Vexed by the Billows


 
M

Mike-MN

New member
Hi All,

Occasional visitor, first-time poster to the forums here. I've tried with somewhat mixed success to use the Billows/Signals combo on my 18" WSM . Here's a quick recap:

Smoker metup: Billows port on lowest of three holes on one vent (tape on others, no dogbowl). Manual damper valve installed on Billows underside set at 50%, top vent at 1/8. Non-Billows lower vents closed.

1. Attempt #1 - 2.5 pork tenderloins. Fired with standard method, waited until coals all grey, assembled smoker with filled water pan. Loaded first (largest) tenderloin at 6:03, then attempted to have Billows control at 225F. Held at 219F (vs 225F setpoint), then opened top vent to ~1/3, overshot to 230F. Added other loins at 6:19, Billows stabilized at 220-221 again.
1711315402375.png

2. Attempt #2 - 3 racks ribs with 3-2-1 method. Fired ~1/2+ chimney as recommended by Thermoworks. Full charcoal chamber, made plateau with center dimple. Mounted temp probe on underside of top grate at centerline since racks took up full area of top grate. Filled H2O pan with hot water. Billows settled and held temps well at initial 190F setpoint, held decently well at second-step 225F setpoint (but with some swings), but during third step could not hold 225F. Dropped to 211 (at 6:09), recovered and overshot to 240F. When tried to crank up to 250F at end to finish ribs it was unable to, so had to finish in oven.
1711316518614.png

3. Attempt #3: two racks BRITU ribs. Top vent at 1/8, despite the recipe calling for top vent fully open. Held 225F, but no smoke from top vent at all during cook. After ~2.5hrs when time came to crank up to 265F, couldn't get above 250 even with playing with vents. Added 1/2 chimney new coals, rose to 265 but could not hold, dropped continuously to 248. Removed Billows and temp increased to finish cook. Unclear why Billows could not hold even with new coals.

4. Attempt #4: three rack BRITU ribs. Ran 235-240C manually with standard method without issues. Put billows on ~1:00 to crank up to 275F but was unable to go above 225F even with fan running continously. Pulled off and finished manually (had to add 1/2 chimney of coals; still couldn't get to 275F but chalked that up to a cold windy day).
1711317221686.png

So after four attempts I am still struggling to get the Billows system to work stably. My questions for any users with good luck out there:

1. I am assuming I should use Billows in conjunction with the charcoal chamber ring? Or does that block to oxygen injection and you should just use a pile of coals?

2. Is it typical for Billows to stabilize ~5° below setpoint? if I want to nudge it up is it better to adjust the billows damper valve, the top smoker vent, or increase setpoint in app?

3. My experience so far is it performs stably at 225F or below but struggles at 250F or higher. Is this a general observation with this setup?

4. Is it capable of reliably increasing temps from lower to higher within-cook, or is it better to run hot, then drop down and hold a single temp?

I like the concept of the system to untether myself from adjusting the smoker but frankly it's caused me more stress so far with it than without it. This seems at odds with the experience many of you have had but I'm not able to find a stable process. Thank very much for any insight or detail on your successful setup/process you can provide

Cheers,
Mike
 
I have a billows and a smoke X4 and use it for temperature "insurance" ( a safety net ) vs Temperature control.

I've not used it on a WSM. I've used it on my large BGE and once on the WSK.

I set it all up but leave the fan unplugged until temps stabilize. At that point I know I have the intake and exhaust vents set correctly. After the meat is on and temp is again stable I plug in the billows and set the temp 5 degrees under my target pit temp.

If temp goes over it will alarm.

If temp drops, the billows will turn on to maintain the temp.

So, not alot of help with your questions, but that's how I use the billows.
 
If you are cooking with a full pan of water, it will be hard to get the cooker above 250 no matter what. Even if you run full wide open. So you really don’t want/need to use the Billows to keep the temp up high in that scenario.

Try cooking with zero water and a good amount of lit charcoal. Top vent 1/8th open.

Then see if the billows can maintain 225, 250 and 275.
 
Bob Bailey said:
If you're worried about 5 degrees, you're chasing ghosts.
Click to expand...
Ha! Indeed - I'm sure this isn't some top of the line closed loop controller. And as far as outcomes on food is concerned I'm sure +/-10 or 15 is probably fine. Just curious for calibration what general experience is.

Thanks
 
Not sure I can help, don’t have a WSM. Use Billows/Signals on my drum (and occasionally kettle) so fwiw:
#2: I’m wondering if your delta is more an issue with pit probe placement? I’ve never tried placing probe under grate. Either way, I agree with Bob, 5F is nothing.
#3: Try opening the Billows inlet baffle (recommend if you don’t have one) a bit. Also, check for air leaks. On my Billows I use 3/4” nipple rather than leaky tape & spring. I rarely use a water pan above 250F, agree with JimC ditch the water to go high.
#4: I’ve had better luck going low to high than the other way around, especially with a ‘leaky’ pit. The Billows puts out plenty of air and stokes the fire quickly with hardly any overshoot. Going the other way is problematic, as the fan’s only option is to turn off. If you must go high to low, be sure to shut down the Billows inlet baffle as there’s not much restriction past even an inert fan. Just don’t forget to open it again! (Ask me how I know🫣).

Hope this helps!
 
DanHoo said:
I have a billows and a smoke X4 and use it for temperature "insurance" ( a safety net ) vs Temperature control.

I've not used it on a WSM. I've used it on my large BGE and once on the WSK.

I set it all up but leave the fan unplugged until temps stabilize. At that point I know I have the intake and exhaust vents set correctly. After the meat is on and temp is again stable I plug in the billows and set the temp 5 degrees under my target pit temp.

If temp goes over it will alarm.

If temp drops, the billows will turn on to maintain the temp.

So, not alot of help with your questions, but that's how I use the bill
Jim C in Denver said:
If you are cooking with a full pan of water, it will be hard to get the cooker above 250 no matter what. Even if you run full wide open. So you really don’t want/need to use the Billows to keep the temp up high in that scenario.

Try cooking with zero water and a good amount of lit charcoal. Top vent 1/8th open.

Then see if the billows can maintain 225, 250 and 275.
Click to expand...
Thanks for both these replies.

@JimC - that'a a good suggestion. I tend, as an occasional smoker, to adhere to recipes pretty closely, so I've sorta blindly followed using the water pan in many of my cooks. I've had good luck doing pork butts without water but haven't played with ribs without it. I'll give that a try next time. Cheers
Click to expand...
 
Fraser said:
Not sure I can help, don’t have a WSM. Use Billows/Signals on my drum (and occasionally kettle) so fwiw:
#2: I’m wondering if your delta is more an issue with pit probe placement? I’ve never tried placing probe under grate. Either way, I agree with Bob, 5F is nothing.
#3: Try opening the Billows inlet baffle (recommend if you don’t have one) a bit. Also, check for air leaks. On my Billows I use 3/4” nipple rather than leaky tape & spring. I rarely use a water pan above 250F, agree with JimC ditch the water to go high.
#4: I’ve had better luck going low to high than the other way around, especially with a ‘leaky’ pit. The Billows puts out plenty of air and stokes the fire quickly with hardly any overshoot. Going the other way is problematic, as the fan’s only option is to turn off. If you must go high to low, be sure to shut down the Billows inlet baffle as there’s not much restriction past even an inert fan. Just don’t forget to open it again! (Ask me how I know🫣).

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Hi Fraser - thanks for the advice.

On #3 - OK two out of two agree >250 = no pan. Good. I do have the baffle. For the nipple, would you mind describing that a bit more? Wondering how to mate the rectangular end of the billows to a round nipple. Something like this product? https://www.humphreysbbq.com/products/the-rigid-billows-mount

#4 - Ha, sounds like something I'd do. May I ask does it matter whether you use the charcoal chamber ring when using the billows or not? Just wondered if it worked better blowing the air directly on the coals rather than baffling it with the ring wall.

Cheers
 
Take the baffle off Billows. It’s not needed and adds restriction. Run that puppy wide open.

I have a ton of successful cooks with Billows without issue. Overshooting temp and trying to bring back down isn’t exactly easy but certainly doable (I just unplug Billows until temps come down).
 
@JimC - that'a a good suggestion. I tend, as an occasional smoker, to adhere to recipes pretty closely, so I've sorta blindly followed using the water pan in many of my cooks.

It is an OK idea to use a little bit of water during a smoke. Adds some moisture, and smoke (and therefore smoke flavor) sticks better to moist surfaces. You can get the same effect effect by spritzing or putting a small pan of water somewhere in the cook chamber.

But the main purpose of the huge water pan in the WSM 18 is to act as a very crude and thermally inefficient temperature restricter. It takes a ton of BTUs to heat 10 quarts of water up to boiling and then tons more to convert the boiling water into steam. And that boiling water/steam can never get hotter than 212F (at sea level). So cooking with a big full water pan is like driving the car with your foot on the brake. No matter how big you build the fire, the temp still won't go up very high.

Because you are using the Billows, you no longer need the big water for temperature regulation. So you can ditch most or all of the water and let the fan do the work. Without the water brake, the Billows should be able to regulate temps up/down more precisely. And it should be able to go up to the 275F range easily. Also, your charcoal will last a lot longer without wasting all those BTUs on water/steam conversion.

I use the charcoal ring with no problem. The fire will tend to burn more/faster where the blower is. As the coals die down later in the cook, I will rake the remaining coals over towards the blower to keep them burning. I also put new coals right by the blower to get them going. I think the Billows is great -- especially for improving sleep quality on overnight cooks.
 
Last edited:
Mike-MN said:
Hi Fraser - thanks for the advice.

On #3 - OK two out of two agree >250 = no pan. Good. I do have the baffle. For the nipple, would you mind describing that a bit more? Wondering how to mate the rectangular end of the billows to a round nipple. Something like this product? https://www.humphreysbbq.com/products/the-rigid-billows-mount

#4 - Ha, sounds like something I'd do. May I ask does it matter whether you use the charcoal chamber ring when using the billows or not? Just wondered if it worked better blowing the air directly on the coals rather than baffling it with the ring wall.

Cheers
Click to expand...
I bought the 3/4” adapter from ThermoWorks https://www.thermoworks.com/billows-mounting-kit/. It attaches to a 3/4” pipe nipple (like https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southland-3-4-in-x-2-in-Black-Steel-Nipple-584-020HN/100156408) on the pit. I drilled mine using a step drill bit (slightly snug so the nipple threads into the 1” hole) and secured both sides with conduit locknuts https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-3-4-in-Rigid-Conduit-Locknuts-4-Pack-26197/100111071. A dab of JBWeld makes it airtight.
IMG_0693.jpeg
Shown is the Billows attached. In this setup I’m using a 90 elbow simply for ground clearance but not necessary; just use a straight coupler (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southla...PT-x-FPT-Coupling-Fitting-521-204HN/100019280) if you have room. I use the same setup on the Kettle, makes it easy to attach Billows to either pit. Also note the baffle (https://www.thermoworks.com/tx-1609x-bd/) set 1/2 open for higher temps (>250F). Since there’s so much blow-by even with fan off/unplugged, I close this damper when going from high temp to low.
As far as the charcoal chamber ring I cannot advise (since I don’t have a WSM) but my guess is run without it. You want the fan blowing directly onto the coal bed. Experiment, it might work fine either way.
The main takeaway is to make sure to seal off any ‘air leaks’; close all bottom vents, run the top vent slightly open as JimC says and let Billows run the airflow.
EDIT: Oops, wrong pic! This pic shows damper fully closed, not 1/2 open. My bad!
 
I've used the Billows plenty of times with the Smoke X4 with great success - but not on the WSM. I use it on my OKJ Bronco drum smoker. I usually just use it for overnight cooks. It works great, I love it. There's also a battery available which is very convenient.

I agree fully with DanHoo's post above.

I really like Fraser's post too, with the adaptors.

Re the damper, the Billows damper is not for limiting intake while the fan is on. It's for limiting intake when the fan is off. You want to have that ability to keep the temp from zooming too high once the cooker temp reaches the wanted set temp and the fan turns itself off. In other words, as DanHoo suggests, get the temp stabilized at or just under your desired temp using the damper, then turn on the billows. Watch if for a few mins to make sure it's working perfectly.

Good luck
 
Thank you all so much for taking the time to impart your wisdom and experience on this - really appreciate it!

@TimA - thanks, I'll try that the next time I use it

@JimC - great explanation. Intuitive once you think about it that way - didn't expect so much thermal load to be take up by the water once it was boiling, but It makes sense given the large thermal mass. I've done a number of pork butts without water and they turned out great (I actually like using the crackling sound and its stoppage as a guage of progress), so sounds like there is no reason to fear it for ribs. Funny that the BRITU recipe by MIke Scrutchfield emphasizes keeping the water pan topped off - I guess in that case it's for regulation which to your point is unnecessary with the Billows.

@Fraser - very cool setup. Thanks so much for the links to the products. The straight coupler should work fine for the normal WSM clearance. I have a background in vacuum systems for thin film deposition so I appreciate leak checking and controlled gas introduction :). Do you do anything special around the main door with a gasket or something similar? Seems like the edges around that has more leak potential that anywhere else on the system...

@Mark_E - got it. Make the billows damper your primary throttle then fix it there with the billows. That's a much better approach that the stabilize it with the normal vents, hook up the billows, then pray you've guessed right on the damper position.

Thanks everyone - hope you all have a great bbq season (not that it ever ends, just a bit trickier here in Minnesota!)
 
Funny that the BRITU recipe by MIke Scrutchfield emphasizes keeping the water pan topped off - I guess in that case it's for regulation which to your point is unnecessary with the Billows.

Mike's recipe calls for building a very big/hot fire, but then cooking at 225F. If you do it that way, you're gonna need many many gallons of water to heavily suppress the BTUs coming from that big fire.

Mike says to start with 10-14 pounds of charcoal fully lit. So that's like three full chimneys. Yikes!! Polar opposite of a Minion, standard or snake low/slow fire where there's only a limited number of coals lit at any one time. If you are doing a Minion burn on a hot day, you might start cooking with only 10 coals lit. Maybe the magic of Mike's recipe is that you basically cook over a huge pot of constantly refilled boiling water. But that's not the typical way to do low/slow.

FYI, the amount of energy needed to convert water into steam is quite large. It would take about 160 BTUs to get one pint of cool tap water to boil. It then takes 970 BTUs to turn one pint of boiling water into steam.
 
Your vent settings are what I use for a really low and slow cook with the Billows (150 to 180). I'd open up the top more and see if you run better that way. I find the billows works best when it's not struggling either way. I like the damper but the reason I got it was mostly to be able to do really low temps and to be able to open up the top vent more. Also at 225 it seems like the ash doesn't want to fall through the grates as easily, especially in a moist environment so towards the end of a cook you may have ash buildup restricting your airflow. You might tap the leg of the WSM to cause enough vibration for it fall through.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top