Sandblaster painted inside my cook box....what do I do now?


 

Ed Pinnell

TVWBB Guru
She was a trooper to help you with that. Did you turn that back into a running truck?
No, ultimately my wife traded it for something more useful, a garage door opener. Actually, I think she sold it and we bought a garage door opener with some of the money. That was about 4 years later after we had moved twice, had our first child, and finally bought a home. Lost track of the rear doors for a year or so along the way (long story). You make all these plans and then life happens, right?
 
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Steve Hoch

TVWBB Pro
Yes, I can see where that killed the project. The next grill I rehab I'm definitely going to strip and repaint the firebox myself. It seems getting anyone else involved just causes more headaches.
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Both of those video's were Hilarious. Like I said on my other thread here.......I have to take ownership of this screw up.....I assumed he knew not to paint the inside of the box....and thus its mostly my fault for not clearly communicating. It has taken me three cook boxes to get an idea of how to work with this blaster......so if I can swallow my pride and some cash.....all of the next blasts from now going forward should be perfect.
 

Jon Tofte

TVWBB Hall of Fame
Jim, I think your approach is the right one. Take a little hit now in the hopes of having a good long-term relationship. I think maybe I would do my own painting from now on ;) !
 

DanHoo

TVWBB Wizard
My only thought is to make sure the removal of the paint does not do damage.

I'm thinking that removing the new fresh paint should??? be easier than the carbon of 20 years so less intense blasting would get the paint off.
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
My thought process was that after a long break from doing resto's that I would let someone else do the dirty work which will make my grills look even better......I will have them ready faster.......I will do less of the tough stuff and more of the fun stuff.......and only take a small hit on the profit end. Painting can be tricky.....for me it comes down to cold temps here in Va shut down my outdoor painting. The other part of the puzzle is the whole .....remove all the paint.....or paint over the OEM finish that had chips and end up with a not so great looking resto.
Yes my biggest concern is that these boxes are 20 years old and thin in certain places......another sand blast by an angry blaster could do them in......I will be testing my wire wheel on them this evening but I have removed fresh paint before and its not fun......that stuff really sticks!!!
 

Dave in KC

TVWBB Wizard
My first smoker rehab about 15 years ago (original Oklahoma Joe offset)
was a rust-coated mess when I got it. I grinded, sanded, repainted w/
the High Heat Rustoleum grill paint inside and outside.
Burned off, seasoned, and had over 100 cooks on it over about a 5-year span,
without a single issue.
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Thank you for your input.......i guess the fact that it was your grill vs i am flipping this grill .......personally i wouldnt eat from this painted cook box......so i cant expect anyone else to either.
 

Jon Tofte

TVWBB Hall of Fame
I know what you are saying but woukd you feel the same way if it was heated up a number of times and the paint long cured like in Dave’s story. I am not advocating painting the insides, but I wonder if we make a blanket statement about harmful fumes without any technical support. I know there are fumes at first, but after hours of heat and then cool downs, is that still true?
 

Ed Pinnell

TVWBB Guru
Tough call, JimV, tough call. The problem is, if you do the burn-off at home, is that going to detract from the overall appearance and cost you on a sale? Or do you chalk it off to experience, take your lumps and move on, hopefully make up for any shortfall on the next one?

Nobody ever said the road of life for a rehabber is paved with bricks of gold. I don't know why or how you guys do it. You have my respect. I'm here to learn from you guys with all the scars. Much props, amigo!
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
I tell ya what......this forum is filled with a real great bunch of people. I like the rational thinking and bouncing around possible options. Soooooooooo this is what we know so far..... I do know that he used Rusto High Heat roll on....and he sprayed it on in his booth and did a fabulous job. The paint is applied perfectly which is another reason I really want to build a relationship with this guy. This afternoon I took the softer of the two wire wheels the 4" to the inside of the box at full speed of my Harbor Freight el cheapo grinder and all it did was dull the finish of the paint.....the blaster man may have cured this paint in his fancy paint booth. That said when I drove the boxes home from his shop the fumes were so strong in my truck that it made my eyes water. I could have taken a more aggressive paint stripping wheel to this paint but decided not to. My options are down to this.......
1. Call the blaster.....tell him I screwed up and didnt give him the info he needed to complete the job the way I personally wanted it and to ask him to blast em again on my dime.
2. Sell the grills looking fan freakin- tastic but with a disclaimer......I would hate to put a disclaimer on a grill that I am shooting for max market value on.......but I could just educate the buyer. I would assume the majority of the buyers would be scared away but there will be many Like Dave in KC that actually want it that way. I would advise them to do several high temp burn offs and then to season the grill after that to lock in or seal the inside of the grill.

Now Dave mentioned he has cooked on his over 100 times " without an issue." That is very good news but there is no real way of knowing if this may have affected Dave's health in any way and lets not twist this comment around...so I would rather not use Dave as the example.....lets say John consumer instead. If you have ever gone on the Rustoleum site and read the ingredients of this paint you will clearly see it is some real nasty stuff.......which is why we where respirators when we paint with this stuff or at least I do. Could this paint be considered poison? I mean....if u drank it....whoa u would be screwed big time!

Do I think this paint can be cured.....burned off.......sealed.....well maybe not 100% but my answer would be yes. After several high temp cooks including some greasy foods I believe you could achieve a coating over the paint that would block most of but not all of the off gassing.

Check out this theory..............any of you ever try to apply drywall mud over a painter surface while making a repair at your house? Did u notice that mud doesnt like to stick to a painted surface? Why? Because the paint still has chemical properties after all these years of being stuck on your wall......and still wants to breath and off gas. Now I better stop there because I am not even close to an expert on chemicals or paint.....I went to YouTube University for goodness sakes!
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Ed your right.......the rehab hobby has to be about more than just the money.....cause it takes a lot to bring one of these ole classics back to life. Sure its nice to score $100 or $150 but it doesnt come close to the time and effort put into the resto. Another local resto guy that I know is always telling me to stop making show pieces....he says they are not going in museums and I am not making any profit by doing it my way. Well he is right...and he sells a ton of those dirty ole Webers that function very well.......but I am just not wired to send one out the door unless she is a beauty :)
Hmmmm gold bricks........me like :)
 

Ed Pinnell

TVWBB Guru
JimV, FWIW, I think you should talk it over with your guy, definitely, kick around the options. It's a miscommunication, that's all, nobody's fault, and go from there. Get his input on "selling it as is with full transparency", not necessarily a disclaimer where you are selling it as is where is with no recourse...I don't know that you could ever do that, as much as you care about the quality of work you do and the way you sweat the details...but be willing to work with the buyer so he feels good about buying from you, like always. I like the idea of selling it as is, seeing if it will sell with those stipulations, and if you have buyers walking away, then switch to Plan B (whatever that turns out to be).
 

Dave in KC

TVWBB Wizard
I do not recommend painting the insides of any grill.
I do not FULLY disapprove it either. I am not a chemist,
and the lawyers at Rustoleum have left open some
room for interpretation on this issue.

Sorry for the pic... hard to snap a pic of a round can .....

WXinpUJl.jpg


It is quite clear... don't paint grates, or any surface
in direct contact with food.
"Do not expose to open flames." This is vague.
At some point distance has to come into play, right?
I would also think temperature would have to be an
issue also. The inside of the cooking chamber on
my offset after burn off was never above 300 degrees.
It was not exposed to any direct flame, as the flames
were inside the firebox, not the cooking chamber.
This would be different than the inside of a gasser.
There is lots of other legal mumbo jumbo listed below
the bottom of the pic, but it all seems to apply to the
application of paint, and not the use of the painted
product afterwards.

I have never, and will never spray the inside of a flipper.
I am very comfortable in saying that I simply do not know
enough one way or the other to feel comfortable in doing so.
Also, as is perfectly illustrated here ... it opens up a whole can
of worms. Much better to simply have a customer refuse
to buy your grill because they think its unappealing on the
inside than to think they may be poisoned by your work.

JimV. - for what its worth - I would have taken care of this when
picking up the fire box. I would have questioned why the inside was
painted to begin with, and had him blast the inside again whether it
was on my dime or his. A nice shiny blasted box will sell quickly,
without any of the bs a painted box might stir up.
 
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THyde

TVWBB Wizard
I would "burn it in" and not worry too much
I'd do the same thing. I am a chemist. If you heat that up to the hottest it can get, with the lid closed, let it go like that for 45 minutes, I bet it'll be so cured and caked on that there would never be a problem. You won't be able to smell anything anymore, any vapors that might come out of the paint will come out under those conditions.
 

LMichaels

TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Yeah really I think the warnings on the can are because they don't want the paint to "fail". Once burned in/off pretty sure anything volatile will be gone
 

THyde

TVWBB Wizard
Plus, as you've seen, your sandblasting guy paints the inside of a lot of grills. I think we with Weberitis are very concerned with "Weber integrity" and they chose not to paint the insides. My opinion as a chemist is that the volatiles will be completely evaporated under high heat conditions, leaving only solids behind. Any solvents used in paint have lower boiling points than water, so think about that. Would you be worried that water would remain on the inside of the cook box after heating it for 45 minutes? Volatiles evaporate more quickly at lower temperatures, and then they are gone. Plus, you're not putting food up against the paint. I'd heat them up good, let them cook off the volatiles, then if you wanted to be extra careful you can scrub the insides out with soap and water and do one more heat cycle. That's what I would do. It's not NSF food grade, but food does not contact those surfaces. Plus, many grill manufacturers paint the insides anyway. I'd cook it off, clean it up and leave them like that. No need for any warnings to customers or anything. Plus they look better that way actually and you can still sell at a premium. The high heat paint is a bonus here, because it should withstand the high temperatures and not crack or peel, and once there is a good coat of "seasoning" on it, that paint will be locked in.

This is my opinion.
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Wowza! Good mornin' folks. Looks like we have heard from the panel minus " The Bruce " .....and a verdict is in.
Larry usually takes the conservative safety route....always warning us to be safe especially with gas fittings so I am surprised to see him on the burn it off team and that sways me in that direction a bit. Then TH drops a bomb that he actually is a chemist :) and is on the burn it off and clean it off team. Of course this is just forum chatter amongst us ....... I was also thinking that I have seen outdoor playground style grills painted inside and out.....hmmmmm. My stance as a freak is still the same....personally I dont wanna eat from a closed cooking device that is off gassing into my food. None of us do.....it just comes down to what a few high heat burn offs will accomplish and if it will make the grills safe to use.

Dave thanks for the pic and input.......it does seem like in the instructions on the can that they are just implying the paint will fail if under direct flames....vs this stuff will killllllll youuuuu. :) I mentioned before maybe in my other post that I did mention this to the blaster when I picked up the grill. I said fantastic job but your not supposed to paint the inside of the box.....he said sure u are its not a cooking surface.....I replied ya but the paint off gases blah blah blah......and he replied ya but only for the first few cooks and he started to get more and more quiet realizing either I wasnt happy or he didnt want to incriminate himself.........or he already finished the job and had my money and just wanted me to go away. I could have pushed at that moment but I just decided that maybe he knew what he was talking about and loaded them up.

I will call Rustoleum this morning and that will sway my final decision.

Thank you all!!!
 

 

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