The Great Rub Down !!!


 
S

Steve Petrone

TVWBB Platinum Member
Having been a proponent of homemade rubs, I thought I would do a Rub Off or Rub Down.
Well I cooked three butts in a piedmont pan set-up (two water pans 1/2 inch a part, dry, with foil cover). The cook went 18 hours at 225-250-265. I have a habit of leaving it alone when I get the temp in he ballpark.

Three Rubs:
Kevin Krugers Rub (with a small change)
Old Bay
Pizza Seasoning

Yes you read that right, a wonderful rub by KK, straight Old Bay (shame on me) and, my Pizza Seasoning I put on all my pizzas.

Conclusion: yes they were different but none stood out as exceptional! I am shocked. Perhaps my taste buds have failed me. The pizza butt went to quite a fan of bbq. The comment was,"Best ever".

So does all this conversation and experimenting I've done been mostly worthless???? This Rub Down would lead me to believe so.

Please understand I am NOT talking competition bbq here. Just backyard, what tastes good bbq. As I said I could taste differences but not to the extent I expected.

Anybody done a similar Rub Down?
 
Steve, your little experiment made me laugh. But you raise an interesting point. How many of the ingredients can you distinctly taste in anyone's BBQ rub? Of course with pulled pork, the ratio of meat to surface area (rub area) is minimal. You'd have to compare just the bark of your three samples to really taste some differences. Try again using ribs. I'm guessing the results will be quite different. But I have to ask: What inspired the use of pizza seasoning?!
 
Wow, not what I was hoping for when I saw this thread, but whatevski!

I did the same thing as you Steve when three racks of ribs, just to see how much different the ribs would be. Well, I did one with straight Lawry's Seasoned Salt, one with Texas BBQ Rub (my standard rub for everything from butts to aftershave) and one with a conglomerate of red pepper flake, garlic powder, onion powder, cumin, oregano, and thyme. None of them really stood out as that much different than then others, and I honestly think I like the Lawry's ones the best! But, I stick with TBR for my BBW at this point, I love that stuff!
 
Interesting subject!
I've also wondered about this, and I already know that my taste buds are not very refined.
If I drink wine, I don't get overtones of blah blah blah, it tastes good to me, or not.
Same goes for beer, bbq, etc.

Here in the St Louis area we love our pork steaks. My plan has been to cook several with different rubs from simple to complicated.
Now I know I must do this soon, and other taste testers will have to be involved too.
 
Gary, the answer is it was sitting there, it was not developed for bbq but, it IS good. It was out of left field. Paul Kirk says break the rules...this does.

I do not have a trained palate but I can taste nuances of flavor in wine-formerly in that business.

One other note. This Q was not seasoned after pulling. It was just pulled. I am convinced we all would have a favorite if the Q had been re-seasoned with rub after pulling.

You know perhaps this is as it should be-the goal is great smoked meat. Not Flavored meat.
 
Thanks for sharing. I will have to try this some time. I recently got the Wolfe rubs to try against some others I have been working with. I respect Larry and wanted to try his out. I did use one on a brisket. It was very nice and the family loved the brisket. I have a few batches of different rubs and the next time I make PP I will have to do the rub down! Thanks again. Vince
 
When you pulled the butts, did you mix in any of the corresponding rub into the meat? Or did you just let the rub that was on the outside serve? I would think that that would make a more noticeable difference.

When I was deciding on a rub to try, I put together a spreadsheet that I could use to compare them. There are a LOT of potential ingredients. Here's the list of components and groups of components that I ended up needing to include:

sugar
brown sugar
dark brown sugar
light brown sugar
turbinado sugar
-------
paprika
-------
kosher salt
-------
chili powder
ancho chile powder
chipotle chile powder
-------
garlic powder
granulated garlic
garlic salt
-------
onion powder
granulated onion
onion salt
-------
black peppercorns
ground black pepper
coarse ground black pepper
crushed red pepper flakes
ground white pepper
green peppercorns
-------
cayenne
cumin
dry mustard
-------
Accent
bay leaf
celery salt
celery seed
coriander seeds
cumin seed
dried marjoram
dried thyme
dried rosemary
ground allspice
ground celery seed
ground cinnamon
ground ginger
ground oregano
-------
hot red pepper sauce

What I ended up with is (salt free):
1/2 cup turbinado sugar 32%
1/2 cup paprika 32%
1/4 cup chili powder 16%
2 tablespoons granulated garlic 8%
2 tablespoons onion powder 8%
1 teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes 1%
2 teaspoon cayenne 2%
1 teaspoon dried thyme 1%

I can definitely taste the heat. I did this rub on butts and ribs and it was great. I tried it on brisket; not so much.

As I've learned more, I've found that beef versus pork rubs can be very different. For example, here's a comment on rub composition from amazingribs.com:
Beef rub is different than pork rub. Pork loves sweetness, but beef does not. The best pork rubs have of more sugar in them, like Meathead's Memphis Dust. Black pepper, on the other hand, works great with beef.
And here's their pork and beef rubs compared:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>......................beef....pork
<LI> sugar..............11%....50%
<LI> salt..................21%.....8%
<LI> garlic powder.....7%.....8%
<LI> onion powder...11%.....4%
<LI> black pepper.....32%.....4%
<LI> paprika.......................17%
<LI> rosemary......................4%
<LI> ginger...........................4%
<LI> chili powder.......7%
<LI> cayenne............4%
<LI> dry mustard.......7%
<LI> thyme...............1%
[/list]

I'm going to try a pepper based rub on my next brisket.
 
seems like an appropriate time to revive this well done experiment.

I love the experiment Steve and would like to throw out some ideas:

Butt probably wasn't the best vehicle for the rubs. Long cook times, and low surface area to volume might skew the results. But if a good butt recipe was your goal, then I suppose its a fair test.

Salt needs to be controlled for. I'd say the percent salt in each rub probably had an effect on the results (if not originally controlled for). I know KK does not quantify salt in his rubs.

Don't be discouraged by this. We all need to do better cataloging spices/flavors that can endure long smokes. My goal is to work towards an initial rub and a late stage rub that work together and give me a better final spice profile.

It does make you wonder about the 100's of award winning rubs that are out there. I'd bet 90% of them won't taste much different than a rub of salt, pepper, paprika (which is flavorless), and msg.
 
Originally posted by Steve Petrone:
The cook went 18 hours at 225-250-265.

So does all this conversation and experimenting I've done been mostly worthless???? This Rub Down would lead me to believe so.

As I said I could taste differences but not to the extent I expected.

Anybody done a similar Rub Down?
Click to expand...
Steve, I have found over the years that on those long Azz cooks, the flavors of the rubs tend to get lost in all that time in the heat and smoke IMO. I've noticed that doing High Heat short cooks, lets the different spices in rubs come through and not get lost as they do on long cooks.
icon_wink.gif
 
I've noticed that doing High Heat short cooks, lets the different spices in rubs come through and not get lost as they do on long cooks
Click to expand...

Bryan, I was wondering if time or temp (or both) were the real flavor killers.
 
I suspect some spices can stand higher temps-tho how much different is 250 vs 300? There are also probably some spices that hold up better in long cooks.

Frankly, this cook was cut short...one of the butts needed more time but my butt was 'done'.

To answer the question...I did not re-season the pulled meat-just pulled it period.
 
Originally posted by j biesinger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I've noticed that doing High Heat short cooks, lets the different spices in rubs come through and not get lost as they do on long cooks
Click to expand...

Bryan, I was wondering if time or temp (or both) were the real flavor killers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
j, I think it's time more than anything. Like on a 14-16+ hr butt cook, not too many spices hold up well/keep their flavor profile over that many hrs. in the smoke. One of the things I've noticed on HH cooks, is how much the rub is on the front of the food when eating it, It's a really noticeable difference than low and slow cooked meat IMO.
 
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