Temperature Question
- Thread starter Mike Mar
- Start date
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
Mike, temps are only a starting point. The key is for each operator to be consistent in how they monitor their smoker.
I've cooked enough with a 240* dome temp to know what to expect. Do I know what that translates to in terms of grate temp? not really, but I have enough confidence that it doesn't matter.
If you're new to the wsm, then stick as many probes in the thing as possible so you can get a feel for what's going on inside it. Compare all the temps to your dome, and compare the dome temp to how the meat cooks. Ultimately, the dome will be the only temp you'll watch (it saves you from getting tangled in wires all the time). I do not recommend relying on dome temp for new users who want to cook low and slow. If the cook temp is a bit lower than you think you could be in for a really long cook.
For HH I never worry much about temps. A wide open wsm never gets above 300* which works fine for me.
I've cooked enough with a 240* dome temp to know what to expect. Do I know what that translates to in terms of grate temp? not really, but I have enough confidence that it doesn't matter.
If you're new to the wsm, then stick as many probes in the thing as possible so you can get a feel for what's going on inside it. Compare all the temps to your dome, and compare the dome temp to how the meat cooks. Ultimately, the dome will be the only temp you'll watch (it saves you from getting tangled in wires all the time). I do not recommend relying on dome temp for new users who want to cook low and slow. If the cook temp is a bit lower than you think you could be in for a really long cook.
For HH I never worry much about temps. A wide open wsm never gets above 300* which works fine for me.
Dave/G
TVWBB Emerald Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Mar:
I guess I could stick the heat probe through one of the vent holes in the lid. Would that be ok to measure lid temp? Mike </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's the preferred method of many. It makes life a lot easier.
I guess I could stick the heat probe through one of the vent holes in the lid. Would that be ok to measure lid temp? Mike </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's the preferred method of many. It makes life a lot easier.
Jack Bordeaux
TVWBB Super Fan
Make sure you calibrate the thermometer, even the lid thermometer the WSM comes with. Just get a pot of boiling water and stick the probe and take a reading. Do not submerge the whole thermometer...just the probe part.
Brian Curtis
TVWBB Member
BBQ Guru says with the Nano to put the wires from the pit grate probe under the cover. I bought their grommets but the clip is to big, may try bigger grommets, anyone use the 3/8" ones with these type probes? Should post this question on Automatic Temp Controllers
Eric Michaud
TVWBB Super Fan
I have a Maverick 732, used this mod and the meat probe fits fine. I drop the temp probe thru the top vent. Here is the link.
http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/...80069052/m/945107275
http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/...80069052/m/945107275
hhmmm. i have to disagree with a few posts here.
1st, heat rises, the dome temp will be HIGHER than the grate temp for the first part of the cook. as it goes along, it evens out.
2nd, i can EASILY get my 22.5 above 300* wide open with briquettes, let alone, lump.
but, as the others have said, moniter the dome and record, remember, how the cook went, and adjust from there.
1st, heat rises, the dome temp will be HIGHER than the grate temp for the first part of the cook. as it goes along, it evens out.
2nd, i can EASILY get my 22.5 above 300* wide open with briquettes, let alone, lump.
but, as the others have said, moniter the dome and record, remember, how the cook went, and adjust from there.
I'll just add on that in my experience, a candy thermometer in the dome vent works just fine. All you are looking for is a point of reference like others have mentioned. The number doesn't matter so much, what matters is that the number is consistent (of course it should be in the ball park of your target temp). If your cook goes well and in the amount of time expected, give or take, remember what the dome temp was and that is your target for the future. Keep in mind all thermometers are not created equal, so if you get a new one you need to keep a closer eye on your meats for that first cook or two.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dylan:
hhmmm. i have to disagree with a few posts here.
1st, heat rises, the dome temp will be HIGHER than the grate temp for the first part of the cook. as it goes along, it evens out.
2nd, i can EASILY get my 22.5 above 300* wide open with briquettes, let alone, lump... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dylan, I get what you're saying with the first disagreement. If I place a probe on the top grate by a brisket, and clip my cheap therm to hang inside the dome vent, the dome vent reading will be significantly higher, especially in the first part of the cook. However, at least if I have a full grate (18.5"), even when it was accurate, the OE dome gauge on my '09 wsm will read no higher than the grate, at least at the start of a typical overnight cook. I guess that two big pork butts or a brisket serve to cool off a lot of that rising heat.
On your second disagreement, not all wsm's are the same. Some seem almost as tight as a drum (like a UDS), and some leak like a sieve, especially a lot of the big wsms from what I hear. I concur with J: I can't maintain much over 275* in mine, even without water in the pan, unless I crack the door or unseat the lid. I could start with a lot of lit lump, but it wouldn't stay hot for long.
hhmmm. i have to disagree with a few posts here.
1st, heat rises, the dome temp will be HIGHER than the grate temp for the first part of the cook. as it goes along, it evens out.
2nd, i can EASILY get my 22.5 above 300* wide open with briquettes, let alone, lump... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dylan, I get what you're saying with the first disagreement. If I place a probe on the top grate by a brisket, and clip my cheap therm to hang inside the dome vent, the dome vent reading will be significantly higher, especially in the first part of the cook. However, at least if I have a full grate (18.5"), even when it was accurate, the OE dome gauge on my '09 wsm will read no higher than the grate, at least at the start of a typical overnight cook. I guess that two big pork butts or a brisket serve to cool off a lot of that rising heat.
On your second disagreement, not all wsm's are the same. Some seem almost as tight as a drum (like a UDS), and some leak like a sieve, especially a lot of the big wsms from what I hear. I concur with J: I can't maintain much over 275* in mine, even without water in the pan, unless I crack the door or unseat the lid. I could start with a lot of lit lump, but it wouldn't stay hot for long.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I've cooked enough with a 240* dome temp to know what to expect. Do I know what that translates to in terms of grate temp? not really, but I have enough confidence that it doesn't matter.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Truer words have never been spoken. Once you are comfortable with your equipment and have a few cooks under your belt you know what number you are looking for on that dome. Who cares what the dead nuts on temperature actually is.
Case in point, I was determined to keep the dome at 225 for pork butt, when I discovered that if I aim for 250 on the dome I get better results. What is the actual grate temp? Don't have a clue, but I know it works great if I aim for that dome number.
I've cooked enough with a 240* dome temp to know what to expect. Do I know what that translates to in terms of grate temp? not really, but I have enough confidence that it doesn't matter.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Truer words have never been spoken. Once you are comfortable with your equipment and have a few cooks under your belt you know what number you are looking for on that dome. Who cares what the dead nuts on temperature actually is.
Case in point, I was determined to keep the dome at 225 for pork butt, when I discovered that if I aim for 250 on the dome I get better results. What is the actual grate temp? Don't have a clue, but I know it works great if I aim for that dome number.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
Mike, temps are only a starting point. The key is for each operator to be consistent in how they monitor their smoker.
I've cooked enough with a 240* dome temp to know what to expect. Do I know what that translates to in terms of grate temp? not really, but I have enough confidence that it doesn't matter.
If you're new to the wsm, then stick as many probes in the thing as possible so you can get a feel for what's going on inside it. Compare all the temps to your dome, and compare the dome temp to how the meat cooks. Ultimately, the dome will be the only temp you'll watch (it saves you from getting tangled in wires all the time). I do not recommend relying on dome temp for new users who want to cook low and slow. If the cook temp is a bit lower than you think you could be in for a really long cook.
For HH I never worry much about temps. A wide open wsm never gets above 300* which works fine for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excellent answer J. biesinger. Consistent temps are the end result of knowing how to set-up your WSM. No matter how or what methodology you use (water/no water, low and slow/HH, briquet/lump, etc.) even do you have a good seal between the charcoal bowl and middle section, how good does the side door seal, and don't forget that beautiful black resin that makes the lid stick when the WSM is cooled down IMO all contribute to consistent temps while you smoke.
I'm also watchful for ambient temps, in the sun or in the shade, ANY I repeat ANY wind/draft that might affect the smoker.
To the original question, I could careless about the grate temp and more about the lid temp to let me know how 'consistent' my smoker is running.
Mike, temps are only a starting point. The key is for each operator to be consistent in how they monitor their smoker.
I've cooked enough with a 240* dome temp to know what to expect. Do I know what that translates to in terms of grate temp? not really, but I have enough confidence that it doesn't matter.
If you're new to the wsm, then stick as many probes in the thing as possible so you can get a feel for what's going on inside it. Compare all the temps to your dome, and compare the dome temp to how the meat cooks. Ultimately, the dome will be the only temp you'll watch (it saves you from getting tangled in wires all the time). I do not recommend relying on dome temp for new users who want to cook low and slow. If the cook temp is a bit lower than you think you could be in for a really long cook.
For HH I never worry much about temps. A wide open wsm never gets above 300* which works fine for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excellent answer J. biesinger. Consistent temps are the end result of knowing how to set-up your WSM. No matter how or what methodology you use (water/no water, low and slow/HH, briquet/lump, etc.) even do you have a good seal between the charcoal bowl and middle section, how good does the side door seal, and don't forget that beautiful black resin that makes the lid stick when the WSM is cooled down IMO all contribute to consistent temps while you smoke.
I'm also watchful for ambient temps, in the sun or in the shade, ANY I repeat ANY wind/draft that might affect the smoker.
To the original question, I could careless about the grate temp and more about the lid temp to let me know how 'consistent' my smoker is running.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dylan:
hhmmm. i have to disagree with a few posts here.
1st, heat rises, the dome temp will be HIGHER than the grate temp for the first part of the cook. as it goes along, it evens out.
2nd, i can EASILY get my 22.5 above 300* wide open with briquettes, let alone, lump... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dylan, I get what you're saying with the first disagreement. If I place a probe on the top grate by a brisket, and clip my cheap therm to hang inside the dome vent, the dome vent reading will be significantly higher, especially in the first part of the cook. However, at least if I have a full grate (18.5"), even when it was accurate, the OE dome gauge on my '09 wsm will read no higher than the grate, at least at the start of a typical overnight cook. I guess that two big pork butts or a brisket serve to cool off a lot of that rising heat.
On your second disagreement, not all wsm's are the same. Some seem almost as tight as a drum (like a UDS), and some leak like a sieve, especially a lot of the big wsms from what I hear. I concur with J: I can't maintain much over 275* in mine, even without water in the pan, unless I crack the door or unseat the lid. I could start with a lot of lit lump, but it wouldn't stay hot for long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
there are certainly alot of factors incolved.
ambient temp., fuel type, pounds meat in cooker, etc.
all i can say is, using stubbs briqs, and 2 WSM's, 1 a 2010 model, and 1 a 2011 model(with new arched door, and not as tight a lid seat), i hit 325* easy wide open with 18 racks of ribs in each.
no door prop, no lid offset.
truthfully i was surprised myself.
as to not knowing what temp your really cooking at? is this really being suggested as OK?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dylan:
hhmmm. i have to disagree with a few posts here.
1st, heat rises, the dome temp will be HIGHER than the grate temp for the first part of the cook. as it goes along, it evens out.
2nd, i can EASILY get my 22.5 above 300* wide open with briquettes, let alone, lump... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dylan, I get what you're saying with the first disagreement. If I place a probe on the top grate by a brisket, and clip my cheap therm to hang inside the dome vent, the dome vent reading will be significantly higher, especially in the first part of the cook. However, at least if I have a full grate (18.5"), even when it was accurate, the OE dome gauge on my '09 wsm will read no higher than the grate, at least at the start of a typical overnight cook. I guess that two big pork butts or a brisket serve to cool off a lot of that rising heat.
On your second disagreement, not all wsm's are the same. Some seem almost as tight as a drum (like a UDS), and some leak like a sieve, especially a lot of the big wsms from what I hear. I concur with J: I can't maintain much over 275* in mine, even without water in the pan, unless I crack the door or unseat the lid. I could start with a lot of lit lump, but it wouldn't stay hot for long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
there are certainly alot of factors incolved.
ambient temp., fuel type, pounds meat in cooker, etc.
all i can say is, using stubbs briqs, and 2 WSM's, 1 a 2010 model, and 1 a 2011 model(with new arched door, and not as tight a lid seat), i hit 325* easy wide open with 18 racks of ribs in each.
no door prop, no lid offset.
truthfully i was surprised myself.
as to not knowing what temp your really cooking at? is this really being suggested as OK?
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dylan:
...as to not knowing what temp your really cooking at? is this really being suggested as OK? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's funny you ask, 'cause I was just talking with a friend of mine this evening about constructing a cinder block pit out back, and when I think of all the 'Q that's been smoked over the decades.... yeah, I suppose it's ok not to know what temp you're really cooking at.
One the other hand though, I find that if I stick an accurate therm in my top wsm vent, it's close enough to provide some practical expectations concerning temps and corresponding time frames. Is it the actual cooking temp? Well, the outer area of the cooking grates are HOTTER, and the middle of the grates are a little COOLER, so maybe under normal conditions it's not too far from the AVERAGE cooking temp.
...as to not knowing what temp your really cooking at? is this really being suggested as OK? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's funny you ask, 'cause I was just talking with a friend of mine this evening about constructing a cinder block pit out back, and when I think of all the 'Q that's been smoked over the decades.... yeah, I suppose it's ok not to know what temp you're really cooking at.
One the other hand though, I find that if I stick an accurate therm in my top wsm vent, it's close enough to provide some practical expectations concerning temps and corresponding time frames. Is it the actual cooking temp? Well, the outer area of the cooking grates are HOTTER, and the middle of the grates are a little COOLER, so maybe under normal conditions it's not too far from the AVERAGE cooking temp.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dylan:
...as to not knowing what temp your really cooking at? is this really being suggested as OK? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's funny you ask, 'cause I was just talking with a friend of mine this evening about constructing a cinder block pit out back, and when I think of all the 'Q that's been smoked over the decades.... yeah, I suppose it's ok not to know what temp you're really cooking at.
One the other hand though, I find that if I stick an accurate therm in my top wsm vent, it's close enough to provide some practical expectations concerning temps and corresponding time frames. Is it the actual cooking temp? Well, the outer area of the cooking grates are HOTTER, and the middle of the grates are a little COOLER, so maybe under normal conditions it's not too far from the AVERAGE cooking temp.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
good points. i stand corrected.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dylan:
...as to not knowing what temp your really cooking at? is this really being suggested as OK? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's funny you ask, 'cause I was just talking with a friend of mine this evening about constructing a cinder block pit out back, and when I think of all the 'Q that's been smoked over the decades.... yeah, I suppose it's ok not to know what temp you're really cooking at.
One the other hand though, I find that if I stick an accurate therm in my top wsm vent, it's close enough to provide some practical expectations concerning temps and corresponding time frames. Is it the actual cooking temp? Well, the outer area of the cooking grates are HOTTER, and the middle of the grates are a little COOLER, so maybe under normal conditions it's not too far from the AVERAGE cooking temp.
good points. i stand corrected.
Brad Benski
TVWBB Super Fan
I'd take it a step further and say that I really don't need the temperature from the dome or grate. At this point I've learned the smoker and can just open then vents to the right place to get a temp that's ok. What temp you ask? Well anything between about 225 and 300. My monitoring technique is if I look through the window at the thermo and the pointer is pointing towards within 45 degrees of straight up it's doing OK.
From there it's a matter of meat temperature and feel.
From there it's a matter of meat temperature and feel.
Wolgast
TVWBB Olympian
Well my wsm runns hotter (20)f @ the upper grate...Then the dome temp.
"as to not knowing what temp your really cooking at? is this really being suggested as OK? "
Try to put an external termo in your oven (grate level) and se if that one is spot on...I BET its not
But if you get perfect ribs @ dome temp around 250 or 290 who cares what temp the grate is at.
I never go by dome..I always go by grate. My Et-73 makes me sit & read the forums or play with the kids without going out and check the smoker. I know what grate temp is..And i know the food turns out fine with the temp im running my smoker.
"as to not knowing what temp your really cooking at? is this really being suggested as OK? "
Try to put an external termo in your oven (grate level) and se if that one is spot on...I BET its not
But if you get perfect ribs @ dome temp around 250 or 290 who cares what temp the grate is at.
I never go by dome..I always go by grate. My Et-73 makes me sit & read the forums or play with the kids without going out and check the smoker. I know what grate temp is..And i know the food turns out fine with the temp im running my smoker.
Eric Michaud
TVWBB Super Fan
You know this is a great thread and I ask myself when I am q'ing "why is it with a steak, burgers, or chicken I can touch it and just know? But with ribs, butts, or brisket I make life harder than I should and second guess myself. Then I think about some of the southern pitmasters who have no thermapen, bbq gurus, or Maverick remotes and realize it all comes down to experience and confidence in what you are doing.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You know this is a great thread and I ask myself when I am q'ing "why is it with a steak, burgers, or chicken I can touch it and just know? But with ribs, butts, or brisket I make life harder than I should and second guess myself. Then I think about some of the southern pitmasters who have no thermapen, bbq gurus, or Maverick remotes and realize it all comes down to experience and confidence in what you are doing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Using therms for pit and roast internals helps reduce the learning curve. Understanding what the meat does are different temps is key to figuring out the process. But after enough butt or rib cooks, therms become unneeded.
I'm kind of proud of my allies here who are ok with admitting to cooking 250-275*. Abandoning the pure ideals of low and slow cooking was one of the most important steps for me in learning how to get meat to tender. I can't tell you how bad my barbecue was and what a pain it was to cook when I was trying to keep my dome below 225*. Then again, I hadn't really figured out the minion method either.
Using therms for pit and roast internals helps reduce the learning curve. Understanding what the meat does are different temps is key to figuring out the process. But after enough butt or rib cooks, therms become unneeded.
I'm kind of proud of my allies here who are ok with admitting to cooking 250-275*. Abandoning the pure ideals of low and slow cooking was one of the most important steps for me in learning how to get meat to tender. I can't tell you how bad my barbecue was and what a pain it was to cook when I was trying to keep my dome below 225*. Then again, I hadn't really figured out the minion method either.