Thermometers issues on new WSM's


 
Jason, You are experiencing nearly the same problem with your lid thermo, as I am.
I now have two low & slow cooks under my belt with the new WSM.
The issue is not just innacuracy, if it were consistantly off, say by 30 degrees low, or 10 degrees high, I could live with that. That is not the case, like you have noted, mine is all over the place.
I have an $8.00 El Cheapo thermometer, I drop its probe into one of the top vent damper holes.
And I have an El Cheapo Wall-Mart Remote Thermometer (the "Remote" function is only satisfactory if you consider less than 2 inches from the transmitter to be "Remote", otherwise it is reasonably accurate)
I have used both of these temp sensing devices for the last two years while learning to smoke on my Kettles, with a "Smokinator".
Both "El Cheapos" have proven quite reliable and consistent.
Now, the first time out with my new WSM, I was anticipating having some difficulty learning to control my temps, expecting it too run too hot! My goal was to settle it in, at a 250 dome temp. After 40 minutes, I started to worry while watching the OE lid temp, it was just not coming up to temp, it seemed to stall at 190-195. I had expected trouble with it running too hot on the first smoke, but I was getting the opposite.
So I broke out My trusty old "El Cheapos" to get a second (and third) opinion. Both indicated 245-250 (right where I wanted to be!) and the OE might have made 200 by this point, had I relied only on the OE lid therm, I was about to start opening all the dampers in an attempt to get the temp up!... 4 hours into the cook, the OE lid Thermo finally made it to about 210, while the el cheapos held steady at 245-250... 5.5 hours in, at the end of the cook, I panicked a little when I saw the lid therm suddenly was at 250?... Holy Cr** I thought, how did the temp spike so much?, then I checked the el cheapos, they were right at 245-250 holding just as steady as the first hour of the cook?....
Needless to say, I do not care if it will pass the boiling water test, I do not plan on smoking any water!...
It fails the BBQ Test, and fails it miserably, that is what counts.
As I have mentioned previously in this thread, I have both of My Weber Kettles equipped with Weber OE thermometers, that came from Genisis model gas grills, They have bezels just like the new WSM's and other than the 700 degree grilling scale, they are of the exact same construction, and probably came from the same supplier. They also have been proven to be innacurate, and inconsistant. Again, I could live with innacurate one way or the other if they were consistent! It is the inconsistancy that makes them unacceptable.
 
Yes sir, That is exactly how mine works as well.
As you said if it were off by a certain amount it would be easy to deal with. But, it is just all over the place.
I was going to keep an eye on it and see if anything changed over the next couple of cooks and collect more info to try to solve the problem.
Maybe I will call Weber to see if they will replace it in the off chance I might get a good one.
Otherwise I might look for an alternative replacement.
Or, just use the grate temps from my oven thermometer and Maverick and pretend the lid thermo isn't even there.

Too bad I guess, it looks good on there I think.
 
Jason, I am also considering calling Weber to request a replacement as well, in hopes of getting a good one.
I like the look and design of the OE thermometers with the chrome bezel around it, it gives a quality, finished look to the cooker. They look great, but they are a functional disaster.
Some others that have chimed in here, have indicated theirs operate acceptably.
Perhaps I am being to harsh about this without giving Weber a shot at a replacement.
The Weber thermometers on my Kettles were purchased on Ebay, perhaps they were seconds, or discards of some sort, that never had a chance of being accurate!.. (I actually have three of these grilling scale 700 degree versions of these thermometers, two are in use on my Kettles, only one of the three is reasonably accurate, and only a little erratic!)

If Tel-Tru would make a replacement to fit the OE bezel, I would buy three!

(are you listening Tel-Tru ?)

I just hate having such a nice looking item on my WSM, that does not operate as intended!...

On the lighter side, the WSM is fantastic, after only two cooks on it, I am very satisfied with it. Except that I still have to use after-market thermometers, sticking out of holes they were never intended for, in order to have a reasonable idea of what the actual inside temperture is!
 
Yup Corey, I think this would be the best way to go about it for now.
Post up here if you get a new one and let us know how it works. I'll probably call too at some point.

Also if you happen across a quality thermo that will fit the chrome, please let us know as well. I'll do the same.
 
Ok, I will now give the OE thermometer a little credit, as an outide air ambient temp indicator.
Here in the western part of Arizona, in the lower Colorado River Valley, Daytime highs have been in the tripple digits, today was about 109, just after sunset, my patio thermometer had cooled all the way to 105 degrees, the WSM is sitting idle on the patio (I ain't cooking in this heat!)and the OE lid Thermometer was exactly at 105. So it does have some redeeming value after all. (as long as it is over 100 and the WSM is not in direct sun)
 
Hey Corey,

I ended up having a pretty bad out of round condition with my cooker.

After getting replacments from Weber my lid thermo seems to be doing much better at staying linear with the grate probe.

read the whole story here if you like.

Thanks man.
 
Hey Guys
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... consider this: Thermometers give accurate readings for the location at which they are installed; different locations = different readings. ... ergo, a thermometer at the upper grate necessarily reads different than one on the lower grate, the vent in the lid, or installed as O.E. in the lid itself!
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The WSM was manufactured from 1981 until 2009 without a therm at all
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, yet they were operated very effectively, using primarily known vent settings
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Many eventually installed tru-temps in the lid, where the stock weber therm is on todays WSMs...that's what I did. I have since replaced the Tru-Temp on my 18 WSM with the new weber therm and bezel... it looks better & works the same!!!
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Remember, we're not baking where temps need to be precise; we're just tryin to smoke meat with a non-insulated, but, really cool, and, easy to use, set & forget WSM
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... ya don't have ta chase temps with a WSM, ya simply use doneness checks to know when the meat is ready
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... hope this helps a little, Cheers!
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Thanks for the tip Rondo.

I guess as new WSM users we sometimes make things harder than they really are or should be.

For instance if a recipe says 250* as a new Q'er I would be **** bent to keep the temp as close to that temp as possible. And then after the cook think "man I thought this was supposed to be fun and relaxing?".
This gets even more nutso when you have 2 or 3 thermo's to look at that are all reading differently. Talk about a one man circus....
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But actually the trouble that Corey is having, and the same problem I was having before getting my round sections was that the lid thermometer was not at all even close to linear with the grate temp. This was perplexing. Most people accept the fact that their lid thermo is ___* hotter or colder than the grate temp.
But ours were/are 20* hotter than the grate temp and then 20 mins later 10* colder than the grate temp. All the while the grate temp may have fluctuated by 5-10* and the lid temp swinging by 30* . Sometimes lid temp is 10*-20* 30* hotter than grate and sometimes 10* 20* 30* cooler than the grate. Now as a new Q'er your like "this is crazy man".

Experience finally shows you that if you just let it ride unless it is way out of whack everything will turn out fine and just be done sooner or later depending on how it all goes.

After a few cooks I am finally starting to catch on. The other night I did acouple of chickens and just set the vents at 25% open and let it ride. All was well. I did keep my eye on the Thermometers but I told myself not to touch anything. Knowing that if It got hot the chocken would be just fine. As a result I am getting more comfortable with how this thing cooks and its minor temp swings from time to time.

The cooker is so easy to use that it just seems like I should be doing more to get such good results. Learning that the best thing to do is just ignore it for the most part and check meat temps when it should be close.

It is a good feeling when this finally dawns on you.
 
It would be nice if Weber OE thermos had a calibration nut on the stem. An elcheapo Grill Care thermo from Wal-Mart is better than theirs.

I recently cooked at the Evergreen Eggfest and both the demo Eggs I was cooking on had thermos that were anywhere from 80-100* off. It was no big deal as I was cooking indirect, but people were asking me why I had the stem clips outside the Eggs-I checked the temps with my Thermopen and then had to show the new owners how to adjust their new dome thermos.
 
Concerning the therm, no complaints here since my OE wsm therm is only about 10 degrees off.

Regarding temp. variances, it stands to reason that when checking temps "all over the place", temps will be "all over the place". An empty smoker means less variance. A wsm full of cool meat means LOTS of variance. This is not a huge 1/4" thick offset, folks, but even with those, you need tuning plates to make one end equal the other.
 
Originally posted by Dave Russell:
A wsm full of cool meat means LOTS of variance.
Click to expand...

Your Telling Me!

Fathers Day I had cooked 3 racks of baby backs on the top grate.
I put another upside down top grate on top of that, full of wanna be MOINK Balls (haven't posted pics for certification yet).

The Grate/lid temps for the cook were:

2:30pm lid 215 / grate 265 (ribs had been on for 1/2hour. temp measured just befor adding the balls.
3:15 190/244 (thunderstorm,massive winds and downpour. canopy blew away but we caught up to it and replaced it over the WSM in a half closed up position just to stop rain from entering cooker. got soaked to the bone and had a good laugh.)

3:30 200/251 temps climbing again....phew.
4:00 205/267
4:30 210/274 sauced balls
5:00 190/249 took off balls
5:30 220/263
6:00 220/263
6:30 230/268 sauced ribs
7:00 250/272 took off done ribs


As you said the amount of meat definately affected the lid thermo.

I did expect the difference in the thermo's to be less than it was once the balls were removed though.
As you can see the differences were around 50 to 60 degrees with the balls on there. When the balls were off the difference only closed up to about 40 degrees until the 15 mins after saucing when the ribs were almost done.

Since I am still learning I assumed that this is all perfectly normal.

I just ignored the lid temp and used the grate probe as my guide for this cook and everything came out wonderful.

Then, I thought that if I did not have the grate probe and only had the lid thermo I would have shot for 250* and the grate temp would have actually been between 300 to 325 for alot of the cook.
I am not experienced enough to say for sure, but from what I have been reading on here everything would have been just fine and just gotten done sooner.

As I said before For someone completely new to smoking the difference in temps from lid to grates can be bothersome until they figure out that it is not that big a deal overall.

Many thanks to the experienced users out there who chime in time and time again rehashing the same topics and questions over and over so that each round of new comers can learn from you.

I am a bit more relaxed with each new smoke. This is from gaining a bit more experience each time and the fact that in the back of my mind I know theres a great place on the internet I can turn to if run into trouble or just have another one of those annoying "not again" newbie questions.

thanks again
 
I've got a newer WSM and the thermometer seemed to be pretty accurate when I first got it - based on using other thermometers stuck in the top vent holes. I've done some high heat cooking for chicken and also some really high heat cooking configured as a little black egg for steaks. I was thinking that maybe I messed the spring up inside by making it spin so hard to the right from using such high heat. The readings I get from the built in thermometer seem to be about 30* lower at 250* and 80* lower when I have it at 350*.
 
My thermometer came in at 214 degrees in boiling water. No complaints there.

After charting it for several cooks, and with at least 10 lbs of cold meat on the top rack, I've found the top gauge to be 30-35 low at the beginning of the cook, dropping down to 25 degrees or so low after about two hours, and then as little as 10 degrees low at five hours and beyond. And the more meat I have on the rack, the longer the equalization curve, but even then, it only stretched 90 minutes on a 13 hour multi-butt cook.
 
Not trying to stir the pot, but here goes:

The only way to get a accurate reading of any thermo in the WSM is without any meat or water in the pan!

As many have said before me, use one and stick with it. If temps are that important to one use a automatic pit controller for timing.

My factory thermo is within 10 deg of vent or grate temps after 2+ hrs of loading the meat and is dead on 212 in boiling water. If you put any thermo near the meat or the vent for that matter it is not going to be perfectly true until the meat has warmed up to cook temp.

My 2 cents, not trying to start any bs but.......

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A couple of things to consider when comparing lid to grate temperatures.

1)How much meat is on the grates? Is it signficantly blocking air flow? This could reduce the temperature reading in the top dome. If the meat is cold it will absorb the most of amount of energy (difference in temperature drives energy transfer).

2)Outside air conditions/wind. Your lid thermometer probe is not very long and is connected to a heat sink (the lid). There is no insulating materials separating the probe from the lid to protect against heat transfer. Since the probe is not long the temperature gradient from the surface of the lid to the end of the temperature probe becomes very significant. Most of the temprature gauges if tested in boiling water would probably read fairly accurately.

3) Thermometers stuck into the top vent are longer probes and are therefore not as affected by this heat sink (the lid). A lot of times the probe is not even touching the metal of the vent when it is stuck in quickly. Air is insulating at this point.
 
just my two penneth but would the position off the lid make any difference to lid temp variations ...just been looking at those thermal pictures and it appears nearer the door seems to be where the heat is. if the lid therm was above the door compared to 180 degree round the other side ...
 
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