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As a newbie, I have been reading with avid interest, many of the modifications to achieve longer cooks and greater capacity. Since the WSM appeals to a select high-end group, why hasn't Weber incorporated many of these suggestions. Seems to me, it would negate all the trouble folks take as well as making it a more popular product. Or could it be that Weber prefers to rest on its laurels.
 
I do think that Weber should make the charcoal grates without the gaps on the sides. That seems just plain lazy that they don't do something about that.

I also think the water pans should be bigger.

As far as pre-installed thermometers, I'm not sure about that one...unless they use quality-grade thermometers.

Most thermometers that come pre-installed in smokers and grills are crap and end up having to be replaced with commercial-grade ones anyway. If they did pre-mount commercial-grade thermometers in the WSM's, I'm sure the price would jump at least another $50.

I think they should make a bigger size WSM available. Make it the same diameter as the 22-1/2 kettle grill. That would be awesome!!
 
Hi Roy!

Welcome to Weber-Weber Land!

Not sure what you mean by modifications to make the burn times longer. There are NO mods needed to make burn times any longer. It is a matter of how you start and maintain your fire.

If you are talking about a larger water pan...that has nothing to do with extending burn times..that simply allows some of us old folks a chance to catch a nap by not having to fill the pan every few hours.

As for thermo's.....that is probably one improvement that could be made. Not to worry....Weber will think of something!

Of course, I have always wondered why the simple, inexpensive Polder is not the solution. All this talk about drilling holes and mounting, etc...just doesn't make a lick of sense to me. But, hey..that's just me! Everyone's a little different about these things.

Now, increasing capacity is a problem EVERY Q cooker will confront at some time....no matter what pit you are using. We just tend to get such great results that we start cooking more and more food. An easy solution is to simply buy another WSM!

One last thing..if Weber were to really make this thing THAT good...we wouldn't need this board!! And THAT would be a shame!
 
The truth is that the WSM is a niche product for Weber. It adds virtually nothing to the company bottom line when compared to the high-volume, profitable line of gas grills and charcoal kettles.

My suspicion is that the only reason the WSM is still in the product line-up is because someone within the company has a soft spot for it. Don't hold your breath hoping that Weber will make any investment in improving this product. Frankly, I'm just glad to know it will continue to be available during 2002.

Regards,
Chris
 
Rather, I see it as a failure on Weber's part to educate people on what real Q'ing is about as opposed to grilling. With the Weber brand name visibility, marketing has not taken advantage of this. Perhaps, the esteemed Dave Estrem from Weber , who posts here from time to time, can give us Weber's point of view.
 
Hey Roy!

Sorry, but I can't agree with you on this one. Why should Weber spend money on a product that has very limited appeal and very low margins?

How many people will you convince to cook ribs for 4-6 hours or a pork butt for 8-16 hours? Not many in this day and age!

They would do much better to keep promoting grilling and their accessories....keep coming out with new rubs and sauces and other things of that nature.

Now, if they were to make a strategic decision to go into the smoking market, then the marketing might of the company can be brought to bear.

But, until then....there is just not enough money in it for Weber.
 
I can see both points of view. Barbecue is clearly a hot food area right now, and Weber is not doing enough to capitalize on it. I'm seeing Brinkman, Charbroil, and Meco smokers showing up in stores where I've never seen a smoker before, so I think Weber is missing out on an opportunity here.

On the other hand, I can't blame them for bringing their manufacturing and marketing resources to bear on the most promising products, which are the gas grills and, to a lesser extent, the charcoal kettles. Weber's history is as a grilling company, not a "low and slow" barbecue company, so I understand their motivation.

Regards,
Chris
 
We should probably be thankful that Weber devotes resources to charcoal products, period. They are about the only mass-market outdoor cooker company that does; gas grills having taken over the market.

I think the other issue is that "low 'n slow" cookers are, at best, a niche product. If you look at the entire universe of foods that are commonly cooked outdoors, there are only a handful that really lend themselves to this kind of cooking: a few cuts of pork, a few cuts of beef, ribs, and fresh sausages.

Almost everything else, from seafood to better cuts of beef to better cuts of pork to poultry to veggies, really is better suited to cooking at grilling or roasting temperatures.

Rather than introduce additional standalone WSM products, Weber would probably better serve their market by introducing two smoker conversion kits: one for the 18.5 inch kettle and one for the 22.5 inch kettle. All you are really talking about is a center section with grates and water pan. It probably wouldn't be difficult to hit a $99 and $129 price point for the the two versions.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rocky:
[qb]I do think that Weber should make the charcoal grates without the gaps on the sides. That seems just plain lazy that they don't do something about that.

I also think the water pans should be bigger.
[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that, in both cases, those are off-the-shelf parts from other products. I believe that the charcoal grate is the cooking grate from one of the Smoky Joe products, minus the handles and the chrome plating. I believe that the water pan is the lid from the Smokey Joe minus the vent holes and handle.

Likewise, aren't the bottom and lid of the WSM the bottom kettle portion of the 18.5 inch kettle grill?
 
Hey Guys:

I'm not sure which issue to address first, and I won't claim to be a Weber spokeman. I came to work here because I really do love the products and the byproducts from using them. I was also sick of working for companies that were constantly getting bought out. Weber is family owned and operated by 12 of George Stephens 13 kids, and all of them are "salt of the earth" type people who love the company their dad built.

What Chris said in both posts is pretty much right on the money. Weber doesn't get much from the sale of the WSM. I talked to a dealer this weekend in my home town who had two WSMs in stock. I asked him if he sold many, and he said if he sells one - the other will sell right after cause of the buddy factor (a guy buys the WSM, makes some B.B.Q., his buddy eats some and has to have the WSM himself), this process can take a while to happen though - so many dealers don't carry it at all.

It is not made up from parts of an 18.5" kettle though. Take a look and you'll see they have almost nothing in common except the diameter. The WSM is a much heavier gauge metal too. Only the cooking grates are shared with the 18.5" One-Touch.

With regard to the gaps in the charcoal grate and the small water pan, these are most likely not going to change any time soon I'm afraid. Not so much because of laziness or disinterest, but more because the folks who use the WSM within Weber also use Weber charcoal which is too big to fall through the gaps, and the water pan is considered adequate. This is not to say that these ideas aren't good, but just that at this time they aren't likely to be focused on. My personal favorite mod is the thermometers mounted at each grate level.

Anyway, I doubt I added much insight beyond what Chris and Kevin already said. Hope my blathering makes some sense,

Weber Dave
 
How about making a Jumbo size WSM that has the 22-1/2" diameter (or bigger)? That would be awesome!!

I know I would sure buy one (or 2). : )

Maybe they could do it for a limited "anniversary" special model or something like that.
 
Rocky
If you want to solve the gap problem with the fire grate simply wire the fire ring to the grate in 3 or 4 spots. Center the ring on the grate so the it is centered over those gaps, cuts down on coals falling thru and makes handling the fire grate and ring easier.
Jim
 
Hi Jim,
I already had a piece of bar welded on each side to fill in the gaps. I was just referring to the fact that they shouldn't even be like that in the first place. The cooking grates are not like this and the charcoal grates from all the other Weber grills are not like this. So why do they have the charcoal grates like this in the WSM's? And why don't they just change the design at the plant to have them add those missing pieces of metal? Seems like a pretty simple thing for weber to do? To knowingly keep producing a charcoal grate that is missing these pieces seems quite rediculous.

I could also see if all the charcoal grates for all their grills were this way, but this is the only model with this flaw.

They have to weld the other pieces on the grate anyway, so why not just add the last ones to make the grate complete, instead of leaving the gaps?

Just because the people that work for weber use the larger Weber charcoal briquettes doesn't seem to be reason for not fixing the problem for the general public who is their main customer right?

You don't have to use Weber charcoal on the other model Weber grills, because the other models charcoal grates aren't missing the side pieces.

I'm not bitching, I am simply trying to understand any logic for them to knowingly keep putting out parts for the WSM that are not complete.

I am happy as can be with my charcoal grates after I had them welded to be the way they should have been in the first place. I was even happy to spend $20 to get this work done.
I would be even happier if weber would charge a little more for the WSM, but to include these charcoal grates in their complete form, not with gaps.

Cheers, I guess it really doesn't matter since I already have both of my WSM's and they have been modified to correct this problem. But, I am trying to prevent other people from having to go through this and spend more money.

Happy Q'n everybody!!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rocky:
[qb]How about making a Jumbo size WSM that has the 22-1/2" diameter (or bigger)? That would be awesome!![/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

22-1/2 inch is the way to go. Because of Weber's dominance of the market, this is a de facto standard size in the grilling industry. You wouldn't believe the accessories that are available.

Not only can you walk into any hardware store in the US and buy a replacement cooking grate, there are aftermarket companies that make all sorts of accessories (like bolt-on tables) to fit this size. Plus other companies like Kamado and Grand Hall make cookers in the 22.5 inch size so you have their range of accessories as well.

I just ordered absolutely the coolest water plan support for my 22.5 inch kettle smoker. Grand Hall makes it as an accessory for there Globe Chef gas kettle. It's a 21.5 inch enamelled cast iron "disc" that is a drop in replacement for the Weber cooking grate. The middle 18 inches is a round cast iron solid griddle. Around the circumference is a row of open slots which will provide airflow from the fire to the cooker portion of the kettle. It has two handles for easy removal.

Another very cool accessory is Weber's cast iron conversion grate for 22 inch kettles. It is a standard round hinged cooking grate with a 12 x 17 inch rectangular opening in the center. A removable cast iron grate drops into this opening. This thing improves grilling on a Weber dramatically. Let the cast iron preheat for 15 minutes over a 600 degree bed of coals and you get awesome grill marks.
 
Wow!! That sounds great. You should take some pictures of that baby. Post them on my msn site if you need a place to point your links to.
 
An easy thing for Weber to do would be to improve their instruction booklet so new users wouldn't have to use a hit-and-miss approach to cooking. The sooner they can produce good ribs, chicken, etc., the happier they'd be with the WSM. I own a semi-antique WSM and as far as I can remember, it only suggests adjusting the vents in a very nonspecific way to regulate temps. I got some good food from it a few times the first year after I bought it, mostly by luck, and then decided to sell it because I never knew if I was doing it "right."

It sat in my carport for 5 or 6 years (guess I didn't try hard enough to sell it) and I bought an electric smoker, which is a fine product and was OK, but somehow it didn't feel "right" and I didn't get any satisfaction out of it.

Then, I accidentally came across this fantastic (an understatement) web site and my life has changed forever! I dusted the old bullet off and the rest is history. I'm still learning, mind you, but I've turned out some finger-lickin' delicacies with the generous help of many of you....and NOT ONE failure, either.

Anyway, back to the instruction booklet....why can't Weber at least include a mention of the VWB site, since it's such an accolade to their product? It would help new users get up and running a lot faster and impress their friends.....the buddy system in action. I have a couple of friends who are on the verge of buying one right now.

Honestly, now, isn't making the modifications a part of the fun too?

Rita
 
Hey!!

Where'd Roy go??

LOL

Welcome to the club Roy! Not bad for your first 2 posts.........over 10 responses each.....very impressive.....and of course, always loaded with information!!
 
I'm still here Kevin. I'm still kinda shocked at the quantity/ quality of replies to my questions. What's LOL? Little Old Lady?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>from Webb; I think the other issue is that "low 'n slow" cookers are, at best, a niche product. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i mildly disagree.
Witness the raging enthusiasm for the "other lo-slo" ceramic cookers. "K", for instance can't keep up with orders such that customer service has take a back seat. It has driven potential customers like me away, looking for alternatives. Allow me to make a few observations.
1) If it wasn't for me accidently finding this website, I wouldn't have even considered the WSM. The wealth of information posted by Chris gives me enough confidence as a newbie. Plus, I know if I run into a problem, the good folks on this board are here ready to help.
2) I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Today, I visited two Barbecue Galore stores looking for the WSM. I'm ready to buy. Problem: They didn't have any in stock and couldn't tell me when they'd get any. Answers like, " Nobody uses the WSM", or Why don't you get the Big Green Egg? It does the same thing anyway!" So if as Dave Estrem says, 12 of the 13 Stephens kids work at Weber, what do they do there? Obviously, they're not out there making sure their retailer is pushing and stocking their products.
3) Does anyone in the SF area know of another store carrying the WSM?
4) I agree that it would be nice to have a 22 1/2 diameter smoker. So, why is it so risky to re-tool and make a larger smoker. Make a few test pieces and sell it online if you have to for heavens sake. Too hell with the dumb retailers who don't know better.
4)Frankly, I'd rather not spend the $700+ for one of those ceramic jobs. The WSM is at an ideal price point with room to spare for upgrades.
5)Before a baby learns to walk, he/she has to crawl. I'm hoping someone at Weber sees the light.
I'm just frustrated at not being able to find one for sale locally. I'm leery about ordering on-line and receiving damaged goods. I'll then have to pay for shipping it back.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roy C:
[qb]i mildly disagree.
Witness the raging enthusiasm for the "other lo-slo" ceramic cookers. "K", for instance can't keep up with orders such that customer service has take a back seat. It has driven potential customers like me away, looking for alternatives. [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's more a function of lack of production on the part of the concrete cooker folk than any sizeable demand.

My brother in law got a Big Green Egg years ago and it always looked like a massive pain in the butt to me. Fire tending and ash removal was unacceptably tedious. It cracked the first time he used it, etc. Having said that, those cookers are used for grilling and roasting as much as for lower temp cooking -- something the WSM is not ideally suited for.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[qb]I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Today, I visited two Barbecue Galore stores looking for the WSM. I'm ready to buy. Problem: They didn't have any in stock and couldn't tell me when they'd get any. [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that tells you right there that's it's not Weber's biggest selling product. I bet that BBQ Galore had plenty of kettle grills and gas grills in stock!

Here's the reason: Most people don't want two cookers on their patio. The smoker market will always be limited by the fact that they usually aren't terribly convenient for grilling and grilling comprises a huge majority of outdoor cooking -- a couple of steaks, some burgers, a pork chop, etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[qb]I agree that it would be nice to have a 22 1/2 diameter smoker. So, why is it so risky to re-tool and make a larger smoker. [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They would really only have to tool one piece: a 22 inch center section about 12 - 14 inches tall. They already have this exact piece in their rotisserie kit -- they just didn't do it quite right. The bottom lip should fit over the kettle bottom just like a kettle lid and the top lip should be shaped like the top of the kettle bottom so the lid fits properly. The only aggravating thing about my recent conversion project was re-engineering those lips.

Weber could make it SO easy. One center section, two cooking grates, and an 18 inch cake pan is all you need. If they can't hit a $99 price point, they've got rocks in their head!

For a few bucks more than a WSM, you get a 22-inch kettle grill AND the conversion kit for a 22 inch water smoker with 800 sq. in. of cooking surface.

Heck, do it with an 8 inch center section and one cooking grate for $75. Most people could live with 400 sq inches of cooking surface.

To me, it's the perfect multi-purpose backyard cooker. 75% of the time, I use the normal kettle grill configuration. When I want true indirect heat for high-temp roasting or for low 'n slow cooking, I slap the center section on.

I've discovered a few more useful configurations. I grilled hot dogs and toasted buns the other night on a grate about 12 inches above the fire. Perfection. You could leave the dogs on the grill long enough to really grill them nicely without burning them up. And toasting the buttered buns left beautiful grill marks, perfectly golden toasting, and no charred bits.

It's also perfect for roast chicken on the rotisserie. Take the water pan out and the spit sits 18 inches above the direct heat of the coals. Hmmm....come to think of it, I wonder where I put that recipe for gyro meat?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roy C:
[qb]What's LOL?[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL = Laugh Out Loud

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[qb]2) I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Today, I visited two Barbecue Galore stores looking for the WSM. I'm ready to buy. Problem: They didn't have any in stock and couldn't tell me when they'd get any. Answers like, " Nobody uses the WSM", or Why don't you get the Big Green Egg? It does the same thing anyway!" So if as Dave Estrem says, 12 of the 13 Stephens kids work at Weber, what do they do there? Obviously, they're not out there making sure their retailer is pushing and stocking their products.[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't want to say anything bad about Barbeques Galore--that's where I bought my WSM back in 1997 and I still buy supplies from them. The "problem" with them is that they're not much of a Weber store. They usually have the WSM on the sales floor along with 2 gas grills and a couple of kettle grills, plus Weber accessories. The bulk of the display is their own line of Australian-built gas grills, plus high-end built-in grills, really low end gas grills, a bunch of low-end smokers, and the high-end Big Green Egg. I've watched the salepeople steer customers away from the WSM toward the BGE. Why? I think it's profit for the dealer and commission for the salesman. Just my opinion.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[qb]3) Does anyone in the SF area know of another store carrying the WSM?[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I live in San Jose and I sure don't. There are many Barbeques Galore stores in the Bay Area, especially in the South Bay--Palo Alto, Campbell, Cupertino, San Jose. I'd get on their Website, find the phone numbers, and give the stores a call to see if anyone has it in stock, then drive to get it or have them send it over to a store near you.

Regards,
Chris
 
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