Smoke Absorption


 
T

tmfast

TVWBB Super Fan
I know meat stops absorbing smoke at a certain temperature.
I have always thrown my meat on cold, at low temp to get the best ring I can for at least the 1st hour or so.
Are there any scientists here that can tell me at what temperature every meat in the animal family peaks for smoke absorption “ baby back, spare ribs, pork and beef”, “brisket flats”,” Beer can chicken”, “Turkey legs” whole turkey”, ect??
 
(quote)Stogie is right on, because of smokering, it is thought that the meat is absorbing smoke which is not the case. Smokering is a chemical reaction to smoke and that process stops when the meat reaches 140?. Smoke can be layed on a piece of meat as long as smoke is present in the cook.(quote)
Copied this from an old thread
 
Originally posted by Dave/G:
(quote)Stogie is right on, because of smokering, it is thought that the meat is absorbing smoke which is not the case. Smokering is a chemical reaction to smoke and that process stops when the meat reaches 140?. Smoke can be layed on a piece of meat as long as smoke is present in the cook.(quote)
Copied this from an old thread
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Can't really add much too this old post by Stogie. I think you have smokering and smoke absorption mixed up. Also the meat really doesn't absorb smoke, the smoke flavor lays/forms on the outside/bark of the meat. Yes the smokering stops forming, once 140º is reached. Yes for a better smokering, the colder the meat, the better the ring. And yes the meat wil take on smoke as long as you are applying it.
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anybody know why the ring stops at 140*? I understand that the ring is a product of bacterial action and 140*, being effective sterilizer, kills this bacteria. But if this is the case I'd like to know more.

edit: the one post mentions that the myoglobin starts to denature at 140*.

the bacteria are also mentioned as being active 40-140*. I still think we could better our rings by figuring out a way to prolong the life of these guys. It just seems like putting cold meat on a warmed smoker will nuke 'em before they ever get started. wouldn't it make more sense to let the meat warm some so the bacteria are active and then toss it on a cold smoker? maybe the bacteria aren't the limiting factor.
 
I once saw on a BBQ show that continuing to smoke after say about 6 hours the smoke can produce a bitter taste.
 
AFAIK, bacteria has nothing to do with smokering formation, or with sustained pink color in non-Q'd meats, like the pink one often sees in confit.

When meat's temp rises quickly, the pigment molecules are denaturing along with the muscle proteins. They react with each other and the pigment turns brown. If the meat is heated slowly so that it takes time for temps to get high enough to start denaturing myoglobin and cytochromes (which withstand higher temps than other muscle proteins) then these other proteins finish denaturing first and react with each other. The pigments stay red because they have few other proteins to react with them.

In the case of Q, burning organic fuels results in trace NO2 (nitrogen dioxide), which dissolves at the surface and forms HNO2 (nitrous acid). In this form diffusion is more possible. As diffusion into the muscle occurs it converts to NO (nitric oxide) and this reacts with myoglobin to form a stable red molecule.
 
I once saw on a BBQ show that continuing to smoke after say about 6 hours the smoke can produce a bitter taste.
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Not necessarily. It depends on the quantity generated during those 6 hours -- or during 1, 2 or 3 or 12.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
AFAIK, bacteria has nothing to do with smokering formation, or with sustained pink color in non-Q'd meats, like the pink one often sees in confit.

When meat's temp rises quickly, the pigment molecules are denaturing along with the muscle proteins. They react with each other and the pigment turns brown. If the meat is heated slowly so that it takes time for temps to get high enough to start denaturing myoglobin and cytochromes (which withstand higher temps than other muscle proteins) then these other proteins finish denaturing first and react with each other. The pigments stay red because they have few other proteins to react with them.

In the case of Q, burning organic fuels results in trace NO2 (nitrogen dioxide), which dissolves at the surface and forms HNO2 (nitrous acid). In this form diffusion is more possible. As diffusion into the muscle occurs it converts to NO (nitric oxide) and this reacts with myoglobin to form a stable red molecule.
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I had to read this a couple times to comprehend but that is the best explanation I have ever read. Bravo!
 
When meat's temp rises quickly, the pigment molecules are denaturing along with the muscle proteins. They react with each other and the pigment turns brown. If the meat is heated slowly so that it takes time for temps to get high enough to start denaturing myoglobin and cytochromes (which withstand higher temps than other muscle proteins) then these other proteins finish denaturing first and react with each other. The pigments stay red because they have few other proteins to react with them.
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you see bacteria mentioned a bit in association with ring formation. Your info sheds new light on the subject, certainly. Lets see if it translates into improved rings.

I kind of gave up on trying to max my ring as one of the variables that I try to control. I noticed my best rings come from the meat that was on the wsm the soonest after dumping my lit on my unlit. The fire was very smokey at that point and I felt it may been contributing to a bad smoke flavor. So I chose better flavor over looks.

I once saw on a BBQ show that continuing to smoke after say about 6 hours the smoke can produce a bitter taste.
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that seems odd to me. I thought bitter smoke resulted from a smoldering fire (incomplete cumbustion) or creosote condensation, two things that stop once the fire gets hot. I would think your more likely to get a bitter taste in the first few minutes when the fire is still getting up to temp and your meat is cold.
 
I had to read this a couple times to comprehend but that is the best explanation I have ever read. Bravo!
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I took me 3x.
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I agree, top notch info. Its crazy how you can read and read and nothing really makes sense. Mr Kruger's info always seems grounded in actual science so its impossible to deny.
 
You're better than me, I had to read it sllooowwwllyyy three or four times to get it. Even then I'm still not sure.

If I read it correctly then putting the (cold)meat in while the smoker is cold and coming up to temperature would help to slow the process and create a better ring? Or did I miss something.

Russ
 
You didn't miss a thing.

j-- Bitter smoke can occur from poor combustion. It can also occur when smoke is applied for too long.

Use less smoke period, even less smoke over a longer period, and/or light your wood while you light your chimney so that excess moisture, etc., is driven off before you assemble and add the meat.
 
Man I love this forum,
Thank you all for the education. This is great.
Good to see "K Kruger" chime in.
 
j-- Bitter smoke can occur from poor combustion. It can also occur when smoke is applied for too long.
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curious. I'll keep an eye out for this. Probably won't be an issue for me since I'm slowly easing back on my smoke. My family isnt too big on smoke and in comps, its surprising, but the judges up here aren't looking for smoke.

I got a comment card for my chicken that said "too smokey" and I didn't even use any wood. I had thrown it on a wsm that was cooking some ribs that I was pretty much done with so it was just cooked over left over fuel.

And I was a recent comp where the current kcbs national points leader was cooking and he only cooks over kingsford, no wood at all! at least my ribs beat his so all is right with the world.

don't mean to change topic, mid-tread, but I though it was an interesting anecdote.
 
I'm not sure that judges anywhere are looking for much smoke. The comp people I know don't use wood for chicken, and not much for red meats.

I think of smoke as a spice -- or a spice blend. It needs to work within the matrix of the rub, the meat, the sauce, if any, and be complementary.
 
J, there are certain meats that can take a lot of smoke and some that can't. Poultry,fish and ribs need light smoke. Brisket and pork butt can take a lot. I learned the hard way about over smoking ribs. I love the smoke flavor but this was even too much for me.
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I'm not sure that judges anywhere are looking for much smoke. The comp people I know don't use wood for chicken, and not much for red meats.

I think of smoke as a spice -- or a spice blend. It needs to work within the matrix of the rub, the meat, the sauce, if any, and be complementary.
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Yeah, just getting the hang of this competing thing. our scores increase every time we abandon some thing we find appealing for lowest common denominator stuff (no smoke, no heat, too much sweet...). at least we're smart enough to figure this stuff out, and are always improving our game.

my rationalization is that most people around here are only exposed to bbq at places like applebee's. good bbq dining around here, can be found but you got to know were to look, and I'll bet most judges have never eaten at these places.

I hear you on the spice idea, balance is good. I've moved my wood under my coals (instead of on top). My thinking is that I get better combustion since the gas released from the wood has to pass through hot coals, and a more subtle smoke flavor as a result. it seems to work.
 
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