Q220 Flame level...


 
Bumping an old thread here, but thanks for the torch tip cleaner suggestion.

Had a wild hair about immersing the cast iron grates in hot oil, on occasions, to prevent rust. Does that sound doable?

By the way, are these grates porcelain coated?
 
Yes, the grates are porcelain coated. They are better than some of Weber's other porcelain coated cast iron, but eventually do start to chip.

I am not an expert on seasoning, but if you can get any rust off, you can season just like it was raw cast iron. I have always coated with Crisco and put in the oven. Your idea might work well, too.

If it gets to a point that pieces are chipping off with any regularity, I am afraid that you probably are looking at a new set of grates. Removing ALL the porcelain coating sounds like a good idea, but in practice is a pretty hard, time consuming job.
 
Yah, once the coating wears off, they start to rust and that makes the chipping and flaking all the worse. Plus the fact that the grates are much less thick than the Genesis grates, they rust and crack pretty quick.

There are a couple outfits making aftermarket grates that look pretty good and they are significantly cheaper than regular Weber grates: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B07DMFJYVT/tvwb-20
 
I can think of two reasons. First, they are prettier and probably help to prevent food sticking. It takes a while on CI grates to get a good seasoning so that stuff won't stick so bad.
Second, I think it helps prevent rust which would probably be an issue with how the average griller treats their CI grates. Also, these grates are not as bulky as regular grates and will corrode to a point they will break fairly quickly unless they are cared for.
 
On the older Q's they used a different enameling process and they were MUCH better but now as they cheapen everything they make to sub par quality levels they've gone to a simple top coat process on the enamel. They're fine as long as you don't subject them to hard scraping or sudden temp changes i.e. putting frozen burger patties on a screaming hot grill.
 
Fired up the Q after a winter in the garage and got preeetty much nothing - wouldn't even break 200. Found my old thread while searching for a solution!

I took the whole regulator off and apart last night and gave it a good cleaning and soaking. The burner tube is still pretty much new from last year.

If the clean reg and the burner tube don't get me where I want, I'm going to start looking at changing out the orifice and possible going with an adjustable regulator. Looks like these things are stepped all the way down to 1/2 psi.

Anyone done any of that?
 
My guess is you are vapor locking the regulator by starting your grill improperly. I certainly wouldn't start changing out the orifice. If you don't use 1lb cans of propane on the grill, you could simply use a regular bulk tank hose w/regulator hooked directly to the grill. That Is how I have mine set up on my deck. But, before you start buying new parts and modifying existing parts, make sure you are starting your grill properly.
If you are unfamiliar with the correct starting sequence, then someone will post it up if you ask.
 
Bruce said:
My guess is you are vapor locking the regulator by starting your grill improperly. I certainly wouldn't start changing out the orifice. If you don't use 1lb cans of propane on the grill, you could simply use a regular bulk tank hose w/regulator hooked directly to the grill. That Is how I have mine set up on my deck. But, before you start buying new parts and modifying existing parts, make sure you are starting your grill properly.
If you are unfamiliar with the correct starting sequence, then someone will post it up if you ask.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm really not trying to be a dick, but all of this is previously covered in the thread. I've been using this grill for a long, long time. I've used a 220, then a 2200, then a 1000 all new out of the box and the 220 and the 2200 after a few years of service. I've used 1 and 20 lb tanks on all of them with Weber and Brinkman and other adapter hoses.

Fuel flow on these is fine in factory new state, but the 4 elements that go into it (regulator, orifice, burner tubes and burner vent holes) are all very, very small and seriously prone to constriction in one way or another.

I'm not sure that you can start the grill improperly when using a 1lb tank. And how stupid is the idea that you can "start the grill wrong" in the first place. I've been using propane fired grills for 25 years and that doesn't exist with many others.

And this most recent problem was with a 1lb tank. And the regulator was filthy.

So it's probably back to normal. But normal on these things is really just fine - but 45btu/sq in isn't going to be burning up the airwaves anytime soon. There are plenty of grills out there that put out double the heat and I'm looking to find out if anyone else has experience improving the performance of their Q.
 
Matt:
I am not trying to be condescending. I didn't go back through the whole thread, it is pretty long. I wrongly assumed you had just added onto an ongoing and meandering thread.

It sounds like you are covering all the possible causes. But, I have owned probably 15 Q grills and only found one bad regulator on one of them. And it still worked fine, it just made a slight "fluttering" sound when in use which is not uncommon. But, I have dealt with the vapor lock issue. It is a symptom of the new OPD on the 20lb bulk tanks. They are designed to detect a large leak and when you open them with the burners turned on or if you simply open them real quickly, they shut down flow thinking a massive leak has just occurred. But, no, it shouldn't happen with a 1lb container or if you don't turn your tank off between uses. I have experienced this on both Genesis grills and Q grills, but it seems to be a bigger issue with Q grills. Shutting down the burners, then shutting down the tank, disconnecting the hose from the tanks, waiting a minute or two, reconnecting the tank, then slowly opening the valve on the tank, then turning on the burner and lighting it always fixed the low flame issue unless it was something else such as plugged burner holes.

Drilling out the orifice hole will likely boost your heat output and depending on how much you ream it out, it could be a lot. The one to ask on doing that kind of mod is probably Larry Micheals. He has some good experience with doing that and can lead you in the right direction.

How hot does the lid thermometer say your grill is getting when fully heated up?
 
Bruce said:
Matt:
I am not trying to be condescending. I didn't go back through the whole thread, it is pretty long. I wrongly assumed you had just added onto an ongoing and meandering thread.

It sounds like you are covering all the possible causes. But, I have owned probably 15 Q grills and only found one bad regulator on one of them. And it still worked fine, it just made a slight "fluttering" sound when in use which is not uncommon. But, I have dealt with the vapor lock issue. It is a symptom of the new OPD on the 20lb bulk tanks. They are designed to detect a large leak and when you open them with the burners turned on or if you simply open them real quickly, they shut down flow thinking a massive leak has just occurred. But, no, it shouldn't happen with a 1lb container or if you don't turn your tank off between uses. I have experienced this on both Genesis grills and Q grills, but it seems to be a bigger issue with Q grills. Shutting down the burners, then shutting down the tank, disconnecting the hose from the tanks, waiting a minute or two, reconnecting the tank, then slowly opening the valve on the tank, then turning on the burner and lighting it always fixed the low flame issue unless it was something else such as plugged burner holes.

Drilling out the orifice hole will likely boost your heat output and depending on how much you ream it out, it could be a lot. The one to ask on doing that kind of mod is probably Larry Micheals. He has some good experience with doing that and can lead you in the right direction.

How hot does the lid thermometer say your grill is getting when fully heated up?
Click to expand...

No problem, I appreciate the input. Only reason I know what was previously in the thread is that I happened to start it. Sorry for being overly blunt.

As a general rule, mine stays attached to a 20lb tank. I open slowly, let is pressurize for a minute or two then open the burner and let it flow for a few moments before lighting. When I shut it off, I turn it off at the tank and then bleed the line.

Even with all of that and with a new burner tube I'm maxing out around 400 or so. I have more of a problem with the amount of time that it takes to get there and how slowly it recovers than the final temp. Compared to other similar grills the output of the Q series is, at best, borderline. Take, for example, this Coleman grill. 20,000 BTU over pretty much the same 289 sq in surface means nearly twice the cooking power.

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B07BLH19MX/tvwb-20

You can buy, pretty cheaply, other orifice sizes. Just mostly not sure where to start on it.

I know how much you contribute to this site, and know that I'm just popping in, so appreciate your help and insight.
 
As a general rule, mine stays attached to a 20lb tank. I open slowly, let is pressurize for a minute or two then open the burner and let it flow for a few moments before lighting. When I shut it off, I turn it off at the tank and then bleed the line.

You just solved your own problem but I think you were being pretty much over the top nasty with Bruce here. NEVER repeat NEVER bleed the line. This has been documented as the cause of issues from many places INCLUDING Weber themselves. ALWAYS turn the burner off FIRST than if you feel it necessary turn off the gas. When lighting than do the opposite. Turn on the gas, slooooowly than turn on the burner and light. The Q grills ESPECIALLY the Q1xxx and Q2xxx are particularly prone to the trouble you note because the regulator is so far from the tank. On a normal grill where the regulator is part of the tank fitting they're not particularly tricky but the Q is because of the unique arrangement. I recall WAY back when this thread was started this was noted but it seems with you vast experience using gas grills you chose to ignore people who actually KNEW what they were talking about when giving you their advice. Bruce is entirely correct in telling you you're starting the grill wrong. He may not be technically correct in calling it "vapor lock" as it's entirely impossible to vapor lock a vapor. But, what you're doing is causing the OPV to trip which it's designed to do if it senses a big slug of gas escaping suddenly (as in hitting that bled hose). Due to the large amounts of plastic in use on a Q I suspect also total BTU of these grills is kept rather conservative for a VERY good reason. Now, if you wanna open the orifice to try to get around your misoperation...............................hey who are we to tell you otherwise? Go with god on it.
 
LMichaels said:
As a general rule, mine stays attached to a 20lb tank. I open slowly, let is pressurize for a minute or two then open the burner and let it flow for a few moments before lighting. When I shut it off, I turn it off at the tank and then bleed the line.

You just solved your own problem but I think you were being pretty much over the top nasty with Bruce here. NEVER repeat NEVER bleed the line. This has been documented as the cause of issues from many places INCLUDING Weber themselves. ALWAYS turn the burner off FIRST than if you feel it necessary turn off the gas. When lighting than do the opposite. Turn on the gas, slooooowly than turn on the burner and light. The Q grills ESPECIALLY the Q1xxx and Q2xxx are particularly prone to the trouble you note because the regulator is so far from the tank. On a normal grill where the regulator is part of the tank fitting they're not particularly tricky but the Q is because of the unique arrangement. I recall WAY back when this thread was started this was noted but it seems with you vast experience using gas grills you chose to ignore people who actually KNEW what they were talking about when giving you their advice. Bruce is entirely correct in telling you you're starting the grill wrong. He may not be technically correct in calling it "vapor lock" as it's entirely impossible to vapor lock a vapor. But, what you're doing is causing the OPV to trip which it's designed to do if it senses a big slug of gas escaping suddenly (as in hitting that bled hose). Due to the large amounts of plastic in use on a Q I suspect also total BTU of these grills is kept rather conservative for a VERY good reason. Now, if you wanna open the orifice to try to get around your misoperation...............................hey who are we to tell you otherwise? Go with god on it.
Click to expand...

I was using a 1lb tank when I came here asking for help.

I already apologized to Bruce.

It was your statement previously on this thread that you disconnect the line every time that led me to start doing that.

Never mind. I'll figure it out on my own.
 
LMichaels said:
As a general rule, mine stays attached to a 20lb tank. I open slowly, let is pressurize for a minute or two then open the burner and let it flow for a few moments before lighting. When I shut it off, I turn it off at the tank and then bleed the line.

You just solved your own problem but I think you were being pretty much over the top nasty with Bruce here. NEVER repeat NEVER bleed the line. This has been documented as the cause of issues from many places INCLUDING Weber themselves. ALWAYS turn the burner off FIRST than if you feel it necessary turn off the gas. When lighting than do the opposite. Turn on the gas, slooooowly than turn on the burner and light. The Q grills ESPECIALLY the Q1xxx and Q2xxx are particularly prone to the trouble you note because the regulator is so far from the tank. On a normal grill where the regulator is part of the tank fitting they're not particularly tricky but the Q is because of the unique arrangement. I recall WAY back when this thread was started this was noted but it seems with you vast experience using gas grills you chose to ignore people who actually KNEW what they were talking about when giving you their advice. Bruce is entirely correct in telling you you're starting the grill wrong. He may not be technically correct in calling it "vapor lock" as it's entirely impossible to vapor lock a vapor. But, what you're doing is causing the OPV to trip which it's designed to do if it senses a big slug of gas escaping suddenly (as in hitting that bled hose). Due to the large amounts of plastic in use on a Q I suspect also total BTU of these grills is kept rather conservative for a VERY good reason. Now, if you wanna open the orifice to try to get around your misoperation...............................hey who are we to tell you otherwise? Go with god on it.
Click to expand...

And re-reading this, your comment on me being nasty is rich.
 
Matt: yep, when I say to close the tank and disconnect the hose and wait a minute or two, that is hopefully bleeding the line and resetting the OPD.
Also, I suggest that in the future that you turn off your burners before shutting the tank off. The fact that you burn off the gas in the hose is what leads to sudden rush of gas when you open the tank and to start the grill. Just shut the grill valves off and then shut the tank down after that.
Good luck and let us know if any of that helps.
 
Speaking of vapor lock (whatever that means), we used to manually fill propane tanks for our forklifts, and there were times, after reconnecting the tank to the lift, the engine would not start. We remedied that by unscrewing the hose on the tank and depressing the valve on the end to bleed the line. That usually fixed the starting problem.
 
Yep in the case of LP used like that it would be an air lock. It would eventually work itself out if you waited long enough and cranked the engine enough but, faster to simply bleed it off.
 
After all the back and forth about vapor lock or whatever, it was a bad regulator. Not even sure how we got off on vapor lock or OPD, because if you are getting up to 400, that's not the problem.

Took the regulator apart, cleaned it, put it back together and still the same old same old.

Went to buy a new one and they run $50. Why would I spend $50 on something that is pretty universally seen to be a problem? Not gonna do it. Bought a adjustable pressure regulator for $14 and hooked it up:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01J63DYI6/tvwb-20

Bingo. Makes all the difference in the world and is almost foolproof. If you turn the regulator adjustment up too much, the flame goes out as there isn't enough oxygen being fed in. Haven't messed around with it too much, but it massively improved the heating speed - and the recovery time - and was comfortably north of 500.
 
Matt: glad you got the problem solved. Does that red knob on the hose basically act as the burner valve knob?
 
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