS acts as a heat shield between the heat and food. You do enough of them you figure it out. I can normally run about 6 hours before I need to fill it again between the SnS and the kettle wall. It has become easier to to do than breaking out the WSM for most smokes. And obviously works well for grilling. Meat on a spinning stick is still the WSM or one of the 22" kettles.

As is evident from the last picture if you own and run a SnS long enough they will start to rust. Never filled it much, I pretty much just use it as a heat shield and help stack the snake.

Great points and beautiful cooks @Michael Iron Made my mouth water!

 

[Tim-wannabe-smoker]

Tim - You were up late writing this;-) Great write up. That SNS looks really nice. After coming back to charcoal cooking (thanks TVWBB) my first 2 long cooks were briskets on the kettle using a home made Bro-N-Sear. Keeping steady temps drove me crazy, but my cocoa / coffee rubbed briskets were out of the world fantastic! I then picket up a WSM cheap to flip. I decided to try it out before selling it and wound up keeping it for quite some time because with the water bowl it kept temp fantastic. It sat at about 250° and I did not have to touch it. With the WSM I now had a 3rd grill as I had a gasser, Performer, and now WSM (soon a 4th with a griddle). It's probably me, but I got fantastic smoke, but a lot of it was dirty. To get nice clean smoke I think it was about an hour from lighting the first few coals in a chimney using the minion method. I am just not the patient type, so as soon as the smoker hit temp I just put the meat on. When I moved I sold off the Performer, WSM, and griddle and bought a Masterbuilt Gravity 800. With the 800 it is up to temp rolling clean smoke in 10-15 minutes. I put chickens on either the rotisserie or beer can and start off at 250° for some smoke and end up at 475° for crispy skin while sitting inside watching TV. Smoking other things even easier. I really like the 800 but know it is not a "forever grill". I think when / if we move again or the grill eventually falls apart, I would go with a used kettle, Spider Viper, rotisserie ring, and Kettle Zone setup to give me the same functionality at the same or lower cost. If the Viper fit the SNS kettle it would be awesome. Guga does a great review and comparison of the SNS.

@Joe Anshien appreciate your comments and did review Guga's video and others before choosing the SNS Kettle over the Performer 22. I should mention a few other things to give more context for my comments. I do live in Central California where in the summer months it is 90-100+ everyday, so my WSM heat management issues were influenced by that, where the kettle has not been tested in that environment yet. Also I have a realtively confined area to keep all my BBQ stuff including supplies so space is a premium. I do still use an old Brinkman smoke-n-grill when I need extra capacity for low-n-slow cooking so that helps out now that the WSM is gone. As I look and listen to guys like you who cook alot and are creative, I realize their is still alot to learn in pursuit of the ultimate cook. However, I'm having fun learning and living along the way.

 

[Joe Anshien]

The fun thing about BBQing and smoking is all the ways there are to "skin the cat" and so many toys to play with. There is no 1 perfect grill or / and smoker for everyone. Some people like and have dozens of appliances and love tending fires, others want / need a more hands off approach. As I check out all the smoking and grilling videos it is amazing at how close all the great food comes out, no matter what device(s) were used. I would happily eat just about everything being made, and wouldn't care what it was made on. What is really nice is that at the end of all the playing around with our grills, we get to eat the results.

 

[EricV.]

I am not sure why people always want to consolidate their grills/smokers, if you have the space, regardless of how many times a year that it is being used, variety is still a great thing to have.

 

[Joe Anshien]

I am not sure why people always want to consolidate their grills/smokers, if you have the space, regardless of how many times a year that it is being used, variety is still a great thing to have.

Mainly due to space, clutter, necessity, maintenance, significant others;-) All my grilling stuff is on our back porch and we also eat out there almost every day when weather is OK. If I had more grills we would not be able to see off the porch. Also if / when I bite the dust I don't want to leave it to my wife to have to get rid of it all. I just pressure washed all the pollen and dirt off the porch and it is a royal PITA to move everything I do have. I don't want / need more stuff. Some folks like / don't mind having a yard full of stuff they barely use, some do. I guess it boils down to priorities and mindset.

 

[Kevin L (NKY)]

Surface area, example on a 18 WSM you actually have 2 18 inch grills running at the same time much nicer for parties and such.

 

[Tim-wannabe-smoker]

Surface area, example on a 18 WSM you actually have 2 18 inch grills running at the same time much nicer for parties and such.

Cooking surface is definately a strength of the WSM design

 

[Jim C in Denver]

WSM is a great smoker that, in a pinch, can be used as a meh grill.

Kettle is a great grill that, in a pinch, can be used as a meh smoker.

That's pretty much the difference.

If you want only one cooker that is both a solidly good grill and a solidly good smoker, TBH there are better options than a kettle or WSM.

Pellet grill, gravity feed charcoal, kamado. If you have to pick only between kettle and WSM, I'd pick 26 inch kettle. The extra space of the 26 is useful since you chew up a bunch of grate space with the indirect SnS zone.

 

[Joe Anshien]

WSM is a great smoker that, in a pinch, can be used as a meh grill.

Kettle is a great grill that, in a pinch, can be used as a meh smoker.

That's pretty much the difference.

If you want only one cooker that is both a solidly good grill and a solidly good smoker, TBH there are better options than a kettle or WSM.

Pellet grill, gravity feed charcoal, kamado. If you have to pick only between kettle and WSM, I'd pick 26 inch kettle. The extra space of the 26 is useful since you chew up a bunch of grate space with the indirect SnS zone.

I would have to sort of disagree. With a charcoal ring, diffuser, and rotisserie expander the kettle makes a great smoker. With the proper supports for a raised charcoal grate the WSM can make a great grill. Phil in Florence made a great video on the WSM modes

 

[Kevin L (NKY)]

Cooking surface is definately a strength of the WSM design

Correct the bigger thre WSM the more surfacd area you have to play with.
Or you can use the lower grate to catch dripping away from ash for making gravy or just keeping the smoker that much cleaner

 

[EricV.]

Mainly due to space, clutter, necessity, maintenance, significant others;-) All my grilling stuff is on our back porch and we also eat out there almost every day when weather is OK. If I had more grills we would not be able to see off the porch. Also if / when I bite the dust I don't want to leave it to my wife to have to get rid of it all. I just pressure washed all the pollen and dirt off the porch and it is a royal PITA to move everything I do have. I don't want / need more stuff. Some folks like / don't mind having a yard full of stuff they barely use, some do. I guess it boils down to priorities and mindset.

Easy solution, build a bigger porch, Lol!

 

[Tim-wannabe-smoker]

I would have to sort of disagree. With a charcoal ring, diffuser, and rotisserie expander the kettle makes a great smoker. With the proper supports for a raised charcoal grate the WSM can make a great grill. Phil in Florence made a great video on the WSM modes

Exactly right! With a charcoal ring and diffusor my Kettle cranks out product on par with my WSM, using less charcoal. WSM's biggest advantage is capacity. Instead of one huge turkey I wont finish, I can cook two

 

[DanHoo]

I am not sure why people always want to consolidate their grills/smokers, if you have the space, regardless of how many times a year that it is being used, variety is still a great thing to have.

I agree.

I use the WSK, BGE and the E330 often, yet it was nice to spin some chicken on the genny 1000 a few weeks ago.

The Performer is now just a prep cart, but I will use it for our next block party.

The only downside of not using a grill is it gets neglected, or moldy, or rusted and then becomes irrelevant. I'd rather sell or give away a grill that has life VS letting it rust away into oblivion.

 

[Jim C in Denver]

With a charcoal ring, diffuser, and rotisserie expander the kettle makes a great smoker.

Sure. But only if you buy all that gear to jerry rig your kettle. Which then isn't really a kettle any more. But even with that, it still isn't going to be as good as a WSM.

At Cajun Bandit, the kettle smoker conversion kit (charcoal ring, expansion ring, grate, diffuser) goes for $230. Just checked my local Craigslist. WSM plus kettle can be had for $125-150.

And sure, you can jerry rig your WSM into a charcoal grill. I've done that myself.

But WSM + kettle is better and cheaper than either jerry rig hybrid.

 

[Joe Anshien]

Easy solution, build a bigger porch, Lol!

Yah - I F***ed up. I should have made it 20x20 instead of 10x20.

 

[Bill D-NC]

With a charcoal ring, diffuser, and rotisserie expander the kettle makes a great smoker.

Sure. But only if you buy all that gear to jerry rig your kettle. Which then isn't really a kettle any more. But even with that, it still isn't going to be as good as a WSM.

At Cajun Bandit, the kettle smoker conversion kit (charcoal ring, expansion ring, grate, diffuser) goes for $230. Just checked my local Craigslist. WSM plus kettle can be had for $125-150.

And sure, you can jerry rig your WSM into a charcoal grill. I've done that myself.

But WSM + kettle is better and cheaper than either jerry rig hybrid.

Sorry Jim, but part of my point was that I do not want a WSM that I know I may pony use once or twice a year. You can call it jerry-rigged if you want. I prefer enhanced. My 26er is still a kettle, even when it has a Cajun Bandit roto ring on it.

Not sure about rigging a WSM to be a grill. I guess it's possible, but I'll be d@mned if my knees or my back could handle cooking burgers at 10 inches off the ground . . .





BD