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Tired of running multiple water filter systems


 
LMichaels said:
So, what does this translate to in words a mortal can understand? :D Totally lost me.
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Sorry - I’m a geeky mechanical engineer that managed municipal and industrial water systems in a past life…

Check the pressure of the tank when the RO is “full” - this will be your shutoff pressure


Let’s check if your bladders are leaking or ruptured:

Shutoff water supply to RO and open drinking faucet until it stops

Open shrader valve with fingernail or screwdriver - if any water comes out then bladder is bad and tank needs replacement

If just air, then set bladder pressure to 5psi (if faucet is 2.31ft above schrader valve add 1psi - and pump to 6psi)


Test and report back
 
R Chin said:
Sorry - I’m a geeky mechanical engineer that managed municipal and industrial water systems in a past life…

Check the pressure of the tank when the RO is “full” - this will be your shutoff pressure


Let’s check if your bladders are leaking or ruptured:

Shutoff water supply to RO and open drinking faucet until it stops

Open shrader valve with fingernail or screwdriver - if any water comes out then bladder is bad and tank needs replacement

If just air, then set bladder pressure to 5psi (if faucet is 2.31ft above schrader valve add 1psi - and pump to 6psi)


Test and report back
Click to expand...
I did "over pressure" slightly yesterday and had to release some. No moisture even at full pressure. I think part of the issue is I have a long run using 1/4" OD line on a system originally designed to go under the sink but mine in basement and 20'+ away. Was talking to my buddy and he suggested even though the system is built with 1/4" to get some 3/8 and simply use reducers right where things hook up. So I have an order in for supplies from Amazon (since every home center here is out of those little fittings). So if it comes in time tomorrow I may give that a go
 
I meant to also add. When my buddy and I were talking about the issue today, he did note that when the pressure was low the system may have been able to put slightly more water in the tanks. So, the air pressure rose with slightly less air. But then we used a lot of water in the afternoon. Wife filled up her big jug she takes to work, I filled up 2 or 3 1 liter bottles, which he said likely drew the system pressure down in the bladders. I am also wondering if perhaps 33 PSI is the "shutoff" pressure of the control valve of the RO system itself? Because it seems awfully curious that the pressures settle in exactly where they were yesterday afternoon
 
LMichaels said:
I did "over pressure" slightly yesterday and had to release some. No moisture even at full pressure. I think part of the issue is I have a long run using 1/4" OD line on a system originally designed to go under the sink but mine in basement and 20'+ away. Was talking to my buddy and he suggested even though the system is built with 1/4" to get some 3/8 and simply use reducers right where things hook up. So I have an order in for supplies from Amazon (since every home center here is out of those little fittings). So if it comes in time tomorrow I may give that a go
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Yes you could upsize the tubing or place the tank(s) closer to your fixture with the greatest demand - ie drinking faucet
 
R Chin said:
Yes you could upsize the tubing or place the tank(s) closer to your fixture with the greatest demand - ie drinking faucet
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I thought about that. Issue is the tanks don't feed directly into the faucet they feed back to the RO control valve block. I also thought about relocating the entire system to just under the kitchen, but it's a maze of issues to overcome. It's an exposed basement so there is a big window on that wall, and an outdoor water spigot, and then both my beaker panels. All right where I'd need to mount the system :(
So upsizing the lines wins out for now
 
LMichaels said:
I meant to also add. When my buddy and I were talking about the issue today, he did note that when the pressure was low the system may have been able to put slightly more water in the tanks. So, the air pressure rose with slightly less air. But then we used a lot of water in the afternoon. Wife filled up her big jug she takes to work, I filled up 2 or 3 1 liter bottles, which he said likely drew the system pressure down in the bladders. I am also wondering if perhaps 33 PSI is the "shutoff" pressure of the control valve of the RO system itself? Because it seems awfully curious that the pressures settle in exactly where they were yesterday afternoon
Click to expand...
Most packaged residential systems are going to have membranes in the 5 to 10gal per day range - immediate demand will need to be supplied by your bladder tanks and made up with RO production in the 0.2 to 0.5 gallon per hour range
 
LMichaels said:
I thought about that. Issue is the tanks don't feed directly into the faucet they feed back to the RO control valve block. I also thought about relocating the entire system to just under the kitchen, but it's a maze of issues to overcome. It's an exposed basement so there is a big window on that wall, and an outdoor water spigot, and then both my beaker panels. All right where I'd need to mount the system :(
So upsizing the lines wins out for now
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I strapped a bladder tank under the sink between floor joists once…

RO system (filters, membrane and control valve) can be placed anywhere accessible for inspection and maintenance

I don’t understand “tanks feed back to RO control block”
 
R Chin said:
I strapped a bladder tank under the sink between floor joists once…

RO system (filters, membrane and control valve) can be placed anywhere accessible for inspection and maintenance

I don’t understand “tanks feed back to RO control block”
Click to expand...
In my old RO system the line to the faucet came off a T fitting on the tank. On this one the line from the tank line is goes back to the 4 way valve on the filter system. I guess another way I could handle this is to move one tank directly under the kitchen, out a T on it so the main feed line to the faucet is on that "T" which would maintain more pressure right under the faucet. Maybe I'm doing that first tomorrow if it does the job I'll just send all the stuff I ordered back to Amazon.
Stay tuned.
BTW? do the tanks have to be "upright" to work? Or can they be laid on their side so basically I could mount it up in the floor joists under the kitchen
 
Well, I just did a search and according to "AI" it can be done horizontally. So, BOOM! Relocation tomorrow AM right after coffee and breakfast. Idea being tank 1 pressurizes the main system tank 2 applies pressure directly under the faucets
 
LMichaels said:
Well, I just did a search and according to "AI" it can be done horizontally. So, BOOM! Relocation tomorrow AM right after coffee and breakfast. Idea being tank 1 pressurizes the main system tank 2 applies pressure directly under the faucets
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I think it’s just sort of like a “balloon” inside - I installed horizontally between joists and used plumbers tape strapped to adjacent joists. Make sure you have access to schrader valve for maintenance

Product lines are between ro package and fixtures

Place bladder tanks near fixtures - nearest tank will satisfy immediate demand at that fixture - other tanks will “makeup” demand by balancing pressure between tanks at slower rate
 
I will definitely report if this makes things flow better. I'd do it now but, the Cubs are on and they're putting a hurt on Washington Nationals (or as my grandson used to call them) "The Walgreens"
 
R Chin said:
I think it’s just sort of like a “balloon” inside - I installed horizontally between joists and used plumbers tape strapped to adjacent joists. Make sure you have access to schrader valve for maintenance

Product lines are between ro package and fixtures

Place bladder tanks near fixtures - nearest tank will satisfy immediate demand at that fixture - other tanks will “makeup” demand by balancing pressure between tanks at slower rate
Click to expand...
OK I just got done (though I've not run any new lines (i.e. 3/8") yet. I separated the tank, emptied both and set both tanks to 7psi empty with no water in them. And one is directly under the kitchen (though on the floor) as I did not have anything suitable to make a strap from to place it in the joists overhead (though if this works that will be the goal). It is plumbed a teeny bit wonky due to the more "temporary" nature of the arrangement. Also the secondary tank is supplying pressure directly under the fridge and the kitchen sink. It'll likely be another hour at least for them to fill and the system to stabilize. I'll test and report back here
 
OK, so I redid everything (still using 1/4" line as the 3/8" did not get here yet). As noted in previous post, I moved the tank, and ran the line from the filter system and the 1st tank over to it, and then up to the kitchen. The difference in flow rate and pressure is nothing short of incredible. I just filled 3 1 liter bottles for carbonation and the flow never went down. Amazing what a little "reserve pressure" can accomplish. My only issue is the fitting on top of the tank (it's a screw type plastic) with the plastic ferrule in it. Anyway it's got a teeny tiny drip barely enough to notice but enough that I know it's there and it's pissing me off. Especially because of all the grief I have to go through to replace the stupid thing
 
I used 3/8" line feeding the fridge's due to my RO system is in my basement along with my pressure tank. I have about 15' of line going to each fridge and it works flawlessly.
 
Ray J. said:
I used 3/8" line feeding the fridge's due to my RO system is in my basement along with my pressure tank. I have about 15' of line going to each fridge and it works flawlessly.
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I could replumb the whole thing with 3/8 (though the source filters and everything that receives the water are 1/4") so basically the longer portions would be plumbed 3/8" with reducers everywhere. Honestly I am weighing that out. But, the system seems to be working well. I ran my AM liter of water (start every AM drinking 1.5 liter of water). So, I ran the liter then 50 oz water right after for an extra large pot of coffee with no sign of slow down.
 
LMichaels said:
I could replumb the whole thing with 3/8 (though the source filters and everything that receives the water are 1/4") so basically the longer portions would be plumbed 3/8" with reducers everywhere. Honestly I am weighing that out. But, the system seems to be working well. I ran my AM liter of water (start every AM drinking 1.5 liter of water). So, I ran the liter then 50 oz water right after for an extra large pot of coffee with no sign of slow down.
Click to expand...
I should have been more clear, I adapted the 3/8" line from the 1/4" for the long run.
 
Ray J. said:
I should have been more clear, I adapted the 3/8" line from the 1/4" for the long run.
Click to expand...
OK, I figgered. I am considering doing the same. I could save the pressure in the tanks, bleed the lines down and replace all the long run 1/4" line(s) I guess. I have time before I'd need to return the stuff to Amazon so I will do some careful analysis on this.
 
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