tender chicken skin and Leetha's family's BBQ
- Thread starter Dave Russell
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Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
I do. Yes, years of traveling...
A propos the chicken: leg quarters can cook quite a while without drying out from overcooking due to the higher fat and protection the skin affords, especially if cooked at moderate or low temps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wonder if cooking the leg quarter whole would help as opposed to just cooking thighs.
I do. Yes, years of traveling...
A propos the chicken: leg quarters can cook quite a while without drying out from overcooking due to the higher fat and protection the skin affords, especially if cooked at moderate or low temps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wonder if cooking the leg quarter whole would help as opposed to just cooking thighs.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Thighs alone can take long low- or moderate-heat cooking as well. The attached leg of quarters doesn't make a measurable difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks, man! Have a great day.
Thighs alone can take long low- or moderate-heat cooking as well. The attached leg of quarters doesn't make a measurable difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks, man! Have a great day.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">J, I don't know. I guess it's possible, but it sure didn't look like it had been grilled any. I know....otherwise how was it tender, huh? They certainly didn't go to the lengths these competitors go to. I really don't understand why thighs have ended up being cooked like they are on the bbq circuit. It seems like some kind of regulation could've stopped the madness and kept the attention on the cooking and not so much manipulation of the skin and all. What does all that have to do with cooking, really? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
as Kevin notes, there doesnt need to be a grate between the chicken and the heat, think rotisserie.
I think part of the problem with KCBS is that judging drives most of what the competitors do, and most of the judges are fairly naive about bbq. When an non-smokey, uber-juicey hunk of thigh with bite-through skin comes their way, they're impressed, simple as that (or not).
as Kevin notes, there doesnt need to be a grate between the chicken and the heat, think rotisserie.
I think part of the problem with KCBS is that judging drives most of what the competitors do, and most of the judges are fairly naive about bbq. When an non-smokey, uber-juicey hunk of thigh with bite-through skin comes their way, they're impressed, simple as that (or not).
MKEvenson
TVWBB Wizard
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">, but it sure didn't look like it had been grilled any. I know....otherwise how was it tender, huh? They certainly didn't go to the lengths these competitors go to. I really don't understand why thighs have ended up being cooked like they are on the bbq circuit. It seems like some kind of regulation could've stopped the madness and kept the attention on the cooking and not so much manipulation of the skin and all. What does all that have to do with cooking, really? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think part of the problem with KCBS is that judging drives most of what the competitors do, and most of the judges are fairly naive about bbq. When an non-smokey, uber-juicey hunk of thigh with bite-through skin comes their way, they're impressed, simple as that (or not). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I really don't think it unusual for competitors to try and please the judges. As in art and any subjective comparison, food cooking for judging is in the mouth of the judge. There is not only big money being spent and won by a few competitors, but also braggin rights. That is not to say that competitive BBQ is better or worse than back yard BBQ or restaraunt BBQ. It is different and there are real reasons for that. Chicken aside, the other meats seem to be cooked with fairly little fanfare.
Mark
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">, but it sure didn't look like it had been grilled any. I know....otherwise how was it tender, huh? They certainly didn't go to the lengths these competitors go to. I really don't understand why thighs have ended up being cooked like they are on the bbq circuit. It seems like some kind of regulation could've stopped the madness and kept the attention on the cooking and not so much manipulation of the skin and all. What does all that have to do with cooking, really? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think part of the problem with KCBS is that judging drives most of what the competitors do, and most of the judges are fairly naive about bbq. When an non-smokey, uber-juicey hunk of thigh with bite-through skin comes their way, they're impressed, simple as that (or not). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I really don't think it unusual for competitors to try and please the judges. As in art and any subjective comparison, food cooking for judging is in the mouth of the judge. There is not only big money being spent and won by a few competitors, but also braggin rights. That is not to say that competitive BBQ is better or worse than back yard BBQ or restaraunt BBQ. It is different and there are real reasons for that. Chicken aside, the other meats seem to be cooked with fairly little fanfare.
Mark
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
Mark, I was curious why my thread was resurrected.
I still don't know why the smoked leg quarters at this cook a few years back had such fine skin, but, I was simply trying to emphasize the fact that this was a restaurant that did the cook, not competitors trying to impress judges. Who knows what they did? I suspect they seasoned and air-dryed and simply put on the pit at a moderate temp with all the rest of the meat.
Anyway, as I noted in my "sassafrass chicken cook" thread, you don't necessarily have to go to a lot of trouble to get decent skin. (The restaurant didn't, I'm sure.) I think our cook was better than my other recent ones for the following reasons: Smaller, less fatty leg quarters. Also, I've gotten lazy and haven't been marinating like we did on this one. Maybe the oil is key. No air drying though, that's for sure. Decent temps, around 300, but certainly not in excess of 350 for much. Like I've said, though. I still don't think the little wsm is much of a chicken cooker, compared to a uds or a big wsm with no pan.
I still don't know why the smoked leg quarters at this cook a few years back had such fine skin, but, I was simply trying to emphasize the fact that this was a restaurant that did the cook, not competitors trying to impress judges. Who knows what they did? I suspect they seasoned and air-dryed and simply put on the pit at a moderate temp with all the rest of the meat.
Anyway, as I noted in my "sassafrass chicken cook" thread, you don't necessarily have to go to a lot of trouble to get decent skin. (The restaurant didn't, I'm sure.) I think our cook was better than my other recent ones for the following reasons: Smaller, less fatty leg quarters. Also, I've gotten lazy and haven't been marinating like we did on this one. Maybe the oil is key. No air drying though, that's for sure. Decent temps, around 300, but certainly not in excess of 350 for much. Like I've said, though. I still don't think the little wsm is much of a chicken cooker, compared to a uds or a big wsm with no pan.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">maybe a south of the border taste profile. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
stick to standard kc bbq flavors and go sweeter than you think.
stick to standard kc bbq flavors and go sweeter than you think.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mk evenson:
Thanks Dave. I am prepping for my first KCBS comp at the end of the month and have been reading everything related to chicken. I am cooking the chicken and brisket this one. I am leaning towards legs , maybe a south of the border taste profile.
Mark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thighs rule, Mark. I wouldn't do legs unless I had a way to make them tender and still have bite through skin.
I have no idea what'll win out in CA, but would stick to tried and true here in the south or the heartland. I will say that I LOVED the Paul Kirk rub recipe for my last chicken cook. It's got a little sage and other stuff that I don't use in my butt and brisket rubs, and thought it might work with the chicken. It IS very K.C, like J suggests, and isn't it cool when stuff turns out BETTER than suggested?
Thanks Dave. I am prepping for my first KCBS comp at the end of the month and have been reading everything related to chicken. I am cooking the chicken and brisket this one. I am leaning towards legs , maybe a south of the border taste profile.
Mark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thighs rule, Mark. I wouldn't do legs unless I had a way to make them tender and still have bite through skin.
I have no idea what'll win out in CA, but would stick to tried and true here in the south or the heartland. I will say that I LOVED the Paul Kirk rub recipe for my last chicken cook. It's got a little sage and other stuff that I don't use in my butt and brisket rubs, and thought it might work with the chicken. It IS very K.C, like J suggests, and isn't it cool when stuff turns out BETTER than suggested?
MKEvenson
TVWBB Wizard
Thighs rule, Mark. I wouldn't do legs unless I had a way to make them tender and still have bite through skin.
I have no idea what'll win out in CA, but would stick to tried and true here in the south or the heartland. It IS very K.C, like J suggests, and isn't it cool when stuff turns out BETTER than suggested?[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm. I cooked last night just like J suggested. Too sweet for my taste, but .... The legs I cooked were tender, juicy and bite thru skin. The thighs, another story. The skin having been almost removed when I trimmed the thighs, came off whole on the first bite. Hence my thought of going with legs. I recently read somewhere that some judges would like to get ANYTHING but a thigh, in the chicken box. Maybe not, according to you. I am learning.
Mark
I have no idea what'll win out in CA, but would stick to tried and true here in the south or the heartland. It IS very K.C, like J suggests, and isn't it cool when stuff turns out BETTER than suggested?[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm. I cooked last night just like J suggested. Too sweet for my taste, but .... The legs I cooked were tender, juicy and bite thru skin. The thighs, another story. The skin having been almost removed when I trimmed the thighs, came off whole on the first bite. Hence my thought of going with legs. I recently read somewhere that some judges would like to get ANYTHING but a thigh, in the chicken box. Maybe not, according to you. I am learning.
Mark
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Thighs are de rigueur. If legs have done well (and they might well have) I'm not familiar with it. If your concern is what the judges will like go with the familiar (for judges): thighs with a sweet profile. Some heat (not much), some fruit, perhaps background herbs/aromatics. I find comp Q virtually inedible - but it's not about what I (and you, maybe) like. It's about targeting a KCBS profile, and that's pretty narrow.
If the skin is coming off you might be overtrimming.
If the skin is coming off you might be overtrimming.
Dale Perry
TVWBB Guru
Inedible? Really? All I can say is WOW.
I do not turn in sweet Q and we do alright. Plus we turn in exactly what we cook at home. Our Q process "especially our chicken" is nothing like what is told in this thread.
I do not turn in sweet Q and we do alright. Plus we turn in exactly what we cook at home. Our Q process "especially our chicken" is nothing like what is told in this thread.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Yup, really. You've mentioned in some other thread somewhere the same. Would that I could make it to a comp you're cooking some time.
It's all relative. What is not sweet to you might be sweet to me. Dunno. It doesn't matter what I find appealing - and the first thing I tell people who ask me for help with comps is "I don't compete, so adjust accordingly".
It's all relative. What is not sweet to you might be sweet to me. Dunno. It doesn't matter what I find appealing - and the first thing I tell people who ask me for help with comps is "I don't compete, so adjust accordingly".
MKEvenson
TVWBB Wizard
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dale Perry:
Inedible? Really? All I can say is WOW.
I do not turn in sweet Q and we do alright. Plus we turn in exactly what we cook at home. Our Q process "especially our chicken" is nothing like what is told in this thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dale, not a whole secret, but some hint, would be welcomed. Many of the suggestions that I am getting follow Kevin's to the T. Make it a little sweeter than you think it should be and have a
bit of spice. From several KCBS judges, FLAVOR is key!
Since I am a rookie at comps, not cooking, I ingest all the help I can get. They say, "the proof is in the pudding".
Mark
Inedible? Really? All I can say is WOW.
I do not turn in sweet Q and we do alright. Plus we turn in exactly what we cook at home. Our Q process "especially our chicken" is nothing like what is told in this thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dale, not a whole secret, but some hint, would be welcomed. Many of the suggestions that I am getting follow Kevin's to the T. Make it a little sweeter than you think it should be and have a
bit of spice. From several KCBS judges, FLAVOR is key!
Since I am a rookie at comps, not cooking, I ingest all the help I can get. They say, "the proof is in the pudding".
Mark
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dale Perry:
Inedible? Really? All I can say is WOW.
I do not turn in sweet Q and we do alright. Plus we turn in exactly what we cook at home. Our Q process "especially our chicken" is nothing like what is told in this thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's funny how stuff hits our taste buds. I was admitting how I smoked some enhanced spares yesterday. Anyway, I had a bottle of SBR w/ honey in the fridge. I dipped a rib in it to see if the sweet would take the edge off the sodium. Well, it actually made it nastier, as in just disqusting.
I think I might start leaving sauce off ribs and chicken altogether, though. Some of the best chicken I've ever smoked was definately the wishbone Ital. marinated, KC rubbed, Sassaffrass leg quarters I mentioned in another thread. Nobody was asking for sauce, 'cause it was awesome the way it was.
Inedible? Really? All I can say is WOW.
I do not turn in sweet Q and we do alright. Plus we turn in exactly what we cook at home. Our Q process "especially our chicken" is nothing like what is told in this thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's funny how stuff hits our taste buds. I was admitting how I smoked some enhanced spares yesterday. Anyway, I had a bottle of SBR w/ honey in the fridge. I dipped a rib in it to see if the sweet would take the edge off the sodium. Well, it actually made it nastier, as in just disqusting.
I think I might start leaving sauce off ribs and chicken altogether, though. Some of the best chicken I've ever smoked was definately the wishbone Ital. marinated, KC rubbed, Sassaffrass leg quarters I mentioned in another thread. Nobody was asking for sauce, 'cause it was awesome the way it was.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I'm a huge fan of sauces (though not commercial: SBR is not something I can do, and don't get me started on how much I can't stand Blues Hog, ubiquitous at so many comps) but, for Q, do not like them applied during cooking. For ribs that I'm eating, I might use quite literally all of a tablespoon of sauce for, say, a half rack, dripped on here and there while I eat them.
For chicken I really like crisp skin - not tender, bite-through - crisp. (The only exceptions: Roadside and jerk and other marinated approaches, but I don't do these often.) Sauce goes on a split second before I bite. And I dislike barbecue sauce on chicken, period.
See? I'd never make it as a competitor.
For chicken I really like crisp skin - not tender, bite-through - crisp. (The only exceptions: Roadside and jerk and other marinated approaches, but I don't do these often.) Sauce goes on a split second before I bite. And I dislike barbecue sauce on chicken, period.
See? I'd never make it as a competitor.
Dale Perry
TVWBB Guru
Thats funny, some do not believe me when I tell them that we do not sauce our comp chicken. Well, we dont. I look at my first place trophies and just grin thinking about it.
Mark, we have found that the farther north we cook the sweeter it needs to be. I have been told that out west needs to be even sweeter.
I like spice and savory with the right amount of smoke. Juicy and tender bite thru chicken. Crispy chicken is going to be drier and will not score as well with the judges. Thats the beauty of competition for us. We turn in what we like, win or lose.
Mark, we have found that the farther north we cook the sweeter it needs to be. I have been told that out west needs to be even sweeter.
I like spice and savory with the right amount of smoke. Juicy and tender bite thru chicken. Crispy chicken is going to be drier and will not score as well with the judges. Thats the beauty of competition for us. We turn in what we like, win or lose.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dale Perry:
Thats funny, some do not believe me when I tell them that we do not sauce our comp chicken. Well, we dont. I look at my first place trophies and just grin thinking about it.
Mark, we have found that the farther north we cook the sweeter it needs to be. I have been told that out west needs to be even sweeter.
I like spice and savory with the right amount of smoke. Juicy and tender bite thru chicken. Crispy chicken is going to be drier and will not score as well with the judges. Thats the beauty of competition for us. We turn in what we like, win or lose. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, that's full circle, Dale.
The smoked chicken we had back at that family reunion that Leetha's nephew cooked for was just that: not sauced, juicy and tender bite thru chicken.
I'm surprised you don't need sweet sauce to win comps in the south, but if so, that's a good thing!
Thats funny, some do not believe me when I tell them that we do not sauce our comp chicken. Well, we dont. I look at my first place trophies and just grin thinking about it.
Mark, we have found that the farther north we cook the sweeter it needs to be. I have been told that out west needs to be even sweeter.
I like spice and savory with the right amount of smoke. Juicy and tender bite thru chicken. Crispy chicken is going to be drier and will not score as well with the judges. Thats the beauty of competition for us. We turn in what we like, win or lose. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, that's full circle, Dale.
The smoked chicken we had back at that family reunion that Leetha's nephew cooked for was just that: not sauced, juicy and tender bite thru chicken.
I'm surprised you don't need sweet sauce to win comps in the south, but if so, that's a good thing!