Soaking chunks - Chris, I respectfully disagree


 
R

Ron Hunter

TVWBB Member
On March 10 I was asking about dry smoke wood..."I've noticed that my smoked meat has been having less and less smoke flavor..." In deference to Chris, I tried my own experiment. I use my bandsaw to size my chunks to a thickness of approximately one inch.

Using a moisture meter, I found all of my old cut pieces ranged from 5 to 9% moisture. I soaked these same chunks (cut cross-grain) for about 30 hours. Saturday, I removed them from the water and placed them in the sun for the excess water to dry. About 3 hours later I checked them with the meter. They were ranging from 19 to 24%. Then I cut them in half and took the readings from the "inside" of the chunk. I cut about 5 chunks in half, the inside readings were 16 to 20%. All of these had dried and none showed the wet borders as shown in Chris' photos.

Now for the proof - I smoked 3 chickens, hi-heat,in 3 hours using the re-hydrated blocks. The results were excellent.

Usually my chunks have a surface measurement of 3" x 4" with a thickness of at least one inch.

When I next do a butt smoke, I'll probably soak the wood for two days. But the best is this (1) I can still use my old smoke wood and (2) soaking hardwood does make a difference.
 
How long would that extra moisture take to burn off in a 225F to 300F environment? My guess would be not very long to make it worth the time nor effort to soak the chunks. Also, who knows if water takes away the wood's flavor. Just like if you soak a peace of rubbed meat, the rub and flavor will come off.
 
All I know is the results were exceptionally better than when the wood wasn't soaked. Also, I imagine most wood bought on-line or seasoned is around the 20-25% mark. At least, that's what I've read.

I'll keep experimenting to see if there is continued improvement. Before it was so bad my wife was commenting there wasn't a smoke flavor. I almost over-smoked the chicken yesterday - something I've thought was impossible with cherry.

Anyway - one try - I'm batting 100%. I'll keep you posted regarding subsequent smokes.

Regarding whether the water removes the wood's flavor - I didn't notice that happening - but if you're concerned, use the soaking water in the water pan.
 
i don't believe in soaking chunks. i don't think most wood will absorb much and i'm not liking excess turning into soot. if the wood is really old then maybe. but for sure, do what works for you and makes you happy. actually, its just to darn much trouble to me to be doing that.
 
With all due respect, Ron, you had my eyebrows raised in interest with what you were doing until I read your statement:

"One try - I'm batting 100%."

One attempt with a 100% batting average isn't enough to come on to the board, challenge the owner, and thump yer chest.

Seriously. I'm not saying I disagree with what you did and what your results might have been because it merits further study. What I'm saying is you ran your test once, claimed it was superior and then jumped on here to tell everyone. That's not a study. The number of variables to consider are too many to number so I won't go into it here, but again, "One try - I'm batting 100%" just doesn't cut it with me and I would guess many others.
 
I didn't have access to a moisture meter when I made that video, only my senses of sight and touch. There's probably a more scientific to determine this.

The more interesting issue to me is that you're not getting enough smoke flavor from dry wood to the extent that your wife says she can't taste the smoke. Usually the problem is that people get too much smoke flavor. You've got the opposite problem.

Regards,
Chris
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
The more interesting issue to me is that you're not getting enough smoke flavor from dry wood to the extent that your wife says she can't taste the smoke. Usually the problem is that people get too much smoke flavor. You've got the opposite problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So...what would we suggest if not getting enough smoke flavor was the complaint? Other than using more wood, of course.
 
To have a bunch of billowing smoke is not desirable. Going after “blue smoke” requires the fire to be hot enough for a slower/cleaner burn. If you are burning at a temp that is hot enough for this the moister content of the chunk seems negligible. That fire is hot enough to dry that out fairly quick. Want more smoke add more wood throughout the duration of the cook, and/or consider the wood of choice. Try mesquite and see if you have any issues with smokiness.

good luck,

gary
 
Michael M. I can't disagree with you. That why I provided FULL DISCLOSURE of the test. I also said I will continue the tests - In fact - until a still decent supply of dry cherry is used up it will be continued unless the results start going south. As an auditor, I'm somewhat familar with the use of stat's. One test is a start - but I've seen similar topics enough to know there is an interest in it on this board. Others may want to try their own test and report their results.

Regarding your comment - "One attempt with a 100% batting average isn't enough to come on to the board, challenge the owner, and thump yer chest." This isn't the place to start a war regarding comments but if you want I can oblige! Maybe next time read for intent and not what you what to read into it. Chris if in anyway you feel slighted - I apologize!

What prompted me to try this was "timothy"leaving this post from my topic "Smoke wood too dry?"
I consider smoke wood as a spice. And just like any spice that has sat on the storeroom shelves for years, it will loose some or a lot of flavor compared to a fresher product like Penzey's. Smokinlicous makes a great point on Moisture content and they also have a Moisture table to check if your smoke wood is acceptable for re-hydration.

I went to the site - checked the chart - bought a moisture meter - soaked - smoked and reported the results on that ONE smoke for chickens.

I've used so much of the dry wood before a turkey's skin would be black. Little smoke flavor - decent smell when deboned, frozen, thawed and used. I also used much more wood on my last butt smoke. IMHO, just adding more wood does not work - in my situation.

Nothing tried - nothing gained.

Ron
 
I've dabbled a bit with statistics in the past. As far as I can see, none of the two posts in question will have any statistic significance whatsoever, but I can't see the problem here, as none has stated that the simple tests would have one.
I think this soaking- thing is interesting. Keep on testing, please!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ron Hunter:
Smokinlicous makes a great point on Moisture content and they also have a Moisture table to check if your smoke wood is acceptable for re-hydration. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I checked out that site. I am a strong believer in people doing what they like and what makes sense to them. "To each his own," as they say.

As for me, I've never had a problem with not getting enough smoke flavor. I go through smoke wood very slowly and have some varieties that are very old. They seem to work OK for me, but maybe I'm just more sensitive to smoke wood flavor than other people. So I am not going to consult moisture charts and buy a moisture sensor and start worrying about the % moisture content of my smoke wood and rehydrate my wood.

These are just my experiences and opinions. YMMV.

Regards,
Chris
 
Out of curosity, Ron, could you throw some of the soaked and non-soaked chunks into the oven at a high temp and after say five or 10 minutes take moisture readings? I'd like to know if there's really a moisture difference after a short period of time. Coals are usually at a temp of 800 to 1000 degrees so you'd want the oven as hot as possible.
 
I soak my wood chips, when I'm using my charcoal grill, but never wood chunks, when using the WSM. I know that Steven Raichlen, likes to soak is wood chuncks, on his BBQ shows, but, I never really found that I need to soak my wood chunks. I bury some wood in the charcoal, as well as throw a couple of wood chunks, on top of the light coals. Works every time for me
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. Good subject conversation.....
 
This is an interesting "additional" thread on this subject, but the variables being discounted are disturbing
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. Ron, you said you use "chunks" you cut yourself that at 1" thick. I also cut my own, and 1" is not a chunk, it's a slab. What Chris showed in his video was a chunk.

Also, I think he said he soaked his chunks overnight, where you soaked your slab pieces for 30 hours. Big difference! Chris' pic showed maybe a 1/4" moisture penetration where you apparently may have gotten more but you also had more time and a thinner substrate (more water per wood volume).

And now I'll go back to my statement in another thread that the wood is dead. It may absorb water, but it is not reconstituted. That may be a moot point, but I think your % water is just that "% water" while the moisture content of drying wood is "moisture content" -- the cells contain the water.

As for whether or not the water is removing "flavor" from the wood while soaking, who knows? Maybe what the water is removing is simply colors or dirt or tannins or whatever and maybe you don't want that anyway. In the end, you are still burning WOOD.

Also, there may be something to the process of burning large chunks vs. smaller slab pieces. I've noticed that chunks appear to produce good smoke -- small pieces, not so good. But more small pieces will also produce more smoke -- though they still "smolder" less.

What does matter is what appears to work for each of you. Since some of my "chunks" are also cut from slabs, I'll also try soaking for an extended period and see what I think. But I haven't truly noticed an issue -- wood is wood. If some is less smoky, I personally don't believe water is the reason.

Rich
 
Raichlen has made beaucoup bucks with his books and shows but he doesn't always know what he's talking about. Whether soaking wood slabs for 30 hours makes a difference I don't know. I don't soak anything - I could not be bothered for one, and I virtually never plan cooks that far in advance - not chips or chunks. Chips, like pellets, I put in foil pouches - no soaking needed even if it was beneficial - and chunks I cut small. I disagree with Rich (though I'm with him on his other points) that small pieces don't produce good smoke. I never use 'fist-sized' chunks (for a number of reasons); I alway cut a chunk that size into 5 or 6 pieces and that's what I use. I get good smoke, no major combustion issues.

It is, perhaps, an experiment worth exploring if one feels the need as Ron does. Lack of smoke flavor has not been my experience however.
 
Personally I've never soaked and have never had an issue with lack of smoke flavor. If soaking made each piece of wood produce smoke more efficiently I suppose that wood be nice, but I don't use enough smoke wood to be bothered by the purchase price, so taking the effort to soak would have to add some significant efficiency for me to ever consider doing it.

Questions:

why cut the smoke wood at all? I just toss it in whatever size it comes in UNLESS it is enormous for some reason

what is this "blue smoke" I keep hearing about? I always get my chimney going to the point the flames are shooting out the top a bit, dump on the unlit coal and smoke wood for MM, or dump and let the unburnt ones get going a bit if grilling then add the smoke wood. Then throw on the meat. Yes, there is some billowing. Is that bad?

Thanks!
 
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