water vs no water


 
R

Ron Hunter

TVWBB Member
I have become very comfortable doing overnite butts on the WSM. My last smoke around Christmas was the 1st time I smoked 4 butts at one time (approx 37-38lbs, bone in). Temp at nite was in the low fortys and wet. This was also the coldest I have smoked in.

I used the MM for the charcoal and started it with 30 briq. Also used the Brinkman pan with water. The total cook time was about 4-5 hours longer than I expected and I used twice the amount of Kingsford.

I expected some increase in fuel because of the the lower temps 40 degrees vs 65- 85 degrees at night and also almost twice the amount of meat I ever cooked. The lid temp never went above 200 until the top two butts were completed and removed. Almost immediately, the lid temp jumped to 230 and never went below. The vents were always open 100%.

Saturday nite, I will put about the same weight of butts in the smoker. This time, I am going to try one of the waterless methods. I'll foil the Brinkman and the weber pan and place the weber in the Brinkman. Not certain if there should be some kind of spacer separating the pan rims? Your thoughts?

Anyway -- nothing was wrong with the Christmas cook. The meat was great!! But was my experience normal for a cold night cook - that much fuel and time increase? I can't really compare it to my previous cooks because I'd never cooked more than 2 together. Also the overnight cooks were in much warmer weather.

Without water, I plan to use the MM, use 40 briqs to start. Do you think I'll still have to add more briqs? I'm going to try to maintain a lid temp range of 280 - 300.

Since this will be my first no water cook - am I correct in my assumptions? Am I asking for trouble based on 1st time waterless and only the second time to have that much meat in the smoker?

Thank you for your comments.
 
If you are going waterless, I would reduce the amount of lit that you use to get it going. I think 40 would be too much.

Also, I run hotter on the bottom than the top with my set up, so don't assume that the top will get done first.
 
Agreed. The only time I use that many is if I'm really not looking for a slower come-up. Generally I use 1/3 that amount (I cook with a single empty foiled pan).

4 butts shouldn't take all that much longer but weather certainly could have been a factor. Very cold butts--and two more than 'usual'--could have been a factor, especially in colder weather, as could be water temp. Anything less than scalding water put in the pan--again, especially during cold weather, and especially especial were the butts fridge-cold--could have been a factor as well. Combine two or more issues and a longer cook with more fuel seems likely.
 
I do take my butts from the fridge and apply the rub just before putting them in the WSM. I keep reading about the longer the meat takes to get up to 140, the better the smoke ring. Doing it this way, I've been very pleased with the smoke flavor. Usually just use cherry - may add a little hickory or pecan this time.

So in moderate wind, temps (night mid-40s) shooting for a temp of 280-300 at the lid, using 20 or so briq.s to light - and a waterless pan - how long do you think it should take vs the 2 pans?

If I start the actual smoking process at 10 p.m. - I believe the 1st butts should be ready to remove at approx 12 - 1 next day? BTW - all my butts are in the 8 - 10 lb range.

Do you think that just using the single pan causes a higher temp at the lower grate? It seems obvious that it could since there is not an air barrier.

BTW - I really appreciate the help you experienced smokers give us newbies. Without you, I never would have invested in the WSM and started making real bbq. Heck - I want another one now.

Thanks again!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ron Hunter:
I do take my butts from the fridge and apply the rub just before putting them in the WSM. I keep reading about the longer the meat takes to get up to 140, the better the smoke ring. Doing it this way, I've been very pleased with the smoke flavor. Usually just use cherry - may add a little hickory or pecan this time.

Do you think that just using the single pan causes a higher temp at the lower grate? It seems obvious that it could since there is not an air barrier.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ron, I usually fire 3 spots in the charcoal with a hand held propane torch. But when I do light some briqs, I use between 10-15 lit to go on top of the unlit for single Butt/Brisket cooks. That said when it's really hot out, summer I go with 8-10. With no water the WSM comes up to temp alot faster, since you don't have to heat up all that water and keep it hot. 4 Butts is a big heat sink in itself. The Pecan/Cherry is a good combo, I use it often. Same as you, I pull the butts out of the fridge. I coat them with wosty sauce, then the rub, and on the WSM they go.
I use a single WSM pan with foil. I leave about a 1-1.5" gap between the foil and the inside bottom of the pan, no problem with high heat on the bottom grate. Been using this method for 5 years now. I don't use the bottom grate too often, mostly for beans or when doing briskets for the guys out at work.
 
I do the same: take the meat out then rub while the little pile for the Minion start is just getting going.

I can't really answer your question on the one- vs. two-pan scenario as I have never cooked with two pans. Someone else here has perhaps made that comparison.

If the ambient temps are in the 40s you can expect a somewhat longer come-up than were the temps higher. I like that (for smokering) but you can add a bit more air to the intake if you wish to cut the time. In my perspective (and I think David and Bryan would share this), since one loses the heat sink capability of water, sand or ceramic by going with an empty pan, it's important not to overdo the heat at the beginning because, like a 'normal' Minion start with a heat sink, one wants to catch temps on the way up, not get the cooker going so hard one then has to deal with bringing temps down. This is easier with cool ambient temps and with a lot of cold meat but it's something to be mindful of. (In Florida, for daytime cooks, I have to be especially careful as high ambient temps and direct sun can make overshooting fairly easy.)

I highly recommend a windblock if doing an overnighter especially since also with no heat sink (except the meat), it is easier for the temps to creep up if you set your vents during, say, no wind, and then an hour after you're in bed a steady breeze arrives heading straight into an opened vent.

A single pan has always caused a higher temp at the lower grate for me--but it is not something I concern myself with if cooking butts. (For some other meats I'll rotate during the cook.)

For me, butts at your target temps take a bit more than an hour/lb iirc. Some time probably needs to be added in your case because of it being 4 butts (I do 2 mostly, one upper, one lower), and for your cooler ambient conditions.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
In my perspective (and I think David and Bryan would share this), since one loses the heat sink capability of water, sand or ceramic by going with an empty pan, it's important not to overdo the heat at the beginning because, like a 'normal' Minion start with a heat sink, one wants to catch temps on the way up, not get the cooker going so hard one then has to deal with bringing temps down. This is easier with cool ambient temps and with a lot of cold meat but it's something to be mindful of. (In Florida, for daytime cooks, I have to be especially careful as high ambient temps and direct sun can make overshooting fairly easy.)

I highly recommend a windblock if doing an overnighter especially since also with no heat sink (except the meat), it is easier for the temps to creep up if you set your vents during, say, no wind, and then an hour after you're in bed a steady breeze arrives heading straight into an opened vent.

For me, butts at your target temps take a bit more than an hour/lb iirc. Some time probably needs to be added in your case because of it being 4 butts (I do 2 mostly, one upper, one lower), and for your cooler ambient conditions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, agree 100% Figure about 1 hr 15 min at those temps, I guess a xtra hr for the 4 Butts. As Kevin said with a empty pan and you overshoot, you'll play He!! getting the temp back down.
Wind block/break great idea if your going to sleep.
 
I tried smoking chicken with no water in the pan. I covered the pan with foil.

The chicken came out tasting fine, but instead of the golden brown I've grown accustomed to, it was a nasty black. My guess is that the fat dripping onto the pan made lots of black, sooty smoke. I'm not inclined to try it this way again.

Feedback?
Jeff
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff Wildrick:
I tried smoking chicken with no water in the pan. I covered the pan with foil.

The chicken came out tasting fine, but instead of the golden brown I've grown accustomed to, it was a nasty black. My guess is that the fat dripping onto the pan made lots of black, sooty smoke. I'm not inclined to try it this way
again.

Feedback?
Jeff </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What wood did you use and how much? How much chicken were you smoking? If you used more than 3 small pieces of wood, that may have been the problem. Going waterless doesn't necessarily mean black chicken
 
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