Sunday dinner with LarryGrates
- Thread starter Jon Tofte
- Start date
!
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Looking at the above photo I don't see what there is to crow about with GG's frankly Though honestly even going with the screened grates while kinda "cool" again may be over kill. I at some point may try to make a set for the Wolf and determine if there is an improvement or a placebo effect. Honestly I think all the raving about GG's is simpiy because people dump a ton of dough on so so technology and they HAVE to believe it's better. Especially if trying to justify to the wife
Greg M
TVWBB All-Star
The main (and really only) advantage i see with the grill grates is the promise of zero flare ups. Based on the design that's probably a valid promise.
But I don't see it as a big advantage on a weber? I've found their grease management system to be really good at reducing the flare ups. Really the only time I get them anymore is if I'm grilling a REALLY fatty cut of meat. That's only happened to me twice in the 2.5 years since I converted to weber.
I could see a real advantage in reducing the flare ups with an el cheapo big box grill. But then do you really want to spend that kind of money on a cheap grill?
People are evidently buying them though.
But I don't see it as a big advantage on a weber? I've found their grease management system to be really good at reducing the flare ups. Really the only time I get them anymore is if I'm grilling a REALLY fatty cut of meat. That's only happened to me twice in the 2.5 years since I converted to weber.
I could see a real advantage in reducing the flare ups with an el cheapo big box grill. But then do you really want to spend that kind of money on a cheap grill?
People are evidently buying them though.
Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
All I can say is that I am trying to keep an open mind and be as fair and objective as possible. I don’t agree that price is really a legitimate issue. A set of GrillGrates is no more (and actually I believe less) expensive than rcplanebuyer’s. Whether GrillGrates enjoys a fatter profit margin I have no way of knowing, but that is not the issue. Let me be clear that I am very much a fan and supporter of Dave Santana (rcplanebuyer) whose quality is legendary, and while not cheap his products are very fairly priced. What I am saying is that a person choosing EITHER of these options doesn’t have to justify anything because they both produce excellent results as has been clearly demonstrated by several members who have shared mouth-watering results in their posted pictures.
I feel that your concerns about grilling with anodized aluminum, especially given your personal tragic family experience, is a serious concern, whereas comments about the price or that these are gimmicks or not “really grilling” are just a personal bias. Somebody could just as easily say that rcplanebuyer grates are an expensive and unnecessary gimmick and that only Weber OEM cast iron is real grilling. That person would be totally wrong, but I think slamming GrillGrates because of price or because it is different is also unfair. What matters in the end are results. So far GrillGrates have given me EXCELLENT results, just as my cast iron “LarryGrates” have as well. Not ready to say which if either is better because I haven’t directly compared and so I don’t really know.
Regarding the health issue, I do take this seriously. I hope to do more research, but so far what I have read does not support the assertion that using these can at all be compared to stewing tomato sauce in a raw aluminum pan. There is more to learn, though, and if anyone who can provide more information, please do share.
Larry, I am not on the attack or being defensive about GrillGrates (I have nothing to be defensive about since I enjoy all kinds of grates). I am only trying to present some things to consider in being fair in evaluating this or any product.
THyde
TVWBB Guru
Jon, that is a very fair statement. I'm sure Larry will not mind, although he may not share your opinion. I have opinions too, but because of all of the support and advice I've personally gleaned from this forum I just wish to thank everyone for their opinions and advice. Including you, Larry, Bruce, BobW, Rich Dahl, and many more. Thank you everyone for making us all more knowledgeable, helping each other learn from our own mistakes and generally making a most pleasant environment.
Slainte!
Tim
Slainte!
Tim
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
So again while admittedly I was in bad light and simply using my phone to snap a couple quick photos I'll put these here of a tenderloin I cooked up for dinner last night (to be clear it was just a tenderloin steak not a whole one) 
Anyway while this grill would give me identical results with the OEM grates sadly wear/tear and mother nature took their toll on them and they're history. These for those that don't know are custom made grates by Dave (RCPlanebuyer( Santana. I could have bought similar ones directly from Wolf in SS but I would have paid at the least 3x more for them. Or I could have bought OEM style CI grates for about $125 less but then 5 years from now (or perhaps more) I would be in the same boat or at the very least I would have a high maintenance girl.....I mean grill (first wife was the high maintenance).
Anyway all joking aside this was a bacon wrapped filet (not a fan of the bacon thing that much) as you can see it started to squirm off the meat, but, I did nothing special here, other than a light coat of EVOO and my regular salt and pepper. (BTW I used this grill fr not only this piece of meat I had it loaded with veg PRIOR to putting the steak on LOL)
Anyway while the photos don't do it the justice it deserved the crust on it was very nice, grill marks are a little hard on such a small diameter but they're very much there along with a nice "steak house" crust (again mind you NOT on high heat but medium). So again I ask what's the point of GG's? If you have a GOOD grill and solid grates (not flimsy stampings or very thin wire rods) but good solid heavy gauge or cast iron why get flimsy extruded high priced aluminum?!
I can totally bear down on these grates (as I could with the CI ones) for a good cleaning, they do a remarkable job and had these not have to have been custom jigged, designed, drawn and welded with extra bars in them due to the size and odd sized nature of this beast they would be FAR more cost effective.
Jon the photos you're posting using the perforated product and the actual GG product.............I'm sorry I just don't see any true improvement over what you've posted without. Not enough to account for any given differences on a day to day basis i.e. fat content of the meat involved, how it was seasoned prior to grilling, temperature conditions around and in the grill at the time/date of grilling, etc. Sorry I have gone on record as saying these are gimmicks (or at the least crutches) and given the results I see on a daily basis both from my Weber grills and this Wolf I stand by it. As for excessive flare ups IMO this is more a function of grill maintenance than anything. Even with that bacon I had no "flare up" I regularly cook bacon in my Genesis grills (CAREFULLY) with no ill effects. So like I said if personally it makes people happy to waste money go with God. Me? I don't need it never will
Anyway while this grill would give me identical results with the OEM grates sadly wear/tear and mother nature took their toll on them and they're history. These for those that don't know are custom made grates by Dave (RCPlanebuyer( Santana. I could have bought similar ones directly from Wolf in SS but I would have paid at the least 3x more for them. Or I could have bought OEM style CI grates for about $125 less but then 5 years from now (or perhaps more) I would be in the same boat or at the very least I would have a high maintenance girl.....I mean grill (first wife was the high maintenance).
Anyway all joking aside this was a bacon wrapped filet (not a fan of the bacon thing that much) as you can see it started to squirm off the meat, but, I did nothing special here, other than a light coat of EVOO and my regular salt and pepper. (BTW I used this grill fr not only this piece of meat I had it loaded with veg PRIOR to putting the steak on LOL)
Anyway while the photos don't do it the justice it deserved the crust on it was very nice, grill marks are a little hard on such a small diameter but they're very much there along with a nice "steak house" crust (again mind you NOT on high heat but medium). So again I ask what's the point of GG's? If you have a GOOD grill and solid grates (not flimsy stampings or very thin wire rods) but good solid heavy gauge or cast iron why get flimsy extruded high priced aluminum?!
I can totally bear down on these grates (as I could with the CI ones) for a good cleaning, they do a remarkable job and had these not have to have been custom jigged, designed, drawn and welded with extra bars in them due to the size and odd sized nature of this beast they would be FAR more cost effective.
Jon the photos you're posting using the perforated product and the actual GG product.............I'm sorry I just don't see any true improvement over what you've posted without. Not enough to account for any given differences on a day to day basis i.e. fat content of the meat involved, how it was seasoned prior to grilling, temperature conditions around and in the grill at the time/date of grilling, etc. Sorry I have gone on record as saying these are gimmicks (or at the least crutches) and given the results I see on a daily basis both from my Weber grills and this Wolf I stand by it. As for excessive flare ups IMO this is more a function of grill maintenance than anything. Even with that bacon I had no "flare up" I regularly cook bacon in my Genesis grills (CAREFULLY) with no ill effects. So like I said if personally it makes people happy to waste money go with God. Me? I don't need it never will
Bill W San Diego
TVWBB Super Fan
Can anyone explain why GrillGreats have won and continue to win so many steak cooking competitions.
Bill
Bill
Bruce
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
I think a big reason is the "Sear" marks that you get from them. It makes grilled food look appetizing to many people.
I have never used them, so I don't know if they do any better job cooking the food or not, but if you like sear marks, they certainly seem to provide that.
I have never used them, so I don't know if they do any better job cooking the food or not, but if you like sear marks, they certainly seem to provide that.
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Did you ever wonder about the ads you see on TV touting the benefits of say High Fructose Corn Syrup? The nice looking man with the beautiful little girl riding on his shoulders intimating he's a farmer with his little girl and concerned about her health as they walk through a corn field. Guess who sponsors that so called public service announcement?! Well I am sure these same contests are sponsored by the GG company. Come on face facts. Those things are so cheap and easy to make, compared to other materials like stainless steel (even cheaper grades of SS) or the heavy cast iron with the it's enamel process, don't you think for one minute if major companies thought these things were superior they'd be making their own and installing them in their own grills?!
Bruce
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Yah, I have noticed the grill market is full of copy cats. But, it used to be that most of the other brands copied Weber, now it seems Weber is taking it the other way to some degree with all the bling.
As far as accessories, they are a dime a dozen. Lava rocks, ceramic briquettes, etc... They were all intended to replace the flavorizer bars, but remain a niche market in grills. Grills, both charcoal and gas have been using steel and cast iron grates for 50 years plus and they continue to be the dominant solution to this day despite dozens of alternatives that continue to pop up every year.
One of the reasons they might use grill grates for competition cooking is that they provide the stunning sear marks which in most competitions is one of the categories that is judged.
As far as accessories, they are a dime a dozen. Lava rocks, ceramic briquettes, etc... They were all intended to replace the flavorizer bars, but remain a niche market in grills. Grills, both charcoal and gas have been using steel and cast iron grates for 50 years plus and they continue to be the dominant solution to this day despite dozens of alternatives that continue to pop up every year.
One of the reasons they might use grill grates for competition cooking is that they provide the stunning sear marks which in most competitions is one of the categories that is judged.
Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
So again I ask what's the point of GG's? If you have a GOOD grill and solid grates (not flimsy stampings or very thin wire rods) but good solid heavy gauge or cast iron why get flimsy extruded high priced aluminum?!
Jon the photos you're posting using the perforated product and the actual GG product.............I'm sorry I just don't see any true improvement over what you've posted without. Not enough to account for any given differences on a day to day basis i.e. fat content of the meat involved, how it was seasoned prior to grilling, temperature conditions around and in the grill at the time/date of grilling, etc. Sorry I have gone on record as saying these are gimmicks (or at the least crutches) and given the results I see on a daily basis both from my Weber grills and this Wolf I stand by it. As for excessive flare ups IMO this is more a function of grill maintenance than anything. Even with that bacon I had no "flare up" I regularly cook bacon in my Genesis grills (CAREFULLY) with no ill effects. So like I said if personally it makes people happy to waste money go with God. Me? I don't need it never will
Just a couple comments in reply:
The GrillGrates product may be different things, but one thing it is NOT is flimsy. If you haven’t actually examined a set, please trust me that they are very solid and for aluminum not very lightweight. If you have checked them out personally and feel they are flimsy, then we just disagree.
I bought the perforated aluminum SPECIFICALLY because of your suggestion. To buy a single sheet wasn’t cheap (I could have been halfway to a set of Rcplanebuyer grates) but the sheet made enough for three grills, and more importantly I wanted to give your suggested alternative to GrillGrates my own honest try. I agree that it not clear at this point if using this sheet really makes a detectable difference. I hope to answer that by doing direct comparison. It does show, I hope, that I am doing my best to be open minded and consider different options.
So far, I think where GrillGrates shine is in making sear marks that I really like (and many others seem to agree). I don’t think that makes any real taste difference but appearance is part of how food is perceived and enjoyed. That observation is certainly highly subjective and my own personal taste. Others certainly can see it differently, but that doesn’t mean I can’t prefer the way GrillGrates sears. The other positive I have seen is the crutch effect you mentioned. I don’t personally have a problem with something that helps prevent burning expensive meat and which in my experience to date produces very moist meat even when grilled to medium well. I am not above having a crutch even as I salute those who can grill better than I can without needing one
!
Greg M
TVWBB All-Star
Here's a pretty good review of grill grates and grates in general.
https://amazingribs.com/ratings-rev...es-gadgets-wood-food-more/grill-grates-buying
https://amazingribs.com/ratings-rev...es-gadgets-wood-food-more/grill-grates-buying
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Like I said. If they make someone happy so be it. I can see it's like beating a dead horse. Honestly if they're so grate (pun intended) why hasn't ANY grill manufacturer made their grills with something like them from the factory?! Again my term "flimsy" is relative and someone may or may not agree with me but I stand by my opinion that extruding a piece of 14 or 12ga aluminum would be FAR cheaper a practice than actually making grates for any company whether Weber, Napoleon, BroilKing, what have you. And please don't throw "patent" around because there are all kind of ways around that. The theory is the same as simply throwing a Lodge Cast Iron raised griddle on your grill. It will accomplish the exact same thing. Wonderful marks with out the work of dealing with flame (or one could substitute the Lodge piece with the Nordic Ware one https://www.nordicware.com/cookware/cast-aluminum-cookware/grand-reversible-grill-griddle though IMO again aluminum does nowhere near as well as heavy cast iron or heavy gauge stainless steel
This whole discussion is gone in a place I don't like. It's like the Trump/Clinton argument. If a set of GG's get your juices flowing and turn you into super cook go with God. I was honestly offering only TRULY scientific and logical arguments but, sometimes science and logic don't work.
This whole discussion is gone in a place I don't like. It's like the Trump/Clinton argument. If a set of GG's get your juices flowing and turn you into super cook go with God. I was honestly offering only TRULY scientific and logical arguments but, sometimes science and logic don't work.
Brian B Atlanta
TVWBB Gold Member
There are a lot of threads out there even on this site discussing them. In the end there are a lot of people who love them some who think they are a gimmick. So what I love good sear marks does it make the steak taste better not really sure but my wife and I like them. You do not have to buy full on grates to cover your grill I am going to buy a couple of panels for $55 bucks can use them on my performer also.
I did some boneless chicken breasts on my redhead a few weeks ago and since they have little fat the sear is far from what I would of liked and my wife made a comment about them. I don't like my chicken dry so if these can give me the sear on the outside that we want juicy on the inside so be it.
Jon has spent money to do experiments why I don't know but that's what he does and personally I appreciate his effort he is providing information on his own dime. I will stand by the results of his experiments and say that so far like a few others the grill grates have the best results its not even close and Jon correct me if I am wrong you got the best results with the aluminum on cast iron grates which in ATL would require so much effort to maintain its not an option.
Its a hobby spend your money where you want to yes trying to get the best results you can so if grill grates give you the best results for what your looking for go for it. I myself would never in a million years spend the money for RC's stuff am I saying its not the best choice no I am not, but not for that kind of money for me. The value to me is not there does that mean the value to you is not there of course not that is a personal decision. If you think the grill grates are a gimmick then no problem don't buy them.
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Here is some wild caught King Salmon from New Zealand I grilled for myself last night. BTW a beautiful product it grills up rich and succulent I like it far better than the wild Sockeye salmon I sometimes buy which is very unforgiving and hard to get "just right" where you get that rich flavor and silky texture salmon has. I think the Alaskan and Pacific NW variety of Sockeye is so lean it has no leeway. It will over cook in a flash (literally seconds) it will go from succulent to hard which is why when I use salmon I prefer either this variety or the farm raised salmon from Claire Island or Scotland which are raised organically and in ocean pens rather than closed ponds. They're also much more consistent in texture and flavor which also makes them easier to work with and can be used in a variety of ways. I make them picatta style (pan roasted and finished with a butter, white wine, capers and herb sauce) much like veal or chicken picatta I just substitute salmon for veal or chicken.
Anyway I got a beautiful roast and sear on this piece not to mention prior to this fish going on I did some nice eggplant cut into "steaks" which showed gorgeous marks, and grilled some polenta which also came out beautifully grilled. Now these photos were taken off the Wolf but just as easily could have been either f my Genesis grills (one with CI grates and the other with the heavy SS 3/8" rod grates off my Summit)
In either case no muss no fuss, no sticking beautiful roasted/grilled flavor wonderful to look at and eat. I just see no reason to bother with things I find to be questionable in value when I can do this. Yes I do have to keep my grill insides a little cleaner to avoid the flare up you can get when cooking some things like chicken, or say a well marbled piece of meat, but hell I even cook bacon without incident. I don't need special tools to flip my foods, no worry about scraping off the anodized coating or having it get "etched" just simple spatulas and tongs or other IMO gimmicky items like this https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00KUJCH66/tvwb-20
Anyway I got a beautiful roast and sear on this piece not to mention prior to this fish going on I did some nice eggplant cut into "steaks" which showed gorgeous marks, and grilled some polenta which also came out beautifully grilled. Now these photos were taken off the Wolf but just as easily could have been either f my Genesis grills (one with CI grates and the other with the heavy SS 3/8" rod grates off my Summit)
In either case no muss no fuss, no sticking beautiful roasted/grilled flavor wonderful to look at and eat. I just see no reason to bother with things I find to be questionable in value when I can do this. Yes I do have to keep my grill insides a little cleaner to avoid the flare up you can get when cooking some things like chicken, or say a well marbled piece of meat, but hell I even cook bacon without incident. I don't need special tools to flip my foods, no worry about scraping off the anodized coating or having it get "etched" just simple spatulas and tongs or other IMO gimmicky items like this https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00KUJCH66/tvwb-20
BFletcher
TVWBB Honor Circle
I honestly do not understand why you continue to try and beat the dead horse on this discussion. There is no one right grate; it is simply a matter of personal taste. You have good friends on here but you criticize their personal preference. If you have no interest in the GG then I can respect that and would in no way attempt to steer you otherwise, just as others are not attempting to change your mind. I am happy for you that you are well-satisfied with your personal selections
Tony P in Florida
TVWBB Fan
I'll chime in with a few points.
I'm not here to defend grillgrates, per se, since I just ordered a set and have not used them yet. But I watched a lot of videos and I saw the results
I did not buy grillgrates for the sear marks. I have stainless steel grates on my current Weber gasser. I had porcelain enameled cast-iron on my previous weber gasser... And was always happy with the diamond pattern sear marks on steaks.
But I was in the market for a griddle. And the options are essentially carbon steel, or pre-seasoned cast-iron. I did not want the porcelain enameled version that Weber sells for the Genesis 2. And knowing how I did get a little bit of rust forming on my current pre-seasoned cast iron Pizza Pan that I use in my kamado (I got rid of the rust, there's a pain), I wanted something low maintenance and rustproof.
So I just bought four panels of grillgrates. I might use them on occasion for grill marks, but I have every intention of using these upside down so I have a flat top inside my weber (will replace 2 of my SS grates). And to get that Milliard reaction to meats that Meathead at amazingribs.com is so fond of. As am I.
Are they cheaper to make than stainless steel grates and cast iron grates? I'm not sure. But I can see why the grill companies are not building their own. They are going with what is tried and tested. And plus, they don't want to retool their manufacturing when they don't have to. I think the manufacturers would have to redo the engineering on their Fireboxes because grillgrates, when used for the entire surface, traps more heat in the Firebox.
I'm not going to use them all of the time. But it's nice to have options.
-T